Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Pro. F · 19-08-2014 12:06PM

beno619 wrote: »

Ahh well the oil clubs shouldnt be used as a yard stick.

Madrid and Barca produce a lot of top level players not everyone makes it there but Mata for example was at Madrid.

Real brought Mata in when he was 15 so that doesn't count. Januzaj, Pogba, Rossi and Evans wouldn't count for United either.

Without having detailed information about the numbers and success of graduates over a decent period of time for all teams, then it's impossible to say who has the best academy.

twam2008 · 19-08-2014 12:06PM

Coat22 wrote: »

Was this just published today? Surprised it hasn't provoked a lot more debate - his point about united missing out on a player because of a difference of 2M on valuation is exactly what I thought was going on there now with Woodward negoatiating transfers - he's doing the business with his accountant hat on rather than a CEO who sometimes needs to realise you sometimes have to bite the bullet.

It was put up last night, and the debate currently on is part of that post

LostBoy101 · 19-08-2014 12:07PM

La Masia foundation was set up by LVG and Pep just followed it through. I'm looking forward to see what LVG can make our academy in 3 years.

kippy · 19-08-2014 12:09PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what has 10 years got to do with our current squad?

in that early 10 year period -

we signed and sold the best player in the world for a profit of £72million.

we signed some of what went on to become the best players in the world in their positions, for pittance (Vidic and Evra)

we already had Rooney and Rio when the glazers came in - two players who were about to enter the peak of their careers.

we got a world class keeper for £2million.

We got Tevez on "loan" for 2 years.

we still had 4 or 5 of our youth set up, who formed the basis of the team that won the CL in 2008 (scholes, giggs, brown, O Shea etc etc)

the basis of a world class team was there before the Glazers took over, we added Carrick, hargreaves, nani, anderson and Tevez to it and won 3 titles in a row and became European champions.

using figures of 10 years is nothing but bittness towards the Glazers. our team was set up to dominate the English game for 5 years and thats what it did. other teams had to spend big to catch up and they did.

since 2011 we had the chance to keep ahead of them with proper investment and we have, despite spending the highest money in the clubs history, failed in our recruiting policy.

quoting figures from 2004 is not relevent to our current plight. likewise using figures from 2009-2011 for city is not relevant as up to then (2011), despite the millions they spenT, we were still ahead of them (11 points 2 years ago wasnt it).

the problem is that in the last 4 years, weve spend but f*cked it up while our rivals have outlayed less money, but moved 2 or 3 levels ahead of us.

In the past 5 years (since 09) United have been outspent by City, Chelsea, and most likely Liverpool and Spurs at this point.
The players United bought cheaply in that time (generally young ones) haven't worked out as well as was hoped and some key areas were neglected. This blames, Fergie, Gill, Woodward, Moyes and the Glaziers, not matter how you want to spell it out.

And mentioning spending the highest amount in the clubs history is just the times we are in.
Do you expect the club to spend less next year than it did in 1999 or any other year for example.
Other clubs are spending way more than they ever did also. Thats what's happened with the money in the game and the competition for talent.

The money is apparantly there at United but as I've already posted that's not much use to the fans - all the fans mind, not just the match going ones (the reason the money is there in the first place is because of the fans - all of them and mostly the ones who never make it to a match or do so on a rare occasion).
There has been a very obvious transfer policy the past number of years and it hasnt worked out for the club.

Heres a list of ins and outs (the ins are the important ones reall in this context) and associated costings:
http://transferleague.co.uk/

Danye · 19-08-2014 12:12PM

Enough of all this taking about figures. The main thing is have we signed anbody yet or are we even near to signing somebody?

Rubber_Soul · 19-08-2014 12:13PM

LostBoy101 wrote: »

La Masia foundation was set up by LVG and Pep just followed it through. I'm looking forward to see what LVG can make our academy in 3 years.

La Masia was established by Cruyff.

TheTownie · 19-08-2014 12:13PM

https://twitter.com/Sport_Witness/status/501703024432402433

twam2008 · 19-08-2014 12:18PM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11030599/Marcos-Rojo-13-things-you-might-not-know-about-Manchester-United-transfer-target.html

RobbingBandit · 19-08-2014 12:20PM

Seen on Eurosport because of the third party ownership of Rojo it will take a few more days for the lawyers to sort out the paper work. Will be weird having a guy named Faustino playing for the Red Devils.

