Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Your Airbag · 21-10-2014 07:08AM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

The delusion in this thread is what gets me.

- Adnan and Ronaldo being mentioned in the same breath. Januzaj is closer to Kieran Richardson than he is to Ronaldo.

- The love for Mata. Mourinho wanting rid was massive "caveat emptor". A bad signing.

An earlier poster was spot on...Rooney would be ridiculed in this thread for producing the kind of dross that RVP and Mata are churning out week in and week out.

Our back four is toxic right now. Fellas at sixes and sevens and all over the shop seems to be our modus operandi. I used to think that Jones was a great white hope but he's looking more and more like a headless chicken.

Not to keen on the Adnan/Richardson comparison but agree about Mata.

The sheer amount of love he gets around here is weird to me. He has done nothing to deserve it. Take his goals away and he has been very meh since joining. I know what a contradiction that is as scoring goals is the number one thing you can do but this passing wizard with great technique who can unlock any defense is nowhere to be seen. Couple that with his lack of defensive effort and you have a player who is not offering us a whole lot. I would have rather Kagawa kept on as a number 10 if I had to chose one of the two.

Falcao should start over RVP and play alongside Rooney up front when he is back, RVP benched as third choice striker. Fellaini should get a run at the number 10 position based on last night. Yes our defense is muck.

Deiseboy01 · 21-10-2014 07:25AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Not to keen on the Adnan/Richardson comparison but agree about Mata.

The sheer amount of love he gets around here is weird to me. He has done nothing to deserve it. Take his goals away and he has been very meh since joining. I know what a contradiction that is as scoring goals is the number one thing you can do but this passing wizard with great technique who can unlock any defense is nowhere to be seen. Couple that with his lack of defensive effort and you have a player who is not offering us a whole lot. I would have rather Kagawa kept on as a number 10 if I had to chose one of the two.

Falcao should start over RVP and play alongside Rooney up front when he is back, RVP benched as third choice striker. Fellaini should get a run at the number 10 position based on last night. Yes our defense is muck.

Fellaini should be nowhere near number ten for us, him playing there is an admission our game plan has failed.

Your Airbag · 21-10-2014 07:35AM

akelly02 wrote: »

My honest opinion:

shaw, terrible,
Jones , brutal
Januzai , spelling wrong but woeful.

Good points:
blind is a better defensive mid than carrick and fletcher put together.

Falcao showed in 20 mins why we should start him in future games

Our backline showed LVG we need reinforcements BIG TIME

Lol, that made me chuckle

Deiseboy01 wrote: »

Fellaini should be nowhere near number ten for us, him playing there is an admission our game plan has failed.

What? Why not? Did you not see him last night? a) Its his best position b) How is playing a real physical and goal threat in his best position an admission of failure? The logic your applying is all wrong.

Fellaini was a beast there for Everton and looked like that player last night. Why would you not want that? Under Moyes, deep in midfeild Fellaini had to collect the ball and move it forward. All of his talents were wasted back there and he offered us nothing and with no decent MF partner was made to look poorer than he is.

LVG said you need physicality in the EPL in his post match interview and thats why Fellaini came on. Gary Nev said there is nothing wrong or to be embarrssed about with using him there. Its common sense.

I'd like to see Fellaini start against Chelsea and City and try to bully those defenses. Falcao too, he looks great at getting stuck in and holds the ball amazingly well under pressure from more than one player and usually comes away with it.

What we saw last night from Fellaini proved that all the flop stuff thrown at him from last season about the price tag etc was BS. He is a good player with much to offer. If we get the Fellaini of Everton firing on all cylinders for us I say bring it on. He is a real handful for any defense.

Lucas Hood · 21-10-2014 07:41AM

Coming up against city & Chelsea I can maybe see Herrera playing in Matas position with Blind & one of Fletcher/Fellaini/Carrick in behind him to try and keep things tight.

We definitely need to do something different or they'll tear us a new arsehole.

Spazdarn · 21-10-2014 07:47AM

Januzaj was sh1t last night, wayward passing, poor first touch, but it was his first start, in a season where he finds himself trying too hard to get ahead of the players brought in. If he settled down a bit he'd be useful.

He was a rare, direct threat last season in a team too prone to slowly going through the gears, comparisons to Kieran Richardson are sensationalist and borderline cruel.

The defence is and likely will continue to be, terrible. Even if some of these guys get a run of games, they'll still not be good enough to hold a place in a Champions League team.

