Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Mitch Connor · 19-08-2014 10:57AM

RayCun wrote: »

Nobody even knows that it's Woodward who is the problem:rolleyes:

No, you just don't believe the people who say he is.

beno619 · 19-08-2014 11:00AM

Coat22 wrote: »

Fergie (and Gill) were like Bertie - bit of a mess - they left a pile of S**T for their successors to sort out.

I know where you're coming from, sign a top quality CM and a couple of top quality CBs and a lot could be put right but the fact is the rest of Europe knows they have United over a barrell and can hold them to ransom while the same players see more glamour in playing in Madrid / Barcelona / Munich / London.

This really is a load of rubbish.

Fergie left a squad that needed no more work than any of the other top 6 clubs.

If CM and LB was sorted last summer, we would have come into this season needing another CM,CB and Winger.

That obviously didnt happen and we have been set back about 2 years thanks to a combo of Moyes and Woodward.

The only thing Fergie can be blamed for since he stepped down was the appointment of Moyes.

bangkok · 19-08-2014 11:01AM

TheDoc wrote: »

The continued competitiveness of the team, and winning the title here and there, completely shrowded the defencies the club have had way before Moyes arrived.

The club has struggled in the transfer market buying from the top shelf, and the supposed brilliant youth acadamy is a total myth and fabrication.

united have one of the best youth acadamys in England how is a myth and fabrication?!

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2014 11:03AM

bangkok wrote: »

united have one of the best youth acadamys in England how is a myth and fabrication?!

what ever about United, England isnt actually at the top of world football when it comes to developing youngsters is it so putting United, at the top of that isnt saying much?

we are living of the class of 92 for the last 20 years.

beno619 · 19-08-2014 11:04AM

bangkok wrote: »

united have one of the best youth acadamys in England how is a myth and fabrication?!

Apparently its been in decline and our current squad would reflect that, only Evans and Welbeck are top level academy graduates, when you look at the players Southampton churn out on a yearly basis and the fact current and former United players are sending there children elsewhere there could be question marks.

Hopefully LVG can rectify this in his time at the club.

Your Airbag · 19-08-2014 11:06AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

I dont agree with much any more, but this sums up our transfer dealing for the past two years. Woodward is completely incomepetent when it come to buying players. He should have that responsibility removed asap

Very angry

He has bought players in every transfer window. Two in this window, maybe three and signed a very good player in Mata.

Saying he is completely incompetent is just plain wrong. None of us no for sure the list LVG has given him and how many he has failed to sign.

Irishcrx · 19-08-2014 11:08AM

In the cold light of day it's obvious and has been obvious for quite some time now that despite Utd's financial resources of income coming through the club , they are not willing to compete with Madrid , PSG , City or even Barca in signings.

Like it or not the glazers are extremely tight with money. I don't buy the BS of they can't pull off deals for players they simply won't pay the price tag, Mata was an exception to ease extreme pressure they were coming under. The glazers main goal is to use Utd to finance themselves and their debt.

What they don't seem to be realising is another few seasons of this and Utd won't be raking in any huge income because we will have become a mid table club with a serious lack of quality and success on the pitch.

I'm sick of hearing Woodward say we have money available and can compete in the transfer market, go ahead then...bloody compete...buy top players...put your money were your mouth is and re-assure Man Utd fans around the world that we actually can act like a top club still.

'Ronaldo money is just resting in our account'......sure it still is...

Coat22 · 19-08-2014 11:09AM

beno619 wrote: »

This really is a load of rubbish.

Fergie left a squad that needed no more work than any of the other top 6 clubs.

If CM and LB was sorted last summer, we would have come into this season needing another CM,CB and Winger.

That obviously didnt happen and we have been set back about 2 years thanks to a combo of Moyes and Woodward.

The only thing Fergie can be blamed for since he stepped down was the appointment of Moyes.

So apart from needing 5 players (According to you) the team Fergie left was grand – just that 50% needed changing (according to you).

So Fergie left a team needing 2 CMs, a LB, a winger and a CB?

