Ukraine: As it happens.

Egginacup · 04-09-2014 12:55PM

Golovkin p4p best wrote: »

There are simply too many unknowns to come to firm conclusions about this.

Well there is no proof of anything that Russia is accused of actually being true but it doesn't stop the empty vessels in Western governments and their clowns in the media quacking like ducks.

Egginacup · 04-09-2014 12:59PM

gandalf wrote: »

The evidence says otherwise Egg :rolleyes:

http://news.sky.com/story/1329691/sky-films-troops-in-russian-gear-in-ukraine

"Russian military expert Mark Galeotti examined the Sky News images and noted the white ribbons on the lead jeep and white armbands, which he said Russian security forces often use to distinguish their men."

http://www.businessinsider.com/nato-satellite-photo-evidence-russia-lying-about-ukraine-2014-8

"NATO released a series of satellite images on Thursday showing what a top general described as "Russian combat soldiers, equipped with sophisticated heavy weaponry ... operating inside Ukraine’s sovereign territory."

According to a statement posted on the NATO website, the photos "confirmed what NATO and its Allies had been seeing for weeks from other sources." This is a direct contradiction of recent statements made by Kremlin officials and a pro-Russian separatist leader in Ukraine who said all of the Russian troops who had entered the country were on "their vacations" and assisting the separatists on a volunteer basis."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/russia-expands-war-in-eastern-ukraine-amid-web-of-lies-a-989290.html

"Moscow has continued to deny direct involvement in the fighting in eastern Ukraine. But evidence to the contrary continues to mount. NATO says up to 1,000 Russian soldiers have joined the fray and the pro-Russian separatists have made a remarkable turnaround."

http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/267200/speedreads-russia-is-steadily-invading-ukraine-mounting-evidence-shows

"Time's Simon Shuster suggests that Russian President Vladimir Putin is going to have to acknowledge invading Eastern Ukraine. (Russia already seized Crimea from Ukraine in the spring.) If the mounting evidence from Ukraine, NATO, the U.S., and Poland doesn't force Putin's hand, his own citizens might. The mothers of captured Russian soldiers are starting to publicly complain, and Russian online media is buzzing with rumors about casualties from Ukraine, Shuster says. The Russian body bags, he adds, "are likely to force Putin either to come clean and admit his country's intervention in Ukraine, or to face the growing public resentment over his denials."

http://www.channel4.com/news/have-soldiers-selfies-given-away-russias-role-in-ukraine

"Russia continues to deny its soldiers are operating officially in Ukraine. Russian soldiers have been rushing to delete information on Instagram that may tell a different story."

https://bellingcat.com/news/mena/2014/08/27/revealed-around-40-russian-troops-from-pskov-died-in-the-ukraine-reinforcement-sent-in/

"The instagram account of a Russian soldier who has recently returned to base from fighting in the Ukraine reveals the rough number of casualties in 76th Airbourne regiment from Pskov and proves Russian activity on Ukrainian territory."

http://businessnewsandwire.com/russian-soldiers-selfies-were-taken-in-ukraine-located-thanks-to-gps/

"A Russian soldier may be in some hot water these days after getting a little carried away with his smart phone. He wasn’t doing anything that others wouldn’t do. He was simply posting a couple of selfies and talking about how calming his day was. However, he didn’t realize that his GPS location feature was on. The pictures revealed that he was posting from Ukraine. Although it’s fairly known that Russian soldiers are assisting Ukrainian nationals who are rebelling against the Ukrainian government, the Russian army denies that its troops have crossed the border."

I'm going to address this crap one step at a time. NATO have the most powerful surveillance, satellite and imaging systems in the world. Why are they using images from some private company like "DigitalGlobe"

The fakery and bullsh1t that is being peddled by the buffoons who are steering this propaganda charade is embarrassing.

Egginacup · 04-09-2014 01:02PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

The Russians are taking a softly softly approach. They're slowly increasing the pressure on Ukraine and pushing the boundary to see what they get away with. They can slowly build their presence in Ukraine to a point where intervening on the Ukrainians behalf would be a very difficult situation.

If Russia had gone in all guns blazing it would have provoked a swifter and stronger for Ukraine and made things more difficult for Russia.

It's pretty clear to see what Putin is doing.

Utter rubbish.

Egginacup · 04-09-2014 01:05PM

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

That kind of paranoia is not healthy.

It's what one has come to expect. Pad out your flimsy arguments with insults and lame quips and then snigger like Beavis and Butthead.

