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Is feminism a dirty word?
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Pawwed Rig wrote: »MRA organisations are a mirror image of feminist organisations. Anything you say about one can be equally applied to the other. The only difference is that MRA orgs really do not exist in this part of the world.
Where you see misogyny in MRA there is misandry in feminism, where you see extremism in one it is mirrored in the other yet the majority of both are well meaning egalitarians whose public face is dominated by the extremists.
Much of what you say above is true PR (though to my knowledge feminism existed long before masculinism started taking off Stateside? Could be wrong, open to correction, feminism - '20's, masculinism - 70's?), but the bit in bold, while it's absolutely accurate, it's also the cause of much of the confusion and disdain I would say for both ideologies (and a few others).
I think for me personally it's because I'm seeing more and more of these SJW's on the Internet who are trying to be all egalitarian and because they actually latch on to every social injustice, they lack focus, and dilute both movements.
I get what they're trying to do - gender equality. They're just doing it very badly IMO, and that's why when I listened to Emma Watson's 'invitation' to men, I just thought -
Not too many men are going to join women in fighting for equal rights for women, without expecting something in return, and Feminism, as I understand it, is not about fighting for equal rights and opportunities for men. It's a very confusing campaign really, and as Emma Watson herself admitted, in front of a UN audience ffs - they're still struggling to find a term for this new what looks like an egalitarian movement, but they're still describing it as feminism... What gives?
To me, feminism was never supposed to be about telling men effectively "It's OK to be vulnerable like women". Emma just threw away 100 years of the feminist movement right there!Being a member of a feminist movement is socially acceptable however being an MRA opens you up to all levels of abuse and shaming(for example there have been posters on here claiming misandry does not exist:pac:).
I really dunno about that any more tbh :pac:
Honestly, in 37 years, and having grown up mostly around women, and having worked around women all my life, I cannot recall one, not one, who has ever identified herself as feminist. I go on the Internet then, and they're identifying bloody everywhere!
I think what's hurting MRA's really is that they're too late unfortunately, and now egalitarianism is the new way forward it seems for most people, so anything outside moderate egalitarianism just looks like extremism. The problem with egalitarianism though, is that neither men nor women can make up their minds what they actually stand for, nor who they represent.
Misandry exists of course, but like misogyny, feminism, masculinism, egalitarianism, sexism, Marxism, Trotskyism, any other 'ism' you can think of...
They're not so much dirty words any more, as they are words that seem to have lost all meaning because they lack context, and their movements lack any direction.0 -
Pawwed Rig wrote: »MRA organisations are a mirror image of feminist organisations. Anything you say about one can be equally applied to the other. The only difference is that MRA orgs really do not exist in this part of the world.
Some people love to believe that MRA = opposite of feminist but it is just not true.
It is like saying someone who supported Jews during WW11 is the exact opposite of a Nazi.
MRA organisations are nothing like feminist organisations.
There are no MRA professors moulding young minds.
There are no MRA politicians who are sticking up for men while shaming women.
There are no government agencies run by MRAs.
There are no laws being drafted with the MRA ideology (see Istanbul Convention).
There are no laws being drafted which just protect one gender written by MRAs.
The health departments are not staffed by people who have been through "Men's studies".
Media is not controlled by people influenced by MRA thoughts.Pawwed Rig wrote: »Where you see misogyny in MRA there is misandry in feminism, where you see extremism in one it is mirrored in the other yet the majority of both are well meaning egalitarians whose public face is dominated by the extremists.
Being a member of a feminist movement is socially acceptable however being an MRA opens you up to all levels of abuse and shaming(for example there have been posters on here claiming misandry does not exist:pac:).
I will not deny that I have seen some terrible things written by people who claim to be MRAs.
I have blasted those people and made my views of them clear.
I condemn all people who express hatred for anyone else where they've done you no harm other then to be different somehow.
I dispute your claim that the face of the Mens Human Rights Movement is dominated by extremists.
I don't know of any who are in the Men's Human Rights Movement .
I can name some disturbed individuals who feminists claim to be part of what we stand for but they have nothing to do with us or what we are about.
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Much of what you say above is true PR (though to my knowledge feminism existed long before masculinism started taking off Stateside? Could be wrong, open to correction, feminism - '20's, masculinism - 70's?), but the bit in bold, while it's absolutely accurate, it's also the cause of much of the confusion and disdain I would say for both ideologies (and a few others).
The Men's Human Rights Movement is not run by Masculinists.
It is a lie feminists keep trying to push just like the Elliot Rodgers shootings in California.
Believing that the genders should have equal respect is not an ideology unless you are trying to push something else across under the noses of people....like Marxism.I think what's hurting MRA's really is that they're too late unfortunately, and now egalitarianism is the new way forward it seems for most people, so anything outside moderate egalitarianism just looks like extremism. The problem with egalitarianism though, is that neither men nor women can make up their minds what they actually stand for, nor who they represent.
What is hurting MRAs is the simple fact that boys and men are under constant attack and previous few people seem to care much about it.
The 5-1 suicide rate alone should be enough to verify that.
I was at an event in Sandyford where Sen . Mary White gave a talk on the issues of suicide.
