Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Robson99 wrote: »

Alonso would be an upgrade on Fletcher Carrick cleverly and Ando but we still need a Vidal or similar

not having a pop at you here mate just talking more in general, but the bit in bold there has appeared more and more in recent weeks - its a sorta "anybody at this stage will do" attitude.

we could sign multiple very average players and they would be an upgrade on our current options in many places, but that is not saying much - the problem is we need major upgrades.

personally however, i think Alonso is a massive upgrade now on Fletcher and Carrick.

a good few posters towed the "i am happy to wait until the end of the window for the best/right players as opposed to signing players in a panic now" line for several weeks, but it looks like panic and desperation is exactly what Woodward and the board are facing.

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/502379431722487808

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/502380071488073728

homerjay2005 wrote: »

fair play Doc, i think this sums up the entire suituation 100% spot on.

I gave you, Mitch, Headshot and Adox some **** last year(albeit proper discussion) in what I labelled your knee jerk reaction in terms of how we were operating in the transfer market.

I still maybe felt at the time you guys were jumping the gun, but there is simply no denying that over the course of what has transpired, you lot(among others) were simply spot on.

It's really only this window where I've come to terms that lessons simply havn't been learned, and business hasn't been conducted in the way I would expect it to be done.

Cramming essential business into the space of 10 days, that should have been done over 60 days, is nothing short of madness, and I will not be suprised seeing us pay inflated fees for players, if any, that come in.

While Woodward might feel he is not answerable to the fans, it would do him some great service to make an address to the fanbase publicly after this window closes, to try explain what appears to be nothing sort of dropping the ball.

Because there is a big difference. Narrative and opinion is sharply turning on him at present. But I'd appreciate the truth. If we learned that we had offers accepted and provided what we felt were acceptable terms to players, who decided on elsewhere, that is fine. You can only persuade players so much. I believe this is what happened with Kroos.

But even if he admits he fumbled, stuttered and struggled with the demands of making signings, I'd appreciate that fully. It's nieve in the extreme on my part to expect honest, straight answers, but with the worry surrounding the club with the fanbase, I feel it's in their best interest to be as transparent and honest as possible.

A lot of bogus **** went around about him this summer, holidays, working from home with no internet access, attempting a sponsor event when he should have been meeting with a club, losing out on a target over 2m. He's going to get bombshelled at the end of this window. And he would do wise to have a response ready. Hiding and ignoring it won't help, especially after his ludacrous claims earlier this summer.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Money has been spent and top players have been brought in. You think Ed doesn't want to spend? Do you actually think he doesn't want to bring in top players and be a fans hero?

The manager has to indicate the player he wants first. The player has to want to join us and not go to Spain. The Selling club has to want to sell and the agent has to not try to screw us on the deal. I'm sure if LVG wanted Bale, CR7 and they wanted to come Ed would have no problem handing over the money. Its not coming out of his wages after all.

I don't need an education on how transfers work but thanks anyway. We are flirting and fanning around with a lot of top players over the last two seasons and have secured two very good ones, two which we don't know whether they will adopt to the EPL and another who is was a panic buy and not good enough for utd. Signing 5 players over 3 transfer should be part and parcel of any top club. But when you need a squad overhaul and cover for 6 or 7 players leaving then its piss poor. Someone is going to get the blame. Can you see it being LVG?? I was all for giving Woodward a chance after last season but so far the little lad here has learned more about United's problems than he or the board seems to have. FFS Keane has been on about it for the last few seasons and Scholes has it highlighted again. Its both mad and sad whats going on

I think Doc makes a good point about Woodward and Moyes. Moyes deservedly got a lot of the blame last year because the team played awful football and finished in it's lowest ever position.

However, looking at transfers, what has changed? Very little I would say. Shaw and Herrera appear to have been done and just required LVG's approval. Since his appointment we have signed one other player. This is despite Woodwards promises of the wage bill going up and telling us to 'watch this space'.

In my opinion, the problem lies with Woodward and the staff in charge of transfers. I don't think it's unfair to say that City, Chelsea and Liverpool have all strengthened this year and done so relatively quickly, especially in comparison to united. Something is obviously not working because it seems like it takes united months to even decide to make an offer for a player.

LVG knows we need a midfielder or 2. I don't doubt that at all. We know it as fans. Now ex players, who are held in high regard, are saying it. It's a glaringly obvious problem. If something isn't done to address it, something has to change and quickly.

I've probably gone on about transfers a bit lately but it is genuinely because the clubs approach is baffling me. I can't make head or tail of it.

twam2008 wrote: »

Put a £20m bid in for Schneiderlin. Sorted.

Lovely player. Would be delighted to see him at United. He wants out of Southampton, too.

