Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Maximus Alexander · 21-08-2014 03:29PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Sorry you're right, you know more about football than Paul Scholes. Better?

Peist2007 wrote: »

What formation did you play in for 99% of your professional career at the very top?

Here what's all this about? Are you trying to say that all former footballers make excellent pundits, provide flawless analysis of tactics, and are perfect judges of player ability?

Alf Veedersane · 21-08-2014 03:29PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

The formation he played with at United may indicate he didnt play in a team with 3 centre backs but i am sure he had to, you know, prepare tactically for facing teams with 3 centre backs, no? He would have got to see exactly how the 3 centre back system evolved in Europe after the Ajax win in 1995. No?

It doesn't necessarily work like that. Players differ.

Solskjaer was brilliant at watching the opposition and analysing how to best exploit their weaknesses.

Most players aren't capacble of that though. They're told what to do and of course players like Scholes will bring their instinct and ability to bear on that.

But that doesn't mean he'd be any the wiser of how a 5-3-2 works after playing against a team that plays with it.

Winston Payne · 21-08-2014 03:30PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

No, i think that Scholes is not eloquent and any time i have seen him interviewed he comes across as a man of few words.

I didn't mention his eloquence, or lack of, anywhere. I don't expect him to be eloquent. You don't have to be florid to express your point in clear English. Didi Hamann isn't eloquent, but he seems to manage just fine.

Peist2007 wrote: »

So to expect him to elucidate on the tactical ramifications of 3 centre halves to BT Sport viewers was unlikely to happen.

So he doesn't fully inform the viewer then. This is a failing. He had enough time to point out what was happening between the defence and midfield, he was given at least a minute to speak. There's no real excuses here for him.

Peist2007 wrote: »

And i never said it worked that way. Of the various ex-player pundits around there are more that i do not think have a clue than those i do. But to have Scholes' views "disregarded" and then to give your own opinion as if it carries more weight is funny in my opinion.

What carries weight is logic and sound argument. The pundit will not always have these qualities on show, and sometimes posters here will.

Scholes' views are not being disregarded here They are being assessed and challenged.

Peist2007 wrote: »

The very definition of internet football punditry.

Well...I mean, yes? That's the point of the thread, to discuss things.

Zico · 21-08-2014 03:30PM

Scholes failing to compliment the emperor's new clothes has ruffled a few feathers it seems.

Lord TSC · 21-08-2014 03:31PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

What formation did you play in for 99% of your professional career at the very top?

I can't sing, but I can tell you if you're in tune or not.

If we're cutting down on people who haven't played professionally from having opinions, we can shut this entire forum down....

MisterAnarchy · 21-08-2014 03:33PM

Khedira is exactly what Utd need ,a quality box to box midfielder .
He'd be a bargain at anything less than 25m euro .

With only a year left on his contract though I suspect he will run it down and leave on a free transfer next June with a massive signing on fee for himself.

Di Maria is not really needed and certainly not at that hugely inflated price.
A little less than a year ago Real were trying to offload him in a swap deal for Bale ,I think they had him valued at 30m euro ,now they are looking for 2.5 times that.
He is a very hot and cold player ,he had a good season last year but no way is he worth anything over 35m euro.

I cant believe Ashley Young is earning £118k a week ,he isnt even worth 118 pounds a week.

KombuchaMshroom · 21-08-2014 03:34PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

So are we all in agreement that Pro F knows more about playing 3 at the back than Paul Scholes? :pac:

Peist2007 wrote: »

Sorry you're right, you know more about football than Paul Scholes. Better?

Peist2007 wrote: »

What formation did you play in for 99% of your professional career at the very top?

Made this point only 10 posts up but it was a bit long so I'll shorten and simplify it as much as possible.

People are allowed disagree with what a professional footballer said!!

I'm not saying you are wrong to agree with whatever Scholes said, but by supporting your argument by simply saying "Scholes said it and he knows more than you so he has to be right" is just laziness and a little childish.

Scholes has a great footballing brain and understanding of the game as a player, but that doesn't mean he is some sort of flawless being who's every thought and opinion is fact. If it was Fergie would have retired 10 years ago and put him in charge instead. He is as capable of being wrong as the rest of us.

