Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

FutureGuy · 21-10-2014 01:44PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

That Berahinio is some talent in fairness seen him a bit this season. Has great pace, movement and is a good finisher he will be at a big club soon.

Was surprised Liverpool didnt make a bid for him.

He was super calm against us last night. Incredible prospect.

MagicIRL · 21-10-2014 01:51PM

FutureGuy wrote: »

Was surprised Liverpool didnt make a bid for him.

He was super calm against us last night. Incredible prospect.

Thought Arsenal would've gone in for him instead of Welbeck myself.

Irishcrx · 21-10-2014 01:52PM

Pro. F wrote: »

There was a West Brom player receiving the ball in midfield unmarked. One of the defence is supposed to step up and mark him when that happens. Rojo didn't need to be a mind reader to know that he had to cover Jones stepping up and then mark Berahino when he came into the space. It should have been automatic for him to pick up Berahino. This is basic defensive organisation that gets trained in every club, but you think that it should work differently. Jones isn't a headless chicken, you just don't know the basics of defensive organisation.

Well no I don't agree with you , If Jones maintains his position there is no danger of the ball being played in behind him , when he rushes out of the line he leaves a gaping hole for the ball to be played into, Rojo is across the line marking another player and can't make it across. So Jones IMO is at fault because he should have read the danger and looked across his line.

The basics of defensive organisation is to thought to hold your line and read the game , maybe he did that or thought he was doing it but his decision to come out of the line was the wrong one on that occasion he made the pass in behind easy, he should have waited and let Blind or a midfielder come back and deal with it.

Van Gaal also said the two goals came from two errors, maybe he doesn't know the basics of football either. Go and have a chat with him about it.

Soldie · 21-10-2014 02:01PM

Brutal performances from Mata, Januzaj and van Persie last night. Shaw, Rojo and Herrera didn't play particularly well either.

I nearly punched the wall when van Persie was at the byline on the edge of the six-yard box and he tried to go for glory himself instead of squaring it. What happened to the man?

What do we reckon against Chelsea?

de Gea

-- Rafael - Jones - ??? - Rojo --

Blind

Herrera --- Fellaini

-- Valencia

Di María --

Falcao

It pains me to put Valencia in there, but what choice have we got? I wouldn't be starting Mata or Januzaj against Chelsea.

Pro. F · 21-10-2014 02:04PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Well no I don't agree with you , If Jones maintains his position there is no danger of the ball being played in behind him , when he rushes out of the line he leaves a gaping hole for the ball to be played into, Rojo is across the line marking another player and can't make it across. So Jones IMO is at fault because he should have read the danger and looked across his line.

The basics of defensive organisation is to thought to hold your line and read the game , maybe he did that or thought he was doing it but his decision to come out of the line was the wrong one on that occasion he made the pass in behind easy, he should have waited and let Blind or a midfielder come back and deal with it.

Rojo wasn't marking another player. There was no other West Brom player in his area. You need to watch the replay again.

Regarding the bold: No it's not. There's no point in us debating the finer points if you believe that.

Irishcrx wrote: »

Van Gaal also said the two goals came from two errors, maybe he doesn't know the basics of football either. Go and have a chat with him about it.

I never said there wasn't an error on the second goal. The midfield was all over the place, with nobody covering Blind so Jones had to step up and Rojo didn't cover Jones properly by marking Berahino. Plenty of mistakes on that goal.

So far at United Van Gaal hasn't produced a well organised team. He might be world famous and have a great CV, but those defensive displays are not acceptable and that falls on the manager.

Irishcrx · 21-10-2014 02:12PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Rojo wasn't marking another player. There was no other West Brom player in his area. You need to watch the replay again.

Regarding the bold: No it's not. There's no point in us debating the finer points if you believe that.

I never said there wasn't an error on the second goal. The midfield was all over the place, with nobody covering Blind so Jones had to step up and Rojo didn't cover Jones properly by marking Berahino. Plenty of mistakes on that goal.

So far at United Van Gaal hasn't produced a well organised team. He might be world famous and have a great CV, but those defensive displays are not acceptable and that falls on the manager.

Agree to disagree so.

I do agree with you on the second point though, regardless of who was at fault and to be fair your right it was all over the camp it needs to improve and quickly.

All well and good up front but the back line is shakier than a Fiat Punto on a back road.

Irishcrx · 21-10-2014 02:14PM

Soldie wrote: »

Brutal performances from Mata, Januzaj and van Persie last night. Shaw, Rojo and Herrera didn't play particularly well either.

I nearly punched the wall when van Persie was at the byline on the edge of the six-yard box and he tried to go for glory himself instead of squaring it. What happened to the man?

What do we reckon against Chelsea?
de Gea
-- Rafael - Jones - ??? - Rojo --
Blind
Herrera --- Fellaini
-- Valencia
Di María --
Falcao

It pains me to put Valencia in there, but what choice have we got? I wouldn't be starting Mata or Januzaj against Chelsea.