The worst performer this season for him has to to Robin Van Persie. He shouldn't be starting, he's adding nothing to the attack, he's not bringing people into play. Falcao was a much better option when he came on.

Mata was pretty bad too last night, but I don't think he's been as poor as others have claimed. He hasn't set the world alight though so he has a lot to do before

The team should be Rooney and Falcao up top, Mata or Januzaj behind the front two.

Blind, Di Maria and Herrera ...

We're so porous at the back I'd almost bring Carrick into the fold, and I dislike Carrick... feel dirty even proposing that.

Lord TSC · 21-10-2014 07:52AM

Really had hoped Mata would do more with his chance; I think on his day, he's a better #10 than Rooney, but that he's not really shown any signs of that in the last two games when he really needed to. He's missed a big chance over the last two games

Larry Wildman · 21-10-2014 07:53AM

Fellaini at 10?! Jesus Christ. We're Manchester United, not Stoke City. Why don't we get rid of Rooney and Falcao while we're at it and replace them with Andy Carroll and Tony Cascarino?

There is no role for Fellaini at United other than as a last resort Plan Z when all else has failed and we're chasing a game. He is not good enough for Manchester United - End of story.

KH25 · 21-10-2014 07:53AM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Really had hoped Mata would do more with his chance; I think on his day, he's a better #10 than Rooney, but that he's not really shown any signs of that in the last two games when he really needed to. He's missed a big chance over the last two games

Watch him assist Falcao for a hattrick against Chelsea now

Your Airbag · 21-10-2014 08:07AM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Fellaini at 10?! Jesus Christ. We're Manchester United, not Stoke City. Why don't we get rid of Rooney and Falcao while we're at it and replace them with Andy Carroll and Tony Cascarino?

There is no role for Fellaini at United other than as a last resort Plan Z when all else has failed and we're chasing a game. He is not good enough for Manchester United - End of story.

The ball was crossed from the wing to Fellaini. We cross from the wing to most of our forwards. Its what UTD have been doing for decades.

There is a big difference between that and what your saying Stoke do, the old Stoke that is, they don't do it as much under Hughes. Crossing is not the same as lumping the ball the ball from your back line to a target man once the defender gets it from the GK, bypassing the midfield, the majority of both teams players and any need to play football.

Your have a very black and white stereotyped view of football based on cliches. If crossing from wide to a physical/aerial threat is the Stoke style then every team plays the Stoke style.

Backstreet Moyes · 21-10-2014 08:15AM

I am fairly sure Fellaini played cm last night not at #10?

Michael D Not Higgins · 21-10-2014 08:17AM

Nuts102 wrote: »

I am fairly sure Fellaini played cm last night not at #10?

He was getting ballsy after his goal and kept pushing forward though.

Tom.D.BJJ · 21-10-2014 08:22AM

kryogen wrote: »

Rojo looks pretty solid tbh

I dont agree, and here's why:

A high ball coming in five yards from edge of box. Decision to head it or let it bounce, he decides to let it bounce which invited pressure. Jones did the same thing in the second half.

In the same position what would Vidic, Terry, Tony Adams or Vincent Kompany do? They would head it.

Hidalgo · 21-10-2014 08:29AM

I think part of the criticism aimed at Janazuj is down to comparisons with Sterling. Just because Stetling took off its assumed Janazuj should have taken a similar projection. Worth remembering that Sterling struggled early last season turning in vexing displays.

Janazuj is still only a kid and has loads to learn. He'll make plenty mistakes on the way but thats the nature of it. Worst possible thing that could happen to a young player like that is to lose self-confidence and the fear of making mistakes takes over.
If he was coming into a winning Utd side it would be far easier as others would carry the slack.

Larry Wildman · 21-10-2014 08:31AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The ball was crossed from the wing to Fellaini. We cross from the wing to most of our forwards. Its what UTD have been doing for decades.

There is a big difference between that and what your saying Stoke do, the old Stoke that is, they don't do it as much under Hughes. Crossing is not the same as lumping the ball the ball from your back line to a target man once the defender gets it from the GK, bypassing the midfield, the majority of both teams players and any need to play football.

Your have a very black and white stereotyped view of football based on cliches. If crossing from wide to a physical/aerial threat is the Stoke style then every team plays the Stoke style.

Accusing someone of dealing in cliches is just a lazy argument.