Egginacup · 04-09-2014 01:09PM

comongethappy wrote: »

Unbearable alright.

Troll a/c says there is no invasion despite the world including the Kremlin saying there is.

Top-Gun logic there.... Impossible to defeat.

Can you provide the source or evidence that shows that the Kremlin has confirmed that Russia has invaded Ukraine? Don't go shifting goalposts or some verbal trickery now.
You just stated that the Kremlin said that there was a Russian invasion of Ukraine underway. Give us the details

Gatling · 04-09-2014 01:10PM

Egginacup wrote: »

I'm going to address this crap one step at a time. NATO have the most powerful surveillance, satellite and imaging systems in the world. Why are they using images from some private company like "DigitalGlobe"

The fakery and bullsh1t that is being peddled by the buffoons who are steering this propaganda charade is embarrassing.

You really have no idea when it comes to Nato capabilities whether it be surveillance or military .

Propaganda after propaganda throw nazis fascist every 2nd or 3rd post .

No Independent verified sources or links to remotely back up anything you claim .

Time to be a grown up and either put or withdraw

Peist2007 · 04-09-2014 01:10PM

Any images of russian tanks or battalions in Ukraine to show there is an actual invasion happening?

Timberrrrrrrr · 04-09-2014 01:11PM

Egginacup wrote: »

It's what one has come to expect. Pad out your flimsy arguments with insults and lame quips and then snigger like Beavis and Butthead.

:rolleyes:

Egginacup · 04-09-2014 01:13PM

black_frosch wrote: »

I see you love and support Russia a lot just wondering if you would like to immigrate there?

If that's your contribution, which is fairly predictable fare I must admit, then don't address me again. This kind of nonsense isn't worthy of response.

Gatling · 04-09-2014 01:18PM

Egginacup wrote: »

If that's your contribution, which is fairly predictable fare I must admit, then don't address me again. This kind of nonsense isn't worthy of response.

Stop trying to derail this discussion to force every to one to bow to your rubbish about propaganda and there's no Russian tanks .artillery, airborne units aka paratroopers and special forces currently in Ukraine on holiday or other reasons .

There might not be Russian tanks in Kiev yet but the rest of the sane world know for a fact there is Russian tanks .artillery. men on the ground in Ukraine

gandalf · 04-09-2014 01:25PM

Egginacup wrote: »

I'm going to address this crap one step at a time. NATO have the most powerful surveillance, satellite and imaging systems in the world. Why are they using images from some private company like "DigitalGlobe"

The fakery and bullsh1t that is being peddled by the buffoons who are steering this propaganda charade is embarrassing.

I would say they are using a commercial organisation so independents can verify the images as they would have access to them from source as well. This would be to negate the tinfoil hat brigades charges of image manipulation.

If this is the standard of your rebuttal I look forward to the rest, it's very entertaining to say the least.

/me gets popcorn and awaits the rest of Egg's rebuttal with baited breath.

Gatling · 04-09-2014 01:28PM

gandalf wrote: »

I would say they are using a commercial organisation so independents can verify the images as they would have access to them from source as well. This would be to negate the tinfoil hat brigades charges of image manipulation.

If this is the standard of your rebuttal I look forward to the rest, it's very entertaining to say the least.

/me gets popcorn and awaits the rest of Egg's rebuttal with baited breath.

Everyone is welcome to come to my place,
I might even bake while we await a coherent response

gandalf · 04-09-2014 01:33PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Any images of russian tanks or battalions in Ukraine to show there is an actual invasion happening?

Apparently the Ukraine don't have any T72's but the Rebels do? Where did they come from then ?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28961080

Russia has consistently denied sending tanks into Ukraine, arguing that any vehicles used by separatist forces there must have been captured from the Ukrainian army itself.

But now experts at the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) in London have told the BBC that they have identified a Russian tank in a separatist column in eastern Ukraine that they say could only have come from across the border in Russia.

Autonomous Cowherd · 04-09-2014 01:44PM

May I know who is the moderator of this thread? I would like to leave a complaint about the persistent, ridiculous ad hominen attacks on EggInACup, in the place of valid discussion. To deem another boards poster a shill or a troll persistently for over 450 pages, while not adding much to the actual debate in the thread by way of verifiable facts or even interesting quid pro quo, is surely contrary to fair play here? I find it makes me feel uncomfortable. It is a bullying atmosphere.

