Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Note in OP, 1/09

NEDDURC wrote: »

Watch the first 10 minutes of last night. He came looking for the ball off the centre backs like he's supposed to but every time just played it back to them!! Then he just stopped coming looking for it after that.

I've said this a good few times in here before but thats the centre backs fault. They're playing the ball to gerrard whilst he facing his own goal and with a man on his back. The only way he can go is back to where the ball came from in that circumstance.
Skrtel and Henderson had their own little game in the first half as well where skrtel wouldnt take responsibility with the ball at his feet. "You have it, no you have it, no no you have it".
For all of Sakho's defensively frailiities he will at least some times try to bypass the easy option to a marked gerrard and will try and pass a ball through midfield.

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

The thing is, if Gerrard is dropped who plays? Lucas? He'd be no better. Our CM is a shambles at the moment. Not counting Henderson who i'd class as a more attacking mid we have

Gerrard: 34
Allen: sicknote
Lucas: not good enough

and Can, which was one of the more baffling purchases of the summer.

Lucas and Allen need to be sold imo, Lucas in Jan and maybe Allen next summer. The hunt for a couple of serious CM's should start now.

Im a big fan of Rodgers, but i think his naivety has him in trouble here. If he makes it through this patch hopefully he will have learned a thing or two, it could be good experience for the man, after all he's still a young manager I believe that he has the mentality to get us through this.

Eh...why?
Came off the back of a good season with leverkusen, hightly rated and young which fits fsgs policy thus far by and large. He also plays a number of positions aswell as being a bit of a unit, something weve missed in a midfielder in ages. Was personally looking forward to seeing him play but has been unlucky with injuries, id like to see a midfield of can-allen-henderson eventually myself.

NukaCola wrote: »

Its fairly obvious we have a problem in defence. How it hasn't been addressed is worrying not because we wont be able to outscore everyone like last season, but because it was left this long without being properly addressed.

SG deep lying role isn't really a traditional DM role. He hasn't the mobility to cover that ground anyway. We dont really play with a DM and maybe that should have been addressed.

If people can remember when BR first took over, Joe Allen was played as a DM and done very well there. Many people may disagree but I think the role SG is in as a bit of a luxury to fit him in. Teams boss the middle against us too easy.

A formation change and few role changes need to be made and hopefully BR does this sooner rather than later.

This is the crux of the problem, the side is suffering to accommodate him in a formation that doesn't work. Our defence is dodge and we have Gerrard playing DM when he really can't.

As someone said everything from the centre backs seems to go through gerrard which slows the whole side down.

IMO you can only play Gerrard in this role if you play 2 of Henderson/Allen/Can ahead of him in the midfield diamond but then where does that leave Lallana, as Sterling has to start. Lallana should be starting he has shown the most so far in a broken team.

When Gerrard's long balls and set pieces aren't coming off he offers nothing and is just a passenger.

When Allen/Can are fit he has to seriously look at limiting his game time, or I'm afraid this will be the downfall of Rodgers.

Sturridge might come back, score goals and win games and it will look rosey again but the fact will remain, that sadly Steven Gerrard is utterly past it.

On gerrard, whatever about being dropped people can debate over but he needs to be rotated at least and not just league cup games which are once every month or so. He will look like hes running through treacle on saturday i imagine, a 34 y/o player in such a physical role cant play every game.



Suso out for 2 months, yay.

BenEadir wrote: »

If someone in the DM role doesn't press he might as well hold the door open for the opposition to come storming through our defence. Are you seriously suggesting Stevie is absolved from pressing given his location on the pitch is in sitting in front of the back four?

The first priority of a player sitting in front of the back four (whether you call him a DM or not) is to press the opposition to break up attacks and protect the defence. If you have a player who can do that and is also capable of a world class long range defence splitting pass you have a bonus on top but if having someone in that position who can't press but can deliver a nice long pass you're giving the opposition a serious advantage.

But he's not playing the DM role, he's playing this "quarter-back" role. We aren't playing with a DM, and without atleast 1 on the pitch we are going to continue to concede in open play and let the opposition walk through us.

There was times last night where they strolled past Gerrard, its ridiculous.

For all the whinging about Sterling, here's his heat map.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/matches/live/day=2/session=2/match=2014325/index.html

Now here's Markovic's

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/matches/live/day=2/session=2/match=2014325/index.html

Also what's telling from last night is our lack of passes and lack of possession. I think that plays into what we're seeing, a lot of our build up play is breaking down quite badly and we are not retaining the ball like we should be.