Fergie didn’t realise he had no CM when one player had already come out of retirement and the other was the far side of 30 and looking ordinary in key games? He didn’t realise his 2 CBs were in their 30s and spending half the season injured? OR that his left back couldn’t defend and was also a 30 something? And the best of all – that the new winger he needed was to replace a lad who was about to turn 40?????

All of these positions should have been filled over the last 4 years or so. Vidic’s replacement should be the only part of the jigsaw left to sort out this year if Gill & Ferguson had been doing their job properly.

bangkok · 19-08-2014 11:09AM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what ever about United, England isnt actually at the top of world football when it comes to developing youngsters is it so putting United, at the top of that isnt saying much?

we are living of the class of 92 for the last 20 years.

and what about other players that were not in the class of 92 that went onto have great careers? do you just put them to the side and forget about them?

wes brown
john o shea
Darren fletcher
danny welbeck
johnny evans
tom cleverly
adnan januzaj
fraizer Campbell
Kieran Richardson
guissippi rossi
paul pogba
ryan shawcross

then other player in the academy now that could make the breakthrough..

james Wilson
Andreas Pereira
demetri mitchell
saidy janko

bangkok · 19-08-2014 11:10AM

beno619 wrote: »

Apparently its been in decline and our current squad would reflect that, only Evans and Welbeck are top level academy graduates, when you look at the players Southampton churn out on a yearly basis and the fact current and former United players are sending there children elsewhere there could be question marks.

Hopefully LVG can rectify this in his time at the club.

like who?

Tom.D.BJJ · 19-08-2014 11:11AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

He has bought players in every transfer window. Two in this window, maybe three and signed a very good player in Mata.

Saying he is completely incompetent is just plain wrong. None of us no for sure the list LVG has given him and how many he has failed to sign.

The evidence to the contrary would be overpaying for Fellanni, as well as his statement earlier this summer regarding making big signings. The paints a target on his back when he doesnt deliver, which simply put he hasnt. He needs to be left with only commercial duties and replaced on the football side of things.

Yer Aul One · 19-08-2014 11:12AM

bangkok wrote: »

and what about other players that were not in the class of 92 that went onto have great careers? do you just put them to the side and forget about them?

wes brown
john o shea
Darren fletcher
danny welbeck
johnny evans
tom cleverly
adnan januzaj
fraizer Campbell
Kieran Richardson
guissippi rossi
paul pogba
ryan shawcross

then other player in the academy now that could make the breakthrough..

james Wilson
Andreas Pereira
demetri mitchell
saidy janko

Lot of these guys only arrived at 17/18 years old

twam2008 · 19-08-2014 11:12AM

Irishcrx wrote: »

In the cold light of day it's obvious and has been obvious for quite some time now that despite Utd's financial resources of income coming through the club , they are not willing to compete with Madrid , PSG , City or even Barca in signings.

Like it or not the glazers are extremely tight with money. I don't buy the BS of they can't pull off deals for players they simply won't pay the price tag, Mata was an exception to ease extreme pressure they were coming under. The glazers main goal is to use Utd to finance themselves and their debt.

What they don't seem to be realising is another few seasons of this and Utd won't be raking in any huge income because we will have become a mid table club with a serious lack of quality and success on the pitch.

I'm sick of hearing Woodward say we have money available and can compete in the transfer market, go ahead then...bloody compete...buy top players...put your money were your mouth is and re-assure Man Utd fans around the world that we actually can act like a top club still.

'Ronaldo money is just resting in our account'......sure it still is...

As has been well documented, we can spend £120m every 12 months and that won't fix the problem because that is not what the problem is. The problem is with our transfer system, we need to be able to identify players sooner and should be working on transfers throughout the year, as was seen with Herrera and Shaw, it can be done but not enough is being done. And hopefully we will have consistancy with our new manager and longevity in which time the right players can be identified and secured.

Tom.D.BJJ · 19-08-2014 11:13AM

bangkok wrote: »

like who?