No not Valencia , he offers nothing , game is too big for him. I'd have Mata maybe not playing the best but he is getting goals and assists and I'd think he'd love to pull one out against Mourinho , that type of thing happens all too often 'the curse of the former player'

Vic Vinegar · 21-10-2014 02:30PM

Soldie wrote: »

What do we reckon against Chelsea?
de Gea
-- Rafael - Jones - ??? - Rojo --
Blind
Herrera --- Fellaini
-- Valencia
Di María --
Falcao

Shaw will be left back and Rojo will be CB anyway.

21-10-2014 02:48PM

There is no reason to be caught 1 on 1 in a situation where the opposition have 1 attacking player like that for a lot of the game and yet it was happening time after time. I actually thought Rojo did quite well in a lot of those situations and it was more down to bad discipline and organisation that cost United in those instances where the 2 CBs should be working together to mop up these over the top balls.

Ordinary man · 21-10-2014 02:55PM

hopefully lvg stays with the same back 4 for a few games, every game so far seems to have different players because of injuries

Rayne Wooney · 21-10-2014 03:01PM

The same back 4 with Carrick and Blind ahead, Mata, Di Maria on the left and Valencia on the right and Falcao up front

I think that's our best chance of getting something from the game

Valencia will help combat Hazard and Fabregas

Giggsy11 · 21-10-2014 03:05PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The same back 4 with Carrick and Blind ahead, Mata, Di Maria on the left and Valencia on the right and Falcao up front

I think that's our best chance of getting something from the game

Valencia will help combat Hazard and Fabregas

Just Herrera as 10 in place of Mata might be a better option. Also Fellaini might start as we need someone to deal with set pieces too.

Cantona's Collars · 21-10-2014 03:10PM

Fergie gives his opinions on Moyes: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/21/alex-ferguson-david-moyes-manchester-united

The switch from our high tempo game to the slow,cautious approach seemed to grate with him a bit.

ericzeking · 21-10-2014 03:15PM

It was me who mentioned giving Jones the armband, not by demoting Rooney or even Fletcher, just in situations like last night where neither are playing, every now and again if you will..... it might encourage Jones to be a leader, to lead the defense, something which we are lacking. He should be doing it anyway since his partner doesn't speak English but the armband might give him that extra impetus.

It certainly couldn't hurt.

I see no value in having the RvP we've seen for the past while captaining the team, that's for sure.

UnitedIrishman · 21-10-2014 03:15PM

Thought Herrera was very poor last night. He was dispossessed on a number of occasions and his passing wasn't great either. Almost sure it was said that Herrera was carrying an injury into the game so he can be forgiven for that. With Chelsea coming up it's a pity Michael Carrick isn't back with a couple of games played because himself and Blind would be a decent pair to play at the base of the midfield against them.

Defence is still unreliable and shaky. But the problem at times comes from the fact that we have a lot of attacking minded players that don't necessarily track runners. For instance for the first goal Shaw pushes up on the right winger who plays a nice first time pass out to Andre Wisdom who eventually crosses to Sessegnon. Di Maria watched Wisdom go by him before realising it was too late and giving up.

I'd agree in part that Rojo should have covered Jones for the second goal but I think the pace at which the move happened caught him out. And it'll more than likely come to him in time when he gets used to the league.

One thing that I couldn't understand is the defensive shape we had. We had a high line with no pressure from the front. That's asking for trouble with strong and fast attackers like Berahino to aim for in behind the defence. We definitely need more physicality in the lineup and Jones needs to start stepping up or regardless of what we paid for him he'll be replaced pretty quickly.

kryogen · 21-10-2014 03:28PM

PhiloCypher wrote: »

You'd be singing a completely different tune if his inaction on the bench had seen united sleepwalk into a 2/3 nil deficit at the break. Nobody is denying him bringing on Fellaini paid off or that every manager has his ways, I was merely pointing out that there is a middle ground between the Wenger and the Van Gaal approach.

No I wouldn't.

The_Kew_Tour · 21-10-2014 03:35PM

One pleasing thing about Fellaini was his ability to press well and stop WBA when they tried move with ball.

I don't think he will ever be 27m player but he showed last night what he can do.

He tends to do better away from home too where hardcore fans will cheer him on then get on his back.

Pro. F · 21-10-2014 03:36PM

Liam O wrote: »

There is no reason to be caught 1 on 1 in a situation where the opposition have 1 attacking player like that for a lot of the game and yet it was happening time after time. I actually thought Rojo did quite well in a lot of those situations and it was more down to bad discipline and organisation that cost United in those instances where the 2 CBs should be working together to mop up these over the top balls.

Do you think Rojo did quite well on the two or three occasions when he let the ball bounce in front of him and he ended up facing his own goal from a simple long ball?

Nalz · 21-10-2014 03:46PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

who gives a f*ck about cooking and cleaning, if she was putting out 5 times a week. very strange logic, each to their own though.