MagicIRL · 21-08-2014 03:36PM

homerjay2005 · 21-08-2014 03:36PM

Zico wrote: »

Scholes failing to compliment the emperor's new clothes has ruffled a few feathers it seems.

if it ruffles Woodward into action, then its a win win. i cant imagine Woodward to be in a good place today.

markcahill1985 · 21-08-2014 03:40PM

We should go all out and offer 80m EUR for Khedeira and Di Maria IMO, thats if Vidal is def not on the table, signing those two would make us title contenders I feel, perhaps Blind also and we would be set. Khedeira is a top player.

Vic Vinegar · 21-08-2014 03:40PM

Evans, Rafael and Valencia back in training and should be ready for the weekend, injury crisis easing somewhat.

Lord TSC · 21-08-2014 03:41PM

Reading on Reddit that Woodward's office number leaked today online, and that he's had to disconnect it now, since they were getting loads of calls telling (his secretary) to sign DiMaria....

Hank Scorpio · 21-08-2014 03:41PM

Scholes doesn't think the current CB's are up to it, obviously they were really exposed last Saturday and I get the point being made about the formation/setup not offering them enough protection. He cited Jones doesn't sense danger like a top CB should and none of them being good leaders on the pitch. The guy knows more about those players than anyone so to condemn them like that is pretty damning. We all know they're not Rio Vidic level but for him to say go out and buy Varane and Hummels to replace them is slightly worrying in inself

MagicIRL · 21-08-2014 03:44PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Reading on Reddit that Woodward's office number leaked today online, and that he's had to disconnect it now, since they were getting loads of calls telling (his secretary) to sign DiMaria....

D'ya reckon he got the message?

twam2008 · 21-08-2014 03:44PM

I think one of the main points Scholes was making was that we lack a leader in defence, I don't think he would have said it about any of the past central defenders he worked with, it is a worry, and has been brought up on here a good few times already.

RobbingBandit · 21-08-2014 03:44PM

Anyone stop to think Scholes might be miffed he didn't get a place along side Giggs in the new regime.

homerjay2005 · 21-08-2014 03:45PM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Anyone stop to think Scholes might be miffed he didn't get a place along side Giggs in the new regime.

no, he is just saying what most people see - its not rocket science by any means, the problems are that obvious to almost everybody.

KombuchaMshroom · 21-08-2014 03:46PM

In less argumentative news, Mata just did that Ice bucket challenge thing and nominated Rojo as one of his picks. He has quickly established himself as part of the bromance (or broorgy by now there is so many of them) that is the Spanish speaking amigos.

Robson99 · 21-08-2014 03:47PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

The formation he played with at United may indicate he didnt play in a team with 3 centre backs but i am sure he had to, you know, prepare tactically for facing teams with 3 centre backs, no? He would have got to see exactly how the 3 centre back system evolved in Europe after the Ajax win in 1995. No?

What formation did you play in for 99% of your professional career at the very top?

You bet me to it Peist. From Scholes not knowing what hes talking about to not having heard of a 352 system before because we played 442. What total tarmac talk.
I think its fairly safe to assume Scholes could educate everyone here as to tactics formations etc.
Also it shouldn't take centre half long to understand the basics of defending no matter what formation the are set up in. They are pros gettin paid week in week out.
Judging him on 5 min air space after the game and not going into a detailed explanation is also muck. I'm pretty sure he could have spent an hour on the subject if time allowed

MisterAnarchy · 21-08-2014 03:53PM

markcahill1985 wrote: »

We should go all out and offer 80m EUR for Khedeira and Di Maria IMO, thats if Vidal is def not on the table, signing those two would make us title contenders I feel, perhaps Blind also and we would be set. Khedeira is a top player.

Some places are reporting Khedira could be available for 15m euro ,its a no brainer at that price ,the club must try to sign him.
Herrera ,Khedira and Vidal has a nice ring to it .

ericzeking · 21-08-2014 03:53PM

Peist2007 wrote: »

The formation he played with at United may indicate he didnt play in a team with 3 centre backs but i am sure he had to, you know, prepare tactically for facing teams with 3 centre backs, no? He would have got to see exactly how the 3 centre back system evolved in Europe after the Ajax win in 1995. No?