RichFTW · 19-08-2014 12:20PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

wow....really sums up our transfer policy and certainly makes those blaming the Glazers look wide of the mark.

our wage bill is crazy also for the quality of players we have.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what has 10 years got to do with our current squad?

in that early 10 year period -

we signed and sold the best player in the world for a profit of £72million.

we signed some of what went on to become the best players in the world in their positions, for pittance (Vidic and Evra)

we already had Rooney and Rio when the glazers came in - two players who were about to enter the peak of their careers.

we got a world class keeper for £2million.

We got Tevez on "loan" for 2 years.

we still had 4 or 5 of our youth set up, who formed the basis of the team that won the CL in 2008 (scholes, giggs, brown, O Shea etc etc)

the basis of a world class team was there before the Glazers took over, we added Carrick, hargreaves, nani, anderson and Tevez to it and won 3 titles in a row and became European champions.

using figures of 10 years is nothing but bittness towards the Glazers. our team was set up to dominate the English game for 5 years and thats what it did. other teams had to spend big to catch up and they did.

since 2011 we had the chance to keep ahead of them with proper investment and we have, despite spending the highest money in the clubs history, failed in our recruiting policy.

quoting figures from 2004 is not relevent to our current plight. likewise using figures from 2009-2011 for city is not relevant as up to then (2011), despite the millions they spenT, we were still ahead of them (11 points 2 years ago wasnt it).

the problem is that in the last 4 years, weve spend but f*cked it up while our rivals have outlayed less money, but moved 2 or 3 levels ahead of us.

You didn't mention anything about the current squad when you used the screenshot showing net spend to show the Glazers have spent as much as the big clubs. Which they haven't even if you look at the 5 year summary. Transfers in shows the investment made, not net spend.

I used 10 years as the Glazers took over the club 10 years ago. Which I did as you brought up the Glazers in the first place.

You're right that we haven't bought as well as the other clubs but they have spent more than us. They do however take more punts and so look like they have a better track record when in fact they just buy a number of players in the hope that one or two will be a success.

Mikeyt086 · 19-08-2014 12:22PM

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Fair point.

Anderson's before he came to United had him doing flips flops and scoring crackers. Should have had him eating burgers with brazzers

Anderson before he came to United did do flip-laps and scored crackers playing as an attacking midfielder, it's not like the video lied.

redbaron_99 · 19-08-2014 12:26PM

If Nani goes to Sporting, and the Rojo deal falls through, there will be a meltdown of epic proportions.

Pro. F · 19-08-2014 12:26PM

RayCun wrote: »

He also produced figures for the last 5 years, where both City and Chelsea have spent more than 200 million more than United on players

And a yearly breakdown for all the teams too. The argument is now proven for everybody except Homer - Chelsea and City have spent considerably more money in building their squads than United have. Edit: And this is what should be expected, since they aren't being run as a business.

Of course, that doesn't mean that we have spent our money as well as we could have. It just shows that the wastage hasn't been as bad as a few people were portraying it.

kryogen · 19-08-2014 12:28PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Anderson before he came to United did do flip-laps and scored crackers playing as an attacking midfielder, it's not like the video lied.

Anderson before his awful injury (which I believe he has never fully gotten over) was a cracking attacking midfielder, the highest rated in world football. His manager not using him properly, an inability to stay fit and other factors have left him where he is today which is a shame. It is time to move on though naturally

19-08-2014 12:29PM

It's laughable to blame the owners tbh. As someone above said it's spoiled fans.

If they aren't providing the money by all means they should be targeted for protest but this isn't the case.

The manager can't really be blamed as hes in the job a few weeks.

Woodward is the guy that is failing at his job. He needs to be shown the door by Utd.

I'd imagine him and van gaal will be at war should the latter fail to secure any remaining targets this window.

RobbingBandit · 19-08-2014 12:29PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

If Nani goes to Sporting, and the Rojo deal falls through, there will be a meltdown of epic proportions.

