Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 01:55PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yes, you should ignore the meaningless pre-season.

What I saw on Saturday was the same type of rubbish display that we saw all last season, which was no surprise to me whatsoever considering it was coming from basically the same group of players. I said it weeks ago, people had their heads in the sand expecting it to be any different.

Expecting Louis van Gaal to be able to get better performances and results than David Moyes did, even with the same group of players, can not be described as having your head in the sand.

Backstreet Moyes · 20-08-2014 01:59PM

Rafael, Shaw and a competent midfielder beside Herrera would make a massive difference from what was seen Saturday. Lingard and Young offered nothing going forward and Fletcher is just not good enough.

homerjay2005 · 20-08-2014 01:59PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Expecting Louis van Gaal to be able to get better performances and results than David Moyes did, even with the same group of players, can not be described as having your head in the sand.

10 players out, 3 players in is not really the same group of players though is it?

magnumbud · 20-08-2014 02:01PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Rafael, Shaw and a competent midfielder beside Herrera would make a massive difference from what was seen Saturday. Lingard and Young offered nothing going forward and Fletcher is just not good enough.

bit harsh on the lad was only on the pitch for about 20 minutes. i agree with the point initial point

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 02:02PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

10 players out, 3 players in is not really the same group of players though is it?

True. We have a better group of players this season than last season.

Adamocovic · 20-08-2014 02:03PM

So I can't really find much sources for this question, but what is the situation with our injuries?

Are the likes of Evans, Rafael, RvP, and Welbeck fit for selection this weekend?

Mitch Connor · 20-08-2014 02:05PM

Pro. F wrote: »

True. We have a better group of players this season than last season.

Do we?

Is Smalling, Evans, Jones, Rojo a better defensive set at CB than Rio, Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones?

Is Shaw a better LB set than Evra and Buttner?

Mitch Connor · 20-08-2014 02:06PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

So I can't really find much sources for this question, but what is the situation with our injuries?

Are the likes of Evans, Rafael, RvP, and Welbeck fit for selection this weekend?

RVP, maybe - he is training a few weeks now, but would imagine he will be on the bench before starting. Similar with Rafael - he started training again Thrusday gone, he'll be well back in fitness. Might be pressed in to it given lack of options though. No idea on Evans or Welbeck.

IrishIrish · 20-08-2014 02:07PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

10 players out, 3 players in is not really the same group of players though is it?

Serious Question here.... Are you seriously including Bebe, Jack Barmby and Macheda in your 10 players out to try and generate some sort of negative drama or who are you including in your 10 players out...

magnumbud · 20-08-2014 02:11PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

So I can't really find much sources for this question, but what is the situation with our injuries?

Are the likes of Evans, Rafael, RvP, and Welbeck fit for selection this weekend?

not sure about the other lads but would imagine Rafael will start out of near necessity this weekend but would say RvP will be bench at most probably come on if needed perhaps play a full half of the carling cup then

Lucas Hood · 20-08-2014 02:12PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do we?

Is Smalling, Evans, Jones, Rojo a better defensive set at CB than Rio, Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones?

Is Shaw a better LB set than Evra and Buttner?

Why are you not including Blackett Keane & James here?

magnumbud · 20-08-2014 02:12PM

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Why are you not including Blackett Keane & James here?

makes it more dramatic

Your Airbag · 20-08-2014 02:14PM

Zico wrote: »

Does this mean you'll stop using the same stuff to prop up your opinions?

I usually look for good sources such as from the horse mouth stuff such Wegner confirming we bid for Vermalen and I usually had the caveat of "if this story is true" on many posts unlike others who like to take ITK stuff as fact to bash the way the club is run.

Recently I was critical of Ogden over some of his guess work this summer and he is regarded as a reliable around here.

But don't let any of that bother you. Just continue to take any badly put together article that has a negative spin towards UTD as fact. You have a cheif exec and the way the club is run to bash after all even though you don't have a clue whats going on.

RGDATA! · 20-08-2014 02:16PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Muller, Reus and Vermaelen were targets, but Fabregas was not and neither was Kroos, both of whom LVG didn't want.

How do we know for a fact that LVG didn't want Kroos/Fabregas? Just curious as I've seen a few people say it with certainty.

Backstreet Moyes · 20-08-2014 02:16PM

magnumbud wrote: »

bit harsh on the lad was only on the pitch for about 20 minutes. i agree with the point initial point

Ye i meant Rafael will offer far more at wing back than Lingard.

Zico · 20-08-2014 02:18PM

Sunday can't come soon enough.

Your Airbag · 20-08-2014 02:21PM

RGDATA! wrote: »

How do we know for a fact that LVG didn't want Kroos/Fabregas? Just curious as I've seen a few people say it with certainty.

We bid for Fabregas last summer when Barca and Cesc said he wasn't going anywhere. Barca said he is up for sale this summer and we did nothing when everyone expected us to bid. Media reports aside if you can't figure out LVG didn't want him from that I don't know what to tell you.

Moyes watched Kross and "apparently" meet with his agent. I think they were photgraphed together. If reports are to be belived Moyes had done some work on a deal and the same links started early this summer. Then our interest dropped when LVG took over.

This is simple to grasp stuff

Mitch Connor · 20-08-2014 02:22PM

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Why are you not including Blackett Keane & James here?

Fine, include them. For me the point still stands. I think people are placing way too much faith in Blacket and James - and would say the people who are doing so don't watch the under 21 or U18 sides, in which neither especially impressed. IMO they are in the squad because of the complete lack of options alternate to them.