Fellaini is poor technically and his modus operandi is to physically bully people. His best days in an Everton shirt (certainly against us) involved him doing just that.

My view is that we should have greater aspirations than that.

We are Manchester United, not Everton or Stoke or West Brom.

MagicIRL · 21-10-2014 08:31AM

Nuts102 wrote: »

I am fairly sure Fellaini played cm last night not at #10?

He was playing as a box-to-box midfielder. It was a straight swap with Herrera, only Mata was dropping deep when Fellaini bombed forward to give cover for the West Brom counter.

The problem last night was not the defence, in my opinion. The problem was Mata and how he failed to link the possession midfield play with the forwards. United tried to stretch the game wide left and right with Adnan and Di Maria, and it worked to some extent, but with only RVP up front it was of little use. Had Mata been playing as he can, he would've offered that second goal threat in the box, or played either Di Maria or Januzaj in to the box with some quick passing in front of the CBs.

All in all a very good United performance in my opinion.

Michael D Not Higgins · 21-10-2014 08:33AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

I dont agree, and here's why:

A high ball coming in five yards from edge of box. Decision to head it or let it bounce, he decides to let it bounce which invited pressure. Jones did the same thing in the second half.

In the same position what would Vidic, Terry, Tony Adams or Vincent Kompany do? They would head it.

That's CB 101, never let it bounce.

Cantona's Collars · 21-10-2014 08:40AM

Who was Woodward talking about?

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/social/man-uniteds-ed-woodward-call-one-of-his-players-a-f-waste-of-money-v-west-brom-vine/

bangkok · 21-10-2014 08:40AM

Chelsea 6/4 this weekend. Easiest money you will ever make. We are a shambles. Back 4 is all over the place, lightweight in midfield and van persie seems like he doesn't care. Rooney is a massive loss for this weekend. Falcao MUST start.

Crimson King · 21-10-2014 08:40AM

Agree with the Januzaj appraisals, thought he was just terrible last night and made every wrong decision. He has all the skill in the world but if he can't make the right pass at the right time it means nowt. Just ask Nani.

I felt Falcao made a big difference after coming on, he looked so up for it. Delighted with Fellaini, although he was a bad purchase he is still a very decent player and the stick he gets is not on.

I want to give a full season before I judge him but so far I am far from impressed with Shaw, he was exposed for pace on several occasions last night and everything WBA did well in the first half came from exploiting him out of position. Maybe he is out of shape like people claim, but so far I am worried.

advertsfox · 21-10-2014 08:53AM

We were getting pushed off the ball a lot last night, Mata unfortunately is easily knocked over and although Herrera takes it in his stride, the likes of Fellaini / Falcao's strength was really beneficially. That would have been a totally different game if we played 4-4-2 from the start with Rooney on the pitch. Januzaj was just dire last night, looked weak and just tried to be too fancy - he needs to get out of them bad habits (like Young / Welbeck did). I actually missed Valencia's fast through balls.

Falcao was great in the short time he was on, looking forward to him starting against Chelsea. I don't know what to say about Van Persie, he doesn't look the same.

kryogen · 21-10-2014 09:21AM

Nuts102 wrote: »

I am fairly sure Fellaini played cm last night not at #10?

He did, but sure don't let facts get in the way of the story.

I quite liked the look of the 4411 type system when Falcao came on, RVP seemed to be able to find a bit more space playing in behind him and Falcao was doing better at holding the ball up. Fellaini was working box to box and Blind was still the sitting midfielder though he was getting forward a lot, the wings were poor though Young and Jan, but it might be something to think about regarding RVP, playing the Cantona role sort of.

Reminded me a bit of West Ham in 95 that game, battered them but could not get the important winning goal...

Fellaini at the very least showed that he can still be a good squad option for us, thankfully might get him a small bit of breathing space from certain section of the United "fanbase"

kryogen · 21-10-2014 09:23AM

zerks wrote: »

Who was Woodward talking about?

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/social/man-uniteds-ed-woodward-call-one-of-his-players-a-f-waste-of-money-v-west-brom-vine/

The more I look at it the less sure I am thats what he is saying

bangkok · 21-10-2014 09:25AM

kryogen wrote: »

The more I look at it the less sure I am thats what he is saying

yea he doesn't say that at all

Leroy42 · 21-10-2014 09:25AM

Well, Mata has been given the chance that loads on here were looking for and so far he hasn't exactly proved Mourinho wrong. A good sub to have on the bench but you can't build a team around what he offers.