Nani is only going on a one year lone to sweeten the deal.

redbaron_99 · 19-08-2014 12:30PM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Nani is only going on a one year lone to sweeten the deal.

I know that.

RobbingBandit · 19-08-2014 12:32PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I know that.

If the deal falls through the lone will end I would imagine as it is based on the transfer taking place.

Backstreet Moyes · 19-08-2014 12:33PM

I would be very surprised if Nani agrees to go back to Portugal.

JaMarcusHustle · 19-08-2014 12:35PM

kryogen wrote: »

Anderson before his awful injury (which I believe he has never fully gotten over) was a cracking attacking midfielder, the highest rated in world football.

Ah here....

aperture_nuig · 19-08-2014 12:38PM

redbaron_99 wrote: »

If Nani goes to Sporting, and the Rojo deal falls through, there will be a meltdown of epic proportions.

TBH, all you would be able to do at that point is laugh.

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2014 12:38PM

RayCun wrote: »

He also produced figures for the last 5 years, where both City and Chelsea have spent more than 200 million more than United on players

and you (and a few others) are completely under estimating the impact of Net spending has on transfer budgets.

City were able to spend more, because the players they are buying are better, thus have a better resell value - they dont hang on to players who dont make the cut, they get rid of them.

Chelsea got £50m for David Luiz - that is incredible. meanwhile, we are giving massive contracts to over rated players (and players over 32, even 35 years old), meaning their contracts run down as nobody will buy them.

weve been trying to get of Anderson for 2+ years now, yet he has picked up £7million in wages in this time. we cant shift our players out as nobody wants them and nobody can afford their wages.

true we sold off Tosic, Foster, Richardson for good money, but for those 3, you have the likes of Bebe, Nani, Anderson, Fellaini will end us seeing a net loss of about £50m for what we paid for them, all in the prime now of their careers.

Justin10 · 19-08-2014 12:39PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Ah here....

Anderson, was highly rated at Porto, Best in the world, for his age and potential would be better put.

He never got over his injury, had some really good games for us, highlight was the day at anfield against Gerrard.

kryogen · 19-08-2014 12:45PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

Ah here....

Check it out for yourself. He won the World Golden Boy, is that not enough evidence of how highly he was rated at the time? Three previous winners to him, Aguero, Fabregas and Rooney. Next ones Pato, Balotelli and Goetze

Don't let what has happened since colour your view of how highly he was rated

JaMarcusHustle · 19-08-2014 12:45PM

Rochey18 wrote: »

Anderson, was highly rated at Porto, Best in the world, for his age and potential would be better put.

He never got over his injury, had some really good games for us, highlight was the day at anfield against Gerrard.

kryogen wrote: »

Check it out for yourself. He won the World Golden Boy, is that not enough evidence of how highly he was rated at the time? Three previous winners to him, Aguero, Fabregas and Rooney. Next ones Pato, Balotelli and Goetze

Don't let what has happened since colour your view of how highly he was rated

To be fair, the age/potential caveat was not mentioned in the OP, hence my initial horror.

Sgt Pepper 64 · 19-08-2014 12:46PM

Rochey18 wrote: »

Anderson, was highly rated at Porto, Best in the world, for his age and potential would be better put.

He never got over his injury, had some really good games for us, highlight was the day at anfield against Gerrard.

I always thought he was played out of his best position by Fergie

FutureGuy · 19-08-2014 12:46PM

Anderson was unbelievalbly rated as an attacking midfielder. Then we attempted to make him a defensive midfielder.

19-08-2014 12:49PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

I would be very surprised if Nani agrees to go back to Portugal.

Van Gaal bringing him on the other day would suggest he sees him as somewhat useful too.

kryogen · 19-08-2014 12:50PM

JaMarcusHustle wrote: »

To be fair, the age/potential caveat was not mentioned in the OP, hence my initial horror.

I did say before his awful injury though, I thought that would be obvious to everyone what age he was

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2014 12:50PM

FutureGuy wrote: »

Anderson was unbelievalbly rated as an attacking midfielder. Then we attempted to make him a defensive midfielder.

despite the fact that Ferrguson said he never had a defensive midfielder in 25 years at the club?

Anderson got forward as much as any midfield player, he just wasnt very good at it.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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