Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:28PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

It doesn't matter. You could but Madrid with borrowed money and keep the wheels on the track.
But another guy could buy them with his own money and the club would not have to pay back on any borrowings. Get it?

He would look for money back on his investment???

Similar to interest?

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 07:29PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Which is also money we never would of had. But that's just oppurtunity cost of that money.

But the loan was created by the bank, the bank had that money in deposits, so that money gets transferred to United/whoever.

What happens to that money? Someone owned that money right?
Yes. But the bank knows someone isn't going to come in and withdraw all their money. People withdraw 20 quid every few days, we can agree on that right?

And the bank knows for sure, all their depositors aren't going to come in one day and withdraw all their money. Banks only hold a % of their deposits. The rest is tied up in loans and investments.

So yes, the money never really existed in physical terms.

The bank could have said no but that money would still have gone from the bank to a johnny or Mary buying their car.

The only risk is if United did a Leeds and went broke.

I understand the perception people have of the loan but it's wrong.

Debt can be easily managed when you make **** loads of money and banks want to do business with you.

Big and successful businesses go bust all the time because of failed bets leverage against their assets by financiers who take on little to no personal risk in the venture.

MagicMarker · 20-08-2014 07:29PM

Has Rojo had any kind of pre-season?

RayCun · 20-08-2014 07:31PM

Sarai Brief Thriller wrote: »

On the Glazers - I find it difficult to see a difference in the pattern of spending before and after they arrived. There's been plenty of money spent since they took over, unfortunately a huge amount of it has been completely misdirected.

net spend in the years before they took over

04/05 21m (including Rooney)
03/04 13m
02/03 27m
01/02 29m
00/01 -8m
99/00 16m

average 16m a year

In the years after they took over

05/06 1m
06/07 4m
07/08 26m
08/09 33m
09/10 -64m
10/11 13m
11/12 38m

average just over 7m a year

and then consider inflation, and look at what the competition was spending in the same period...

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:33PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

He would look for money back on his investment???

Similar to interest?

he may see the club as an asset, one that isn't risked by investing in bonds. Why do you think wealthy people buy art...?
Or he could draw down money from earnings, but certainly not to the extent that Glazers have with united.

It's been a golden goose for them from day one.

You're very naive if you think they've been good for the club.

RobbingBandit · 20-08-2014 07:34PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

When you factor in Nani's wages, about 4.8 million a year, it looks like the total outlay for Rojo will be over £20 million, I didn't think he was great at the World Cup but that's only a few games and I'll give him a fair go, if LVG has bought him he must have something about him

I think Vidal wants to move and United want to buy him, I wouldn't pay much attention to what Juve say as I think they are waiting for Vidal to say he wants to leave so they don't look like the bad guys in this. Although if he is back fit now and we don't move for him this week I don't think it will happen

If Nani gets match fit and sparks up an interest again the money is well spent versus him being a fringe player sitting on the bench and still getting the same payment.

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:36PM

RayCun wrote: »

net spend in the years before they took over

04/05 21m (including Rooney)
03/04 13m
02/03 27m
01/02 29m
00/01 -8m
99/00 16m

average 16m a year

In the years after they took over

05/06 1m
06/07 4m
07/08 26m
08/09 33m
09/10 -64m
10/11 13m
11/12 38m

average just over 7m a year

and then consider inflation, and look at what the competition was spending in the same period...

Thanks for posting this. It's a very clear indicator that disproves this insane theory that they've backed the club more than the previous owners, or any possible owner that might have taken us on.

homerjay2005 · 20-08-2014 07:38PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Rvp fit for Sunderland.

if we put out the same team as last week, i dont think we will win. with RVP in and Rojo at LB, it improves us. go a flat back 4 with adnan and young on wings and id fancy us to win.

the sad thing now is that Fletcher or Cleverly will probably start in midfield..

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:39PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

he may see the club as an asset, one that isn't risked by investing in bonds. Why do you think wealthy people buy art...?
Or he could draw down money from earnings, but certainly not to the extent that Glazers have with united.

It's been a golden goose for them from day one.

You're very naive if you think they've been good for the club.

Ffs comparing art to spending hundreds of millions of euro buying a football club.

Yes, the glazers want money. I'm not going to begrudge them with the success we have had over the years. They are entitled to it.

Who knows, we might have had the same if not more without them. Hard to tell and we can only look at what we have now and going by it they have done a fantastic job.

Obviously if it was the other way around, I wouldn't feel the same way about them.

thelad95 · 20-08-2014 07:39PM

This isn't a big issue but what's with the large font on the jerseys? It means that Ander Herrera and now Marcos Rojo name's kind of arch awkwardly to fit in all the letters and it looks pretty amateurish to be honest.

MagicMarker · 20-08-2014 07:42PM

thelad95 wrote: »

.... kind of arch awkwardly to fit in all the letters and it looks pretty amateurish to be honest.