Timberrrrrrrr · 04-09-2014 01:48PM

Nato Says 3,000 Russian Troops Are In Ukraine

htt p://news.sky.com/story/1330146/nato-says-3000-russian-troops-are-in-ukraine

Nato has told Sky News that 3,000 combat troops and hundreds of armoured vehicles are inside Ukraine.

"We are still seeing several thousand Russian combat troops on the ground inside Ukraine, equipped with hundreds of tanks and armoured vehicles, so (there is) no substantial change in the disposition of Russian forces inside Ukraine," the official said, adding that around 20,000 Russian troops remain close to the Ukraine border.

Elmer Blooker · 04-09-2014 01:59PM

The reality of the situation is that Russia doesn't even have to invade. The Ukrainian army (do they even get paid?) is a reflection of the Kiev "government" which is basically a joke with no one in control as the country falls apart. On the other hand the ethnic Russians are on home ground and know exactly what they are fighting for.
Of course Kiev will say Russia invaded. What do you expect them to say?
".... our army ran away because they don't to die for nothing"

I almost fell sorry for anyone who believes what NATO tells them. They are known compulsive liars.

gandalf · 04-09-2014 02:02PM

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

May I know who is the moderator of this thread? I would like to leave a complaint about the persistent, ridiculous ad hominen attacks on EggInACup, in the place of valid discussion. To deem another boards poster a shill or a troll persistently for over 450 pages, while not adding much to the actual debate in the thread by way of verifiable facts or even interesting quid pro quo, is surely contrary to fair play here? I find it makes me feel uncomfortable. It is a bullying atmosphere.

Why don't you report the posts you find uncomfortable.

Its this

icon on the left hand side of the post in question.

Peist2007 · 04-09-2014 02:26PM

gandalf wrote: »

Apparently the Ukraine don't have any T72's but the Rebels do? Where did they come from then ?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28961080

I think by now words in a bbc, guardian article etc have been roundly recognised for the bull they are. Have a look at the Guardian comments sections, everyone calling them out.

It's very simple. Is there evidence of Russian army tanks and battallions fighting in Ukraine? I'm not interested in what a bbc news reporter says to be honest. They have lied in the past and are clearly following their government's narrative yet again. David Kelly anyone? No time for the BBC. So please, pictures please of this Russian invasion. Trust me, if there were any, it would be all over said BBC instead of what you have put up.

Seriously, cant you see that you're simply following propoganda? I expect a "Russia deals in propoganda too" but that isnt my point. My point is that none of the media in this can be trusted. We need primary evidence from primary sources. None of which seems to exist.

Peist2007 · 04-09-2014 02:28PM

gandalf wrote: »

Why don't you report the posts you find uncomfortable.

Its this icon on the left hand side of the post in question.

In fairness Gandalph, Egg may be getting a little excited but he is throwing out more facts than most who are arguing with him. Disagree and ignore what he is saying all you like but if the only response is that "oh you putinbot" then dont expect any sane people to listen to your side of the argument.

Peist2007 · 04-09-2014 02:30PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The reality of the situation is that Russia doesn't even have to invade. The Ukrainian army (do they even get paid?) is a reflection of the Kiev "government" which is basically a joke with no one in control as the country falls apart. On the other hand the ethnic Russians are on home ground and know exactly what they are fighting for.
Of course Kiev will say Russia invaded. What do you expect them to say?
".... our army ran away because they don't to die for nothing"

I almost fell sorry for anyone who believes what NATO tells them. They are known compulsive liars.

It's the head in the sand. People arguing against the official western narrative are putting up links to BBC, Guardian, Spiegel etc as if those are bastions of truth.

Twain was right when he said its easier to fool someone than convince them they've been fooled

Autonomous Cowherd · 04-09-2014 02:30PM

gandalf wrote: »

Why don't you report the posts you find uncomfortable.

Its this icon on the left hand side of the post in question.

Thank You. I did not know how that. I did a search and did not come up with a reply that indicated that. I will know for future reference...appreciate it

Peist2007 · 04-09-2014 02:43PM

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

May I know who is the moderator of this thread? I would like to leave a complaint about the persistent, ridiculous ad hominen attacks on EggInACup, in the place of valid discussion. To deem another boards poster a shill or a troll persistently for over 450 pages, while not adding much to the actual debate in the thread by way of verifiable facts or even interesting quid pro quo, is surely contrary to fair play here? I find it makes me feel uncomfortable. It is a bullying atmosphere.