Ok - change cooking and cleaning to slucking and flucking or whatever way you want to look at it, I was just trying to be PC

I'm happy to give this more time than Moyes.
Better players, more injuries, better displays, proper football.

Demanding 22 points or whatever... just doesn't work that way. Not this early anyways.

Look at Liverpools finish last season, and the money they spent. They're one point ahead of us and shouldnt have won against QPR. Early days...

djPSB · 21-10-2014 03:54PM

Trilla wrote: »

Ok - change cooking and cleaning to slucking and flucking or whatever way you want to look at it, I was just trying to be PC

I'm happy to give this more time than Moyes.
Better players, more injuries, better displays, proper football.

Demanding 22 points or whatever... just doesn't work that way. Not this early anyways.

Look at Liverpools finish last season, and the money they spent. They're one point ahead of us and shouldnt have won against QPR. Early days...

Liverpool have been absolutely putrid so far this season so been only one point behind isn't all that great.

RasTa · 21-10-2014 04:07PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The same back 4 with Carrick and Blind ahead, Mata, Di Maria on the left and Valencia on the right and Falcao up front

No way should a 33 year old notoriously slow starter to a season, Michael Carrick be starting his first game against that Chelsea Midfield.

Iused2likebusts · 21-10-2014 04:24PM

Pro. F wrote: »

There was a West Brom player receiving the ball in midfield unmarked. One of the defence is supposed to step up and mark him when that happens. Rojo didn't need to be a mind reader to know that he had to cover Jones stepping up and then mark Berahino when he came into the space. It should have been automatic for him to pick up Berahino. This is basic defensive organisation that gets trained in every club, but you think that it should work differently. Jones isn't a headless chicken, you just don't know the basics of defensive organisation.

The defence should stay compact the opposition want to pull the centre half out of position like they did with Jones. So what if someone has a bit of space on the ball 60 yards from your goal they still have to play through an organised back line to score. When Jones steps out it leaves a huge gap to exploit between Rojo and Rafael which they did and Rafael should also have stepped up or tucked in. Jones and Rafael are to blame for that goal.

Maximus Alexander · 21-10-2014 04:34PM

I don't think the manager shouting at the players from the sideline has any real effect to be honest. If training, tactical preparation and team selection has failed, screaming short commands from the sidelines over the noise of the crowd seems unlikely to make much difference. The horse has bolted at that stage. Half time and substitutions are the only ways the manager can make much difference after kick off in my opinion.

Backstreet Moyes · 21-10-2014 04:59PM

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

The defence should stay compact the opposition want to pull the centre half out of position like they did with Jones. So what if someone has a bit of space on the ball 60 yards from your goal they still have to play through an organised back line to score. When Jones steps out it leaves a huge gap to exploit between Rojo and Rafael which they did and Rafael should also have stepped up or tucked in. Jones and Rafael are to blame for that goal.

Rafael is hardly a mind reader. Jones was in line with Rafael once he ran forward Rafael had no time to react before the ball was played through. Same with Rojo he had very little time to even attempt to run across to Berahinio.

The defenders were compact and Jones lunging forward opened the whole defence. If he is going to make that move forward he must win the ball or give away a free.

The fact is a West Brom player had space 50 yards from goal their was no need for Jones to run out of position he takes all the blame for that goal imo.

Mars Bar · 21-10-2014 05:11PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Rafael is hardly a mind reader. Jones was in line with Rafael once he ran forward Rafael had no time to react before the ball was played through. Same with Rojo he had very little time to even attempt to run across to Berahinio.

The defenders were compact and Jones lunging forward opened the whole defence. If he is going to make that move forward he must win the ball or give away a free.

The fact is a West Brom player had space 50 yards from goal their was no need for Jones to run out of position he takes all the blame for that goal imo.

Jones wasn't in line with Raf. Raf was behind the other 3.

Backstreet Moyes · 21-10-2014 05:19PM

Mars Bar wrote: »

Jones wasn't in line with Raf. Raf was behind the other 3.

I was fairly sure Jones and Rafael were in line maybe i am wrong.

MD1990 · 21-10-2014 05:21PM

djPSB wrote: »

Liverpool have been absolutely putrid so far this season so been only one point behind isn't all that great.

Also the difference in fixtures. We have played Man City & Spurs both away from home & Southampton too.

Deiseboy01 · 21-10-2014 05:33PM

greendom wrote: »

That finish from Fellaini last night was hardly tripe, was it ?

Did I say it was? Nope.

Playing him up top results in tripe football where we hoof the ball to a battering ram. Its bad enough watching Utd these days without resorting to that.

Lord TSC · 21-10-2014 05:41PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

I was fairly sure Jones and Rafael were in line maybe i am wrong.

Raf was a few feet behind the others in terms of a straight line. Had he been in line with them, it would have been an offside, but he played the West Brom player on.

Liam McPoyle · 21-10-2014 05:55PM

Just saw on SSN, CR7 has never scored at Anfield. Did not know that.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

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