She wrote a document on the issue, you can read about it here
Pay special note to pages 5, 18, 19, 20 and 21
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I wouldn't say it's all that obvious at all actually, partially because MRAs (I'll call a spade a spade) only exist like I said as a backlash to women advocating for equal rights for women. MRAs only exist to deny the existence of inequalities, moreso than highlighting issues that affect men.
That is a completely false.
You are confusing 'advocating for equal rights for women' with feminism.
You don't need to be a feminist to fight for equal rights for women anymore than you need to be a man to realise boys and men are under attack from society.
The MHRM is there because no one else is fighting for boys and men.In case you hadn't noticed, men are part of that society you speak of, but MRAs like to point the finger at feminism and claim what they have is "legitimate criticism" rather than concentrate their efforts on advocating for men. A classic example is pointing out that "feminists don't advocate for equal custodial sentences for women". Well, why would they? That would be stupid. Why do MRAs not advocate for lesser custodial sentences for men instead?
I'll tell you why - because it's easier to point fingers and blame someone else, than it is to actually take responsibility for an issue that affects men and actually DO something about it!
We have noticed that men are part of society which seems to be something which just about everyone forgets.
Finger pointing is something you seem to be good at.
There are 2 different organisations.
One is a very small one with practically no power nor funds and the other is a mighty empire of people from across various countries with literally billions at it's disposal.
One fights for the rights of men and the other fights for the Marxist ideology of feminism.You assume wrong. It's because I actually have spent quite an amount of time examining and studying both movements that I have very little time for either movement in their modern incarnations (I've already said as much earlier on in this thread).
Just because you've looked at it through biased eyes does not mean you've come to the right conclusions.
You assume that the bits you've looked at are the only bits which represent the whole of it which would be foolish to the extreme.
You need to dig deeperFor even greater clarity - there's a world of a difference between:
- Women's Rights
- Equal rights and opportunities for women
- Gender equality
And I don't even have to be a feminist or an MRA to be able to tell the difference.
Yeah well I'd be more inclined to think that you are biased because you've forgotten that boys and men are part of society.
So I've fixed it for you- Human rights.
- Equal rights, responsibilities, consequences and opportunities for everyone regardless of gender.
- Gender equality
This is what the Men's Human Rights Movement strives for.
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I know the media coverage for mens rights is minimal but why not change that?
Have you ever tried to bring a Men's Rights issue to the attention of the media?
I have and the stone wall of silence is deafening!
Feminists control the media.Now if only that's what this thread were about, you might have a point. As it stands, you don't, and I won't be going down that particular rabbit hole with you, as this thread is about feminism, not MRAs.
That rabbit hole was opened days before I came onto this thread.
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Oh come on please tell me you do not consider this a valid excuse for sitting back, no wonder there is very little about mrm in the media if this is the common belief!
It is not a belief it is a fact.Would they? I don't think they would.
Some people might claim to be egalitarian though on the basis that they see feminism as having gone too far, and the *cough*, "men's human rights movement", is an attempt to, as they see it 'redress that balance' - nothing to do with advocating for equal rights and opportunities for men really, and more to do with trying to prevent women advocating for equal rights and opportunities for women.
You are confusing feminism with an equal rights campaign.
Here is some real feminism for you....from hereSenator Ivana Bacik: This prison seems to be forging ahead without anyone questioning whether we need these places. I was going to use the “L” word but I hesitate to use it, other Members of the House having fallen into problems, so I will say that misinformation rather than lies have been told about the need for more prison places in this country. The reality elsewhere shows us that if one builds bigger prisons, judges and sentences will fill them with people. This is the sad reality and we need to reappraise whether we need this many prisons, especially for women.
This week, we are fortunate to receive a visit from Baroness Jean Corston from the British House of L[817]ords who produced a very radical report last year on women in prison and who recommended, after a very thorough review, that prison places for women should essentially be abolished and that there should just be a small number of small detention units for women. Otherwise, alternative sanctions should be used. We could very much learn from the lessons of that report.
I am happy to say that Baroness Corston will be visiting Leinster House on Thursday. Deputy Mary O’Rourke and I are hosting a meeting with her for all women Members of the Oireachtas. I am sorry that we cannot invite any male colleagues interested in this issue to the briefing with Baroness Corston.
You can see clearly that they believe equality is for both genders.
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I'm not at all actually. Feminism as I understand it is concerned with advocating for equal rights and opportunities for women.
Which brings me to my next point which is a simple one.
Equality between the genders would be a bad thing for women because women would lose out.
So feminists only want all the nice stuff men have....which they worked bloody hard for BTW but will not give up the natural and legal advantages that women have always had.No, I can't? Unless you're being ironic? Feminism isn't concerned with equality for both genders. That's more an egalitarian philosophy.
More like I was being sarcastic.
Feminism isn't concerned about equality at all.RDM_83 again wrote: »ok thats a massive simplification of the issues, can you honestly say people like Dennis O'Brien and rupert murdoch are feminists?
its a combination of clickbate of extremist views and IMO a view that mens issues aren't important, as well as a the intellectual background of many journalists.
Well all I can say to you is we've been trying hard to get media to listen and it is hard work.
I know we'll get there but right now it is close to an impossible task
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