Jesus, the club just can't do anything right can they?

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:42PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if we put out the same team as last week, i dont think we will win. with RVP in and Rojo at LB, it improves us. go a flat back 4 with adnan and young on wings and id fancy us to win.

the sad thing now is that Fletcher or Cleverly will probably start in midfield..

De Gea

Rafeal--Jones--Smalling--Evans--Rojo

Herrera--Fletcher

Mata
Rooney--Rvp

That team should beat Sunderland every time. Still lacking in midfield though.

RayCun · 20-08-2014 07:42PM

you could argue that the Glazers improved the commercial side of the club, and they are the reason why the club is making so much money from sponsorship now. But the reason they put energy into the commercial side is that they needed to take money out of the club to repay the money they borrowed to buy it. And that money they took out caused higher ticket prices, and was money that wasn't available for transfers.
the club has come through it, but at the cost of several years of losing ground on the opposition. And if the club hadn't come through it - if Ferguson had retired, or Ronaldo broken his leg at 18 and never played again, or other things had gone wrong - the Glazers would have been able to sell up and get their money back while United could have done a Leeds.

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:43PM

RayCun wrote: »

net spend in the years before they took over

04/05 21m (including Rooney)
03/04 13m
02/03 27m
01/02 29m
00/01 -8m
99/00 16m

average 16m a year

In the years after they took over

05/06 1m
06/07 4m
07/08 26m
08/09 33m
09/10 -64m
10/11 13m
11/12 38m

average just over 7m a year

and then consider inflation, and look at what the competition was spending in the same period...

Throw up a gross spend there.

I could paint a picture saying since the glazers have come in we have been getting more money for selling our players. Aren't they great.

But you went for the opposite.

Put up a gross spend and stop twisting stats to suit yourself.

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 07:45PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

I suppose hindsight is great in these cases.

Anything could have happened, you're right.

But I would like to trust the guys who did the deal. I don't have a reason not to.

That was their job

No, their job was to make money for themselves, not to ensure the financial security of this particular football club.

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:47PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ffs comparing art to spending hundreds of millions of euro buying a football club.

Yes, the glazers want money. I'm not going to begrudge them with the success we have had over the years. They are entitled to it.

Who knows, we might have had the same if not more without them. Hard to tell and we can only look at what we have now and going by it they have done a fantastic job.

Obviously if it was the other way around, I wouldn't feel the same way about them.

Works of art can cost hundreds of millions.
Explain this success they have had, please. Just do me that one small favour.

They way I see it, they borrowed heavily to buy a solid, successful football club. Heaped debt onto that club. The hard work of many at the club, and the genius that is Sir Alex achieved the success. They sat back and sucked the blood from the club. Our success was stunted because of them. We were the top club in Europe a few years ago, and we were spending like Newcastle.

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:48PM

Pro. F wrote: »

No, there job was to make money for themselves, not to ensure financial security for this particular football club.

Ya. I agree with that. They did it for money, of course.

But also made us successful.

They did both.

I'm not a big fan of oil money being poured in, but the glazers worked hard, rather than throwing money

Rayne Wooney · 20-08-2014 07:49PM

Why couldn't they just put Rojo on the jersey? He's hardly going to be mixed up with another one at the club

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 07:49PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ffs comparing art to spending hundreds of millions of euro buying a football club.

Yes, the glazers want money. I'm not going to begrudge them with the success we have had over the years. They are entitled to it.

Who knows, we might have had the same if not more without them. Hard to tell and we can only look at what we have now and going by it they have done a fantastic job.

Obviously if it was the other way around, I wouldn't feel the same way about them.

Judging risk retrospectively based on results does not work.

KH25 · 20-08-2014 07:50PM

So...any rumours at all on any other signings?

Copper_pipe · 20-08-2014 07:51PM

KH25 wrote: »

So...any rumours at all on any other signings?

Vidal on a 2 year contract with Vodafone

MagicMarker · 20-08-2014 07:51PM

Rojo: I will give everything for United

Marcos Rojo gave his exclusive first interview to MUTV, saying that he has joined the world's biggest club and promises to give everything on the pitch...

Welcome to Manchester United. How does it feel to be here and to be signing for this club?
Thanks very much. I'm very happy as this is a big step forward in my career and it's amazing to be joining the biggest club in the world.

What do you know about the club, the history, the players?
I know a lot about the club because I always follow the Premier League and Manchester United were always my team because they were the biggest and the best. Juan Sebastian Veron played for United and was a great player and I always watched his progress. United were always my club.

There has been a lot of talk and speculation about the move. How have the last few days been for you?
It's taken a while for everything to get sorted out because these transfers can be very difficult, but I'm so happy to be here at Manchester United.