Another thing that's wrong that I haven't seen anyone touch on yet is the complete lack of support from the full back's. Last season, you could have relied on them to provide overlapping support and to drag players out of position. I think now because they feel the defense is so frail, they are not really getting past the half way line. I think in the 4-3-3 system, you can only make it work if you're giving the front 3 support when you're looking to break. Other than Moreno showing a few times - how often have we seen some truly incisive and decent support from the full backs? Again, I don't think it's their fault. They're obviously terrified to go too far forward because we lose the ball so often, we ourselves are wide open.

Again, like I said yesterday, the whole team is playing like it's broken.

Its actually laughable how quick some are to turn on Rodgers. The man that brought us to the cusp of a Premier League for the first time in years.

Absolutely laughable. I was at Anfield for the Everton game and the good news is that support is very much behind Rodgers which is a good thing. Reading some of the absolute tripe from the usual critics on here you'd swear hes about to get the sack.

We are badly missing Sturridge and I am convinced that once he is back, Balotelli will come into his own. It is clear Balotelli needs a strike partner.

Allen is a big miss for setting the tempo which allows Henderson push further forward. Cannot understand the post calling Can one of the most baffling transfers of the summer either. He has the potential to be one of those powerful midfielders that we so badly lack.

If Rodgers deserves anything after last season its time. We are only 3 points off Arsenal.

joe123 wrote: »

Its actually laughable how quick some are to turn on Rodgers. The man that brought us to the cusp of a Premier League for the first time in years.

Absolutely laughable. I was at Anfield for the Everton game and the good news is that support is very much behind Rodgers which is a good thing. Reading some of the absolute tripe from the usual critics on here you'd swear hes about to get the sack.

We are badly missing Sturridge and I am convinced that once he is back, Balotelli will come into his own. It is clear Balotelli needs a strike partner.

Allen is a big miss for setting the tempo which allows Henderson push further forward. Cannot understand the post calling Can one of the most baffling transfers of the summer either. He has the potential to be one of those powerful midfielders that we so badly lack.

If Rodgers deserves anything after last season its time. We are only 3 points off Arsenal.

Agree! It took quite abit of tweaking last year to get a formation that worked well. With injuries and so many new players, Rodgers is struggling to get the right balance at the moment.

I've full confidence that he will but he has some tough calls to make now.

NEDDURC wrote: »

Don't agree, centre backs shouldn't be taking big risks. Gerrard as most people point out is now our quarterback. He should come looking for the ball, turn with it and get play moving forward.

Gerrard is good when he has the ball facing forward but dropping deep facing our own goal he is terrible. Very rarely does he turn on the ball ala Scholes / Pirlo. Johnny Giles has said it a long time ago, Gerrard is not a playmaker in the way Scholes was. He can do amazing things at times but doesn't know how to control the flow of the play.

We either need a real playermaker in that position (maybe Joe Allen can have a go at it) or we need a proper defensive mid in there (like a Makellele type player). Gerrard is neither and it is being shown up this year quite badly.

No one said take big risks but if a player is marked dont give him the ball. Its simple really.
Case in point being Mignolet passing the ball to gerrard just outisde our box last night when he'd a man on. He got caught in possession and they nearly scored. F*ck sake, he's being marked! at best he's gonna pass it back to one of our defenders, at worst he's gonna f&ck up and they'll get a chance out of it (what happened!!). Mignolet, like the team in general, needs to choose a better option.
Countless times Gerrard will pick up the ball facing the play and the defenders will split either side, this is where he's meant to excel and dictate the game.
Receiving the ball with someone on your back makes it difficult to turn and play, even the likes of pirlo doesnt take chances when he facing his own goal and there's a man marking him. He'll go back to his defenders if needs be.
I just feel, and I've said it here before, that the centre backs seem to think EVERYTHING has to go through gerrard before it leaves our half. Doesnt matter if he's marked or not they will still give him the ball. For me they need to be more confident in their own ability, step up into midfield with the ball if the situation (and space) arises and take more responsibilty with their passing.

Scholes was a playmaker from an attacking midfield position, he never had to play as a defensive midfielder and track people runs in behind him, he had keane and butt for that. Dont think its fair to compare two totally different positions on the pitch.