RVP
Phil Neville

RayCun · 19-08-2014 11:15AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Who were we spiting by buying Berbatov?

City

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No, you just don't believe the people who say he is.

I don't believe the people saying he is have any special insight into what is happening inside the club, so neither they nor I are in a position to say who the problem is.

bangkok · 19-08-2014 11:16AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

RVP
Phil Neville

they are only training with city, they are not signed up or anything

and just to add to the insignificance of that, Jose mourinho's son trains with fulham

Tom.D.BJJ · 19-08-2014 11:16AM

This article made me irrationally angry

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-united-blog/68/post/1991460/manchester-uniteds-transfer-window-travails-under-louis-van-gaal-and-ed-woodward

Cypher_sounds · 19-08-2014 11:16AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

RVP
Phil Neville

Any Coles son is with man city as far as I know too.

Your Airbag · 19-08-2014 11:16AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

RVP
Phil Neville

RVP is a current UTD player not former

Tom.D.BJJ · 19-08-2014 11:17AM

bangkok wrote: »

they are only training with city, they are not signed up or anything

Yes, and?

Tom.D.BJJ · 19-08-2014 11:18AM

Your Airbag wrote: »

RVP is a current UTD player not former

He said "current and former" :rolleyes:

bangkok · 19-08-2014 11:18AM

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Yes, and?

I don't see what point you are trying to make?

homerjay2005 · 19-08-2014 11:19AM

bangkok wrote: »

and what about other players that were not in the class of 92 that went onto have great careers? do you just put them to the side and forget about them?

not one world class player out of the list you gave, compared to a heap of them 20 years ago. every other club in England could bring out a list of their academy players longer than than for players.

Pogba and Rossi were signed into the club and left quickly - our input on them while of course could have been huge, may have been replicated and/or better at any other club.

we tend to buy players rather than develop them.

you are forgetting the size of our club to be honest.

Cantstandsya · 19-08-2014 11:19AM

bangkok wrote: »

and what about other players that were not in the class of 92 that went onto have great careers? do you just put them to the side and forget about them?

wes brown
john o shea
Darren fletcher
danny welbeck
johnny evans
tom cleverly
adnan januzaj
fraizer Campbell
Kieran Richardson
guissippi rossi
paul pogba
ryan shawcross

then other player in the academy now that could make the breakthrough..

james Wilson
Andreas Pereira
demetri mitchell
saidy janko

The only top players in that list are Januzaj and Pogba who are not products of the youth academy at all and were just poached from other clubs when they reached 16. To use their names as evidence of the quality of the Man U youth academy is nonsense.

MagicIRL · 19-08-2014 11:20AM

Did someone say... Berbasex?

TheDoc · 19-08-2014 11:20AM

bangkok wrote: »

united have one of the best youth acadamys in England how is a myth and fabrication?!

Wellbeck, Cleverly, Janners.

They are the only names that spring to mind of players that have broken into the first team in the last few seasons. Cleverly is largely regarded as simply not good enough, Wellbeck will constantly have the jury out untill he starts scoring 15+ a season.

Janners is being touted as potentially world class, but there is a long way to go there before he is even a first team regular, nevermind world class.

Few players cropped up pre-season, Blackett seems decent, but time will tell if they become regulars in our squad. Pogba obviously is well documented and probably the only success story of recent note...and we sent him off.

The purpose of a youth academy is to supplement the first team, with players who are educated and prepared for the style of football that they will operate in the first team, and be equipped with the technical skills and knowledge to operate at that level.

What we have...is a youth academy that farms players out on loan, hoping that during first team football in lower divisions, a player will just "click" and be able to slot into what has been largely a title challenging team. This just hasn't come to pass for so long.

Instead our youth acadamy players are plying their trade in lower leagues, or lower table teams in the PL, along with a few who have moved abroad.

I'd argue it is a myth, as the purpose and function of a clubs academy should be supplementing the first team with a steady string of replacements as the years go on.

The only success our academy has provided is supplimenting lower league teams with players they "assume" are good, because they were at our academy.

beno619 · 19-08-2014 11