How did you feel when you heard for the first time that Louis van Gaal wanted to sign you?
It was unbelievable. We played against his team in the World Cup and they were excellent. When I heard that he wanted me to come here I was very happy but also very proud and very excited to get an opportunity at a club like this.

What do you think your best qualities are as a footballer?
I always give everything I have in a game and I leave everything out there on the pitch. I play each game as if it could be my last. That's the most important thing in my philosophy.

What do you think you can achieve here, with the team and also on a personal level?
I think the most important thing is that I keep growing as a player and keep improving. I have worked really hard for this opportunity and now I am at the biggest club in the world and I want to win trophies.

Finally, there are a lot of people here at the club now who can speak Spanish so that should help you settle in and get used to your new surroundings...
Absolutely, that will certainly help me as I get used to life in this country and will help me get settled into the team as quickly as possible.

I love the guy's enthusiasm, could be a fan favourite.

homerjay2005 · 20-08-2014 07:51PM

RayCun wrote: »

yAnd that money they took out caused higher ticket prices

sorry to just pick one point out of your post and ignore the rest of it(as i hate when people do it to me) but just on this part - ticket prices at Old trafford are really reasonable and i see this pop up alot - its a massive myth IMO.

i pay £28 a game and have had the tickets almost 7 years now - they were £25 when we got them, thats a £3 increase in 6 years. i remember my first tickets to Old trafford and other grounds were £25+ 12 years ago.

there are sections that pay £51 in the main stands, but again the increases are relative to prices when they took over and more to the point, relative to the rise in other clubs.

the prices that Arsenal, QPR, Chelsea and Spurs fans pay are just insane and on a different level to ours. City tickets are not much cheaper than ours.

aligator_am · 20-08-2014 07:52PM

Wonder if Wilson will get a run out in the coming games? I was hoping he'd come on at half time against Swansea but forced substitution of Lingard snookered that.

elchupanebrey · 20-08-2014 07:53PM

RayCun wrote: »

net spend in the years before they took over

04/05 21m (including Rooney)
03/04 13m
02/03 27m
01/02 29m
00/01 -8m
99/00 16m

average 16m a year

In the years after they took over

05/06 1m
06/07 4m
07/08 26m
08/09 33m
09/10 -64m
10/11 13m
11/12 38m

average just over 7m a year

and then consider inflation, and look at what the competition was spending in the same period...

Are 12/13 and 13/14 not part of the "after they took over" section

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:53PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Throw up a gross spend there.

I could paint a picture saying since the glazers have come in we have been getting more money for selling our players. Aren't they great.

But you went for the opposite.

Put up a gross spend and stop twisting stats to suit yourself.

01-02 - £57M
02 - 03 - £29M
03 - 04 - £53.5M
04 - 05 - £27

the glazer period

05 - 06 - £19.5m
06 -07 - *£18.5m
07 - 08 - £61m
08 - 09 - £35
09 - 10 - £21
10 - 11 - £27
11 - 12 - £52
12 - 13 - £63
13 - 14 - £67

There's your gross. Doesn't make great reading even at face value. Now take into account inflation, and the way transfer fees have sky rocketed in recent years, it does not look good at all.

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:54PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Works of art can cost hundreds of millions.
Explain this success they have had, please. Just do me that one small favour.

They way I see it, they borrowed heavily to buy a solid, successful football club. Heaped debt onto that club. The hard work of many at the club, and the genius that is Sir Alex achieved the success. They sat back and sucked the blood from the club. Our success was stunted because of them. We were the top club in Europe a few years ago, and we were spending like Newcastle.

You have been reading too many of the horror stories. Surely after this summer, you know to not trust the media on these things.

Our success???

Jesus, I actually can't remember the last time we won a trophy or dominated the league and almost winning it 3 seasons in a row only to lose out by a goal.

The 3 cl finals? Nope, can't remember that.

Having the biggest deal in the world? Nope, not us.

Money had always been available. It's not the glazers fault fergie spent it on Liam miller and co.

Money has never been a problem. Do you think that maybe the spending could be down to fergie thinking that his team that is dominating the English league didn't always need 80 odd million of investment every year.

He had a winning formula. Why would he change?

Adamocovic · 20-08-2014 07:54PM

KH25 wrote: »

So...any rumours at all on any other signings?

Rumours being rumours I wouldn't read too much into them, but some are linking us with Fredy Guarin and Nicolas Gaitan.

MagicMarker · 20-08-2014 07:54PM

aligator_am wrote: »

Wonder if Wilson will get a run out in the coming games? I was hoping he'd come on at half time against Swansea but forced substitution of Lingard snookered that.

That would have been impressive considering he wasn't even on the bench.

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:55PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ya. I agree with that. They did it for money, of course.

But also made us successful.

They did both.

I'm not a big fan of oil money being poured in, but the glazers worked hard, rather than throwing money

HOW???

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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