Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:04PM

The Pontiac wrote: »

Are you serious?

Yes.

Are you seriously disagreeing?

twam2008 · 20-08-2014 07:04PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

That works both ways, people being "underwhelmed" are as bad as those at the other end of the spectrum.

With the exception that we're admitting not knowing about him. Hope the lad steps up to the challenge.

The Pontiac · 20-08-2014 07:06PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Yes.

Are you seriously disagreeing?

Yes.

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:07PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Which is also money we never would of had. But that's just oppurtunity cost of that money.

But the loan was created by the bank, the bank had that money in deposits, so that money gets transferred to United/whoever.

What happens to that money? Someone owned that money right?
Yes. But the bank knows someone isn't going to come in and withdraw all their money. People withdraw 20 quid every few days, we can agree on that right?

And the bank knows for sure, all their depositors aren't going to come in one day and withdraw all their money. Banks only hold a % of their deposits. The rest is tied up in loans and investments.

So yes, the money never really existed in physical terms.

The bank could have said no but that money would still have gone from the bank to a johnny or Mary buying their car.

The only risk is if United did a Leeds and went broke.

I understand the perception people have of the loan but it's wrong.

Debt can be easily managed when you make **** loads of money and banks want to do business with you.

Hundreds of millions was taken out if the club to pay for their debt. It was invisible money until we had to start payin real earnings to pay it off.

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:08PM

The Pontiac wrote: »

Yes.

Why?

He was one of the best defenders until about 3/4 years ago.

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:08PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Yes. There is a cost.

But would that money be there if it wasn't for the glazers?

I think there is another poster in here who understands economics or finance so he might clear it up better than I have.

I haven't studied loan creation in a few years so I'm probably not being as clear as I can.

But in my opinion, it was a sound business move and has proved to be, even withstanding the recession. That's how sound it was.

You need to go back and learn a good bit more.

onemorechance · 20-08-2014 07:08PM

Blatter wrote: »

I saw a post a few days ago from a Sporting Lisbon fan on Red Cafe where he gave a detailed analysis of Rojo. The gyst of it was that he is often a standout defender (in a good way) but is liable to do stupid things.

Just like Rafael! Will be fun if nothing else to have those two playing out wide! :pac:

Headshot · 20-08-2014 07:08PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Hundreds of millions was taken out if the club to pay for their debt. It was invisible money until we had to start payin real earnings to pay it off.

If I remember right, they have cost the club a billion since they took over

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:13PM

Headshot wrote: »

If I remember right, they have cost the club a billion since they took over

I think it's a billion US dollars.

This guy gives a vague explanation of fractional reserve banking and puts it across as justifying their gamble and heaping debt onto the club.
And also attributing our success in recent years to the glazers.

The mind boggles at times

The Pontiac · 20-08-2014 07:15PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Why?

He was one of the best defenders until about 3/4 years ago.

I wouldn't say he was ever the best in the world.

He's no Maldini or Nesta. SKY Sports might have liked us to believe he was though.

Zico · 20-08-2014 07:16PM

Giving Rojo the No.5 suggests there won't another more experienced defender signed in this window.

The thought of Jonny Evans leading the defence isn't exactly filling me with confidence.

I hope Rojo is bloody amazing.

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:17PM

Rvp fit for Sunderland.

Adamocovic · 20-08-2014 07:18PM

Zico wrote: »

Giving Rojo the No.5 suggests there won't another more experienced defender signed in this window.

The thought of Jonny Evans leading the defence isn't exactly filling me with confidence.

I hope Rojo is bloody amazing.

To be fair to Jonny he seems very vocal when he plays and other players have said he's good and keeping the players on top of their tasks.

I reckon if he has an injury free season he could finally step up to the plate as a leader of the team.

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:18PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I think it's a billion US dollars.

This guy gives a vague explanation of fractional reserve banking and puts it across as justifying their gamble and heaping debt onto the club.
And also attributing our success in recent years to the glazers.

The mind boggles at times

Well my original point was that it wasn't a gamble.

If I went and bought Madrid would that be a gamble? No.

I could still bring in players and future income if I had the right team of staff. Which United do/did

RobbingBandit · 20-08-2014 07:19PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

Rvp fit for Sunderland.

We're back baby.

brinty · 20-08-2014 07:19PM

Zico wrote: »

Giving Rojo the No.5 suggests there won't another more experienced defender signed in this window.

The thought of Jonny Evans leading the defence isn't exactly filling me with confidence.

I hope Rojo is bloody amazing.

It was Daley Blind's number at the World Cup
Guess he's not coming now
Damn it to hell...
Or maybe he just got the first available number????

kryogen · 20-08-2014 07:20PM

The Pontiac wrote: »

Are you serious?

As serious as a heart attack one would wager

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:20PM

The Pontiac wrote: »

I wouldn't say he was ever the best in the world.

He's no Maldini or Nesta. SKY Sports might have liked us to believe he was though.