What formation did you play in for 99% of your professional career at the very top?

I played in goals for my career, more GAA though for me, if you want to make it to 'the very top'...you have to pick one or the other!! :pac::pac::pac:

You are getting super excited by the fact I and others said his punditry was lacking....I actually referenced his lack of eloquence as to how he gets his point across.

No one is saying he doesn't understand football. We all loved him as a player.

You sound like a typical overly partisan blinkered fan, just because someone is a club legend you're going to revere absolutely everything about them, regardless. It's impossible to discuss anything with someone like that.

Lord TSC · 21-08-2014 03:54PM

It would be funny if we signed Khedira for the touted 15-20m, given they turned down a bid of 40m from us this time last year....

Zico · 21-08-2014 03:59PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

It would be funny if we signed Khedira for the touted 15-20m, given they turned down a bid of 40m from us this time last year....

I nearly forgot we tried to buy absolutely everyone last summer.:)

I'd love to see the look on Ed Woodward's face when the offer was accepted. He'd probably quit there and then realising he'll never understand how this stuff works.

Pro. F · 21-08-2014 04:00PM

nuxxx wrote: »

Scholes doesn't think the current CB's are up to it, obviously they were really exposed last Saturday and I get the point being made about the formation/setup not offering them enough protection. He cited Jones doesn't sense danger like a top CB should and none of them being good leaders on the pitch. The guy knows more about those players than anyone so to condemn them like that is pretty damning. We all know they're not Rio Vidic level but for him to say go out and buy Varane and Hummels to replace them is slightly worrying in inself

As of this moment Scholes has done nothing to prove that he is a reliable judge of centre-backs, that he has anything more than a basic midfielder's understanding of defensive organisation or that he has any understanding of the defensive shape of a 3412.

Just because he has was an excellent attacking CM and just because he has worked with these centre-backs does not make his opinions on them automatically valid. When, in expressing those opinions, he neglects to mention crucial considerations about the problems with the team's current defensive shape, then the validity of his opinion on the centre-backs has to be questioned.

secman · 21-08-2014 04:04PM

Pro. F wrote: »

As of this moment Scholes has done nothing to prove that he is a reliable judge of centre-backs, that he has anything more than a basic midfielder's understanding of defensive organisation or that he has any understanding of the defensive shape of a 3412.

Just because he has was an excellent attacking CM and just because he has worked with these centre-backs does not make his opinions on them automatically valid. When, in expressing those opinions, he neglects to mention crucial considerations about the problems with the team's current defensive shape, then the validity of his opinion on the centre-backs has to be questioned.

Except he wasn't a basic midfielder........................ oh to have an 18/19 yr old Scholesy.................

markcahill1985 · 21-08-2014 04:05PM

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Some places are reporting Khedira could be available for 15m euro , .

Unfortunateyl Ed doesnt seem to have abrian when it comes to these things, Krros for 25m EUR and Fab for 30m EUR seemed like no brainers as well

super_furry · 21-08-2014 04:05PM

twam2008 wrote: »

I think one of the main points Scholes was making was that we lack a leader in defence, I don't think he would have said it about any of the past central defenders he worked with, it is a worry, and has been brought up on here a good few times already.

Still baffles me that United let two real leaders in Ferdinand and Vidic leave in the same season along with Evra who would have more of an influence than anyone currently in the United defence.

paulbok · 21-08-2014 04:06PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Is that Fergie after getting that call from J.Magnier?

Peist2007 · 21-08-2014 04:07PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Here what's all this about? Are you trying to say that all former footballers make excellent pundits, provide flawless analysis of tactics, and are perfect judges of player ability?

No. No i am not.

Maximus Alexander · 21-08-2014 04:07PM

secman wrote: »

Except he wasn't a basic midfielder........................ oh to have an 18/19 yr old Scholesy.................

We don't need another striker. :P

Peist2007 wrote: »

No. No i am not.

Well then it's not very clear what those comments are all about.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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