LVG also needs to take some stick. 150m and we are 1 point better off than last year, after a much easier start to the campaign. All this talk of LVG philosophy, he doesn't seem to have one. Our imporovement came last night when we went to route one football, aimed at Fellani. Why did Moyes never think of that piece of genius.

Now LVG wants to extend his own 3 months period. He hasn't even started to make a difference to the defence. He talks about teaching players to learn waht to do, well how about teaching Shaw about his position, or Rafa about the offside trap.

It is just not acceptable that after spending 150m in the summer we are behind teams like West Ham and Southhampton. Everyobidy on here gets a hardon saying they can't beleive ADM, Falcoa, Mata etc play for us. Well guess what, teams that cost less than one of them are easily matching us.

I don't buy this that we SFA left behind such a crappy team. No doubt he pulled a miracle (aide by City not playing) in getting the title in the last year, but are we really saying that as a club we have now fallen behind West Brom? We will do well to get anything out of the games against Chelsea, City and Arsenal. That would see us drop down the table and this false pciture that we are only just off the top four will be exposed.

Maximus Alexander · 21-10-2014 09:26AM

kryogen wrote: »

The more I look at it the less sure I am thats what he is saying

I don't think he's saying that at all.

kryogen · 21-10-2014 09:28AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

I dont agree, and here's why:

A high ball coming in five yards from edge of box. Decision to head it or let it bounce, he decides to let it bounce which invited pressure. Jones did the same thing in the second half.

In the same position what would Vidic, Terry, Tony Adams or Vincent Kompany do? They would head it.

So you are saying, never in their career has Vidic, Terry, Adams of Kompany made an error, or let a ball bounce?

Is it possible that players are not perfect but can still be pretty solid at the same time?

All I said was he looks pretty solid, I didn't say he is one of the best in the world, but he has his attributes and is still young enough to develop even further. I do not make any claim on how good or bad he will become in the future, but I stand by the assessment that he is pretty solid.

A mistake, or even a perceived mistake doesn't make someone a bad player.

ericzeking · 21-10-2014 09:57AM

Can't be reading back through all the posts just now...are we blaming Shaw for the first goal or what's the general consensus? Personally I think there is a major question to be asked of ADM defensively and not just for that goal but in general there have been a few instances in the games he has played. Giving it away cheaply in deep positions for example.

I'm not saying he should be dropped or anything like it, he has been top class attacking wise but I do think he is a player that needs to be indulged, similar to Ronaldo. I would worry for us if he was in a midfield 3 against one of the top sides. And if he was wide in a 4, I'd like to see cover coming across. Herrerra goes forward a lot, leaving Blind with a lot of ground to cover.
Tactically we are either going for something really fluid or we are just disorganised.

I could see both Carrick and Blind playing against City/Chelsea.

Tom.D.BJJ · 21-10-2014 09:59AM

kryogen wrote: »

So you are saying, never in their career has Vidic, Terry, Adams of Kompany made an error, or let a ball bounce?

Is it possible that players are not perfect but can still be pretty solid at the same time?

All I said was he looks pretty solid, I didn't say he is one of the best in the world, but he has his attributes and is still young enough to develop even further. I do not make any claim on how good or bad he will become in the future, but I stand by the assessment that he is pretty solid.

A mistake, or even a perceived mistake doesn't make someone a bad player.

I didnt say that. All i'm saying is that both Rojo and Jones made poor decisions last night. Poor decision making concedes goals in the long run. Neither look like a centre back i want leading the team.

niallo27 · 21-10-2014 10:00AM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

You're alright niallo, you don't bother me. And anytime you do, I just remind you that you pretended to be a girl here and in other forums for attention, and that usually shuts you up pretty quickly.

It's the people we don't have dirt on that are the real problem.

Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah.

The_Kew_Tour · 21-10-2014 10:03AM

At least one positive is that we look like we can score goals.

Last year had we been down 2-1 we more likely lost. Point might only be small step but step in right direction.

Saw few on match thread saying we deserved nothing from game but its not as if De Gea was busy man. We were better team but few silly mistakes cost us.

I'm not dreading the Chelsea game as much as some here. Result would be sweet but if we show determination and are up for battle that will do. 6/4 on Chelsea is tempting alright though.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

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