Yeah I was thinking that as well. There was a handful of players in the 00's who would appear better and rightfully so but on his day Ferdinand could be top of then every so often

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 07:20PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

No.

I asked a question?

Are you gonna answer it?

I don't think we would be where we are now if not for the glazers.

Realistically, it wasn't such a huge risk as some think. United were one of the most successful clubs in the world.
They weren't going to go bust.

I do understand the hate but it's because people don't understand the business behind it or the finance.

They didn't skimp on anything, everything has been expanded and improved.
If you want to blame then for transfers, then you are wrong.

There might not have been as much of a risk as people initially feared, but there was still a significant risk.

Even with the best manager in the history of the game (an old man, who could have retired or fallen ill at any moment) churning out an incredible return on investment for money paid into the football side of the operation - football success being the only asset on which all of the marketability rests - they still had to resort to selling 10% of the club to cover their finances.

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:21PM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Well my original point was that it wasn't a gamble.

If I went and bought Madrid would that be a gamble? No.

I could still bring in players and future income if I had the right team of staff. Which United do/did

It doesn't matter. You could but Madrid with borrowed money and keep the wheels on the track.
But another guy could buy them with his own money and the club would not have to pay back on any borrowings. Get it?

Sebastian Dangerfield · 20-08-2014 07:22PM

Headshot wrote: »

If I remember right, they have cost the club a billion since they took over

But at what actual cost to the club? Its not like the club had a billion quid stuck in a bank account somewhere that the Glazers have come in and pilfered. Debt has been repaid through earnings that they, and the commercial team they put together and whose salaries they pay, have generated.

Money has been made available to every manager who has asked for it - despite the horror stories that fans and journos like to spin at times like this. They still own the ground, and have not renamed it. The club is doing commercially better than it ever did, despite a downturn in performance on the pitch. Record breaking contracts have been given to players when they have needed to be. Training facilities have never been better.

Did they take a chance based on their view of the commercial ability of the Manchester United brand? Of course. Was the club in jeopardy if they were wrong? Most likely. Have they proven to be right? Without a doubt - the club will soon be debt free with all of its major assets still in place.

The concepts of debt in a business or of owners taking profits are not new, but when it comes to football people seem to think a different set of rules apply. They don't.

kryogen · 20-08-2014 07:22PM

The Pontiac wrote: »

I wouldn't say he was ever the best in the world.

He's no Maldini or Nesta. SKY Sports might have liked us to believe he was though.

And isn't it great that you are entitled to your opinion as much as the next guy?

Adamocovic · 20-08-2014 07:23PM

Rojo quoted saying:
"I have worked really hard for this opportunity. Now I am at the biggest club in the world and I want to win trophies."

That's what I want to hear!

redbaron_99 · 20-08-2014 07:23PM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

We're back baby.

We are sooooo back!

homerjay2005 · 20-08-2014 07:23PM

The Pontiac wrote: »

Are you serious?

named in the world team of the year in 2008 despite England not even making the Euros that year.

Rio was a smashing player, its amazing how quickly people forget players like Rio once they leave. in my opinion, he is the best defender of our generation for the club and that surely makes him up there with one of our best ever defenders.

he was an incredible player for us.

RobbingBandit · 20-08-2014 07:25PM

Will Rojo make his debut on Sunday?

pablo128 · 20-08-2014 07:25PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I think it's a billion US dollars.

This guy gives a vague explanation of fractional reserve banking and puts it across as justifying their gamble and heaping debt onto the club.
And also attributing our success in recent years to the glazers.

The mind boggles at times

I could get a mortgage for a house, using a deposit I borrowed from a credit union, and rent the house out for 15 years until it's fully paid for. The house will be worth more then too. I could do it without spending a penny of my own money.
The Glazers it appears, have done exactly that with Man Utd.

homerjay2005 · 20-08-2014 07:26PM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Will Rojo make his debut on Sunday?

yep, he surely will as long as he is in good shape. he will be left back i would imagine.

The Moldy Gowl · 20-08-2014 07:26PM

Pro. F wrote: »

There might not have been as much of a risk as people initially feared, but there was still a significant risk.

Even with the best manager in the history of the game (an old man, who could have retired or fallen ill at any moment) churning out an incredible return on investment for money paid into the football side of the operation - football success being the only asset on which all of the marketability rests - they still had to resort to selling 10% of the club to cover their finances.

I suppose hindsight is great in these cases.

Anything could have happened, you're right.

But I would like to trust the guys who did the deal. I don't have a reason not to.

That was their job

Rayne Wooney · 20-08-2014 07:27PM

When you factor in Nani's wages, about 4.8 million a year, it looks like the total outlay for Rojo will be over £20 million, I didn't think he was great at the World Cup but that's only a few games and I'll give him a fair go, if LVG has bought him he must have something about him

I think Vidal wants to move and United want to buy him, I wouldn't pay much attention to what Juve say as I think they are waiting for Vidal to say he wants to leave so they don't look like the bad guys in this. Although if he is back fit now and we don't move for him this week I don't think it will happen

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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