I am starting to wonder whether there are contributors being paid by Western agencies also in this battle of propoganda. Some lads in here must literally have no jobs and be completely content to spout the same nonsense over and over. Maybe the initial reports of Russian "putin-bots" were simply an attempt to hide what is actually being done. Some of the support is too blind and unquestioning to be legitimate or at least i suspect it is.

darkpagandeath · 04-09-2014 02:53PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

I am starting to wonder whether there are contributors being paid by Western agencies also in this battle of propoganda. Some lads in here must literally have no jobs and be completely content to spout the same nonsense over and over. Maybe the initial reports of Russian "putin-bots" were simply an attempt to hide what is actually being done. Some of the support is too blind and unquestioning to be legitimate or at least i suspect it is.

I'm sure you will have proof then the western media outlets, All of them are ran by governments with a narrative in the west ? Governments in the west can only dream of having something like RT. Is odd all the media outlets reporting the same thing. Hey it even maybe true if they are keeping the kind of information coming out. Think its a bit rich coming on here and saying people who either don't believe all these CT or are not agreeing with RT are western obama-bots. This is an Irish based form why would we listen to Obama ?

Egginacup · 04-09-2014 03:03PM

gandalf wrote: »

I would say they are using a commercial organisation so independents can verify the images as they would have access to them from source as well. This would be to negate the tinfoil hat brigades charges of image manipulation.

If this is the standard of your rebuttal I look forward to the rest, it's very entertaining to say the least.

/me gets popcorn and awaits the rest of Egg's rebuttal with baited breath.

Why would you say that? Are you just making this up? What do you know about the process of releasing graphic evidence and what the verification process is? It's the usual tiresome trick of alluding to something and then when it's questioned some vague excuse or wishy-washy explanation is fabricated. It's akin to some White House staffer coming out with an allusion and claiming it as ironclad fact. When asked to provide evidence of this so-called fact he claims that the evidence cannot be made known "on the grounds that it might jeopardise national security" or some such infantile drivel.

pablomakaveli · 04-09-2014 03:10PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Utter rubbish.

Fantastic rebuttal. Quality post there.:rolleyes:

Egginacup · 04-09-2014 03:13PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

I think by now words in a bbc, guardian article etc have been roundly recognised for the bull they are. Have a look at the Guardian comments sections, everyone calling them out.

It's very simple. Is there evidence of Russian army tanks and battallions fighting in Ukraine? I'm not interested in what a bbc news reporter says to be honest. They have lied in the past and are clearly following their government's narrative yet again. David Kelly anyone? No time for the BBC. So please, pictures please of this Russian invasion. Trust me, if there were any, it would be all over said BBC instead of what you have put up.

Seriously, cant you see that you're simply following propoganda? I expect a "Russia deals in propoganda too" but that isnt my point. My point is that none of the media in this can be trusted. We need primary evidence from primary sources. None of which seems to exist.

Indeed. It would be so very, VERY easy to have some (real) reporters on the ground with crews filming the machinations of these thousands of Russian troops, tanks, armoured vehicles and munitions. Of course the usual Alice In Wonderland excuse that the Russians are experts at sniffing out photographers and curtailing their movements and activities will be trotted out. Western intelligence operations can infiltrate, record and film paedophile rings, drug smuggling operations, gun-running outfits, foreign governments, etc. They can snoop on everyone and anyone but they just can't seem to provide photographic evidence of a bloody INVASION in the open countryside?

pablomakaveli · 04-09-2014 03:15PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm sure you will have proof then the western media outlets, All of them are ran by governments with a narrative in the west ? Governments in the west can only dream of having something like RT. Is odd all the media outlets reporting the same thing. Hey it even maybe true if they are keeping the kind of information coming out. Think its a bit rich coming on here and saying people who either don't believe all these CT or are not agreeing with RT are western obama-bots. This is an Irish based form why would we listen to Obama ?

All this "head in the sand" nonsense is getting ridiculous now. Seems some posters on here think that because they hate the west they are more "aware" than those who don't automatically blame the west for every little thing wrong with the world.

KERSPLAT! · 04-09-2014 03:23PM

MOD

Serious amount of reported posts flying in. Gimmie some time to go through it, thanks

-KERSPLAT!

KERSPLAT! · 04-09-2014 04:09PM

Thread reopened

Cards and bans have been given, please bear in mind the charter, keep it civil and discuss the topic at hand.

Thanks

-KERSPLAT!

Autonomous Cowherd · 04-09-2014 04:21PM

Seriously?? Egg was the one who got banned...???!!

*Presses unfollow

Ukraine: As it happens.

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