They will eventually be moved on like many other youth players who play a few games, imo. Keane is the best of the 3, a good backup option, not first choice material by a long way imo though.

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 02:23PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do we?

Is Smalling, Evans, Jones, Rojo a better defensive set at CB than Rio, Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones?

Is Shaw a better LB set than Evra and Buttner?

Since I haven't seen him at CB yet, I can't say how good Rojo is there. For the sake of argument, I'm going to make the assumption that he is an acceptable back-up there.

Vidic is a loss. Rio is not. Smalling, Jones, Evans, Blackett (who has been very impressive) and Rojo, as a set, is only slightly weaker than Smalling, Jones, Evans, Rio and Vidic.

Shaw is infinitely superior to Evra so that is a huge improvement. Buttner as cover is a loss, but James has impressed me so far and Rojo is decent cover there too. So we have significantly improved that position.

Hererra in is a big improvement to our central midfield.

Nani out is a loss, but he was injured a lot last season and Januzaj is a year older now, so it's not a huge loss.

So, two areas of the team have improved - LB and CM - and two have gotten weaker - CB and WM. I would say the amount of change in quality is greater in the areas improving than in the areas weakening.

If Rojo turns out to be a disaster then I suppose you could say the overall quality of the team has weakened.

homerjay2005 · 20-08-2014 02:24PM

IrishIrish wrote: »

Serious Question here.... Are you seriously including Bebe, Jack Barmby and Macheda in your 10 players out to try and generate some sort of negative drama or who are you including in your 10 players out...

Rio
Vidic
Evra
Giggs
Buttner
Fabio
Bebe
Nani
Henriquez
Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 02:25PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fine, include them. For me the point still stands. I think people are placing way too much faith in Blacket and James - and would say the people who are doing so don't watch the under 21 or U18 sides, in which neither especially impressed. IMO they are in the squad because of the complete lack of options alternate to them.

They will eventually be moved on like many other youth players who play a few games, imo. Keane is the best of the 3, a good backup option, not first choice material by a long way imo though.

None of them need to be first choice material. We already have Jones, Smalling, Evans and possibly Rojo for that.

RayCun · 20-08-2014 02:26PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Moyes watched Kross and "apparently" meet with his agent. I think they were photgraphed together. If reports are to be belived Moyes had done some work on a deal and the same links started early this summer. Then our interest dropped when LVG took over.

This is simple to grasp stuff

think you left out a couple of "I understands", and a "I heard from a mate that"

Pro. F · 20-08-2014 02:27PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Rio

Vidic

Evra

Giggs

Buttner

Fabio

Bebe

Nani

Henriquez

Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

Mention them all you want, it just makes your argument look weak.

Your Airbag · 20-08-2014 02:28PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Rio

Vidic

Evra

Giggs

Buttner

Fabio

Bebe

Nani

Henriquez

Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

lol at Henriquez, Macheda and Bebe.

Rio and Giggs were rightly let go. Fabio made 3 apperances for us last season and never has held down a regualr first team palce.

IrishIrish · 20-08-2014 02:28PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Rio

Vidic

Evra

Giggs

Buttner

Fabio

Bebe

Nani

Henriquez

Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

Why would I be upset? I get great entertainment laughing at your posts. Keep up the good work 'Big bad homerjay'

P.S. Thanks for answering.

MagicIRL · 20-08-2014 02:29PM

Do we know the details on the Nani loan? Is there an option to buy? I want him back next season after a full season tearing Portugal apart.

bullvine · 20-08-2014 02:29PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Rio

Vidic

Evra

Giggs

Buttner

Fabio

Bebe

Nani

Henriquez

Macheda

does that answer you serious question?

Bebe and Macheda will be down on any list you will see (sky sports, transferleague etc etc) but hey, big bad homerjay is not allowed to mention this because he will upset poor little Irishirish on boards.

You really are clutching, its not exactly Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis.

Mitch Connor · 20-08-2014 02:30PM

Pro. F wrote: »

None of them need to be first choice material. We already have Jones, Smalling, Evans and possibly Rojo for that.

We are playing 3 at the back, and of the 4 defenders you mention 3 are very injury prone (one is injured right now) - with the 4th (Rojo) being a bit of a mad b'stard with regards to his booking and red card record. Based on the current players we have, we have to expect that Blacket and Keane will be needed for a decent number of games, and thus need to be premiership/first team quality - imo anyway.

homerjay2005 · 20-08-2014 02:30PM

Pro. F wrote: »

Mention them all you want, it just makes your argument look weak.

what argument? i replied to you just to say its not the same group of players and you agreed with it, we moved on...

RGDATA! · 20-08-2014 02:30PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

We bid for Fabregas last summer when Barca and Cesc said he wasn't going anywhere. Barca said he is up for sale this summer and we did nothing when everyone expected us to bid. Media reports aside if you can't figure out LVG didn't want him from that I don't know what to tell you.

Moyes watched Kross and "apparently" meet with his agent. I think they were photgraphed together. If reports are to be belived Moyes had done some work on a deal and the same links started early this summer. Then our interest dropped when LVG took over.

This is simple to grasp stuff

No need to patronise me but thanks for your answer.
In short I wouldn't have thought it implausible that we were interested in both Kroos/Fabregas but both chose to go elsewhere? I'm not saying I know this for a fact, but it seems more likely to me than the idea we weren't interested in either.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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