Robson99 wrote: »

I don't need an education on how transfers work but thanks anyway. We are flirting and fanning around with a lot of top players over the last two seasons and have secured two very good ones, two which we don't know whether they will adopt to the EPL and another who is was a panic buy and not good enough for utd. Signing 5 players over 3 transfer should be part and parcel of any top club. But when you need a squad overhaul and cover for 6 or 7 players leaving then its piss poor. Someone is going to get the blame. Can you see it being LVG?? I was all for giving Woodward a chance after last season but so far the little lad here has learned more about United's problems than he or the board seems to have. FFS Keane has been on about it for the last few seasons and Scholes has it highlighted again. Its both mad and sad whats going on

Well LVG dropped our interest in Kroos and Fabregas. LVG said he gave the go ahead on tranfers of Shaw/Herra and Woodward got them done.

There is no question that we need more players, 3 makes this an average window, another CM and CB are needed. Its the whos at fault bickering thats annoying with people tlaking as if they know whats exactly is happeneing.

I said it before, LVG dropping the Kroos interest and not going for Cesc was bizzare. We could have had a world class MF weeks ago and three weeks to assess the squad when its obvious that defenders were needed purely from a numbers point of view.

Robson99 wrote: »

Better player than Carrick IMO

perhaps but at his age its not by much

On the topic of two signings in 24 hours...

Rojo himself has said we've been negotiating since the WC ended. Perhaps, genuinely, the length of this transfer was completey out of United's hands because of the bandy 3rd part ownership nonsense?

Your Airbag wrote: »

Well LVG dropped our interest in Kroos and Fabregas. LVG said he gave the go ahead on tranfers of Shaw/Herra and Woodward got them done.

There is no question that we need more players, 3 makes this an average window, another CM and CB are needed. Its the whos at fault bickering thats annoying with people tlaking as if they know whats exactly is happeneing.

I said it before, LVG dropping the Kroos interest and not going for Cesc was bizzare. We could have had a world class MF weeks ago and three weeks to assess the squad when its obvious that defenders were needed purely from a numbers point of view.

I'd imagine the Shaw and Herrera deals were set in motion last season, with Herrera it was case of paying the buy-out clause, which many felt was too high, hence I don't think it would have been difficult, with Shaw we payed £30m for a 19 year old defender, money talked. We have no way of knowing who Van Gaal has or hasn't asked for. What we do know is that he will have more likely given Woodward a list of players that he wants, much like what Moyes probably did. And at the end of the transfer window we will know how successful or unsuccessful Woodward was with that list. And I suspect it will be about as successful as he was last year with said list.

MagicIRL wrote: »

On the topic of two signings in 24 hours...

Rojo himself has said we've been negotiating since the WC ended. Perhaps, genuinely, the length of this transfer was completey out of United's hands because of the bandy 3rd part ownership nonsense?

of course, ya its possible.

lets not forget though, herrera was "almost" signed 10 months earlier and Shaw was pretty much accepted as "done" since early May, after being heavily linked in January....they didnt exactly just get done in 24 hours, it took several months...which then further enhances my theory about perhaps rushing transfers through before EOY kicked in.

and regardig Rojo, i believe we were interested in him (we'd not just buy a player without scouting him like Bebe ever again surely) BUT, i think it was a case of Hummels > Vermaelen > Rojo and when the first two didnt work, we went straight for Rojo.

its no coincidence that the Rojo talk started a few days after we allegedly pulled out of Vermaelen.

This time last year this thread was a awash with complaints that the club was so transparent in their transfer interests leading them to be scuppered and the club embarrassed, now this thread is awash with complaints that there is no evidence of negotiations in progress.

I personally am going to hold out on at least one more signing before the end of the window, and will have to have faith in LVG getting more out of the existing players than Moyes did.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

not sure if ye read my post late last night, but the fact that we had two signings in the space of 24 hours, 3 days before our end of year finances were closed, makes me suspicious about how our business is being conducted. maybe and i stress maybe, LVG didnt have full control over those signings, he could have been told the money needed to be spent before the EOY closed and he agreed with Shaw and Herrera. now of course, it could just be a massive coincidence and just happened like that, but £22.4million worth of wage cuts kicked in 4 days later and then we didnt spend a penny for 7 weeks. Q1 finances will close end of September...are we spreading the cost of transfers across windows, or more to the point restriced in what we can pay up front, therefore deals are hard to close?

i guess thats the risk when a fund accountant is running out business, its going to be based towards financial goals, as opposed to football.

My understanding on how United recognise transfer fees is that they are ammortised over the contract life of the player. Thus the 16M spent on Rojo is recognised over the next 60 months etc - this would make it redundant from a finacials point of view in terms of when bought the players.

From what I read at the time (was on holidays so thankfully read feck all) the Herrara deal needed to go through before June 30 or his release clause went up (lesson learnt from last year). Shaw I would imagine was just timing in that it was completed as soon as he got back from the WC and before someone else swooped for him.

I honestly don't think finances are the issue here (although there may still be penny pinching going on) but rather selling Man Utd is more difficult than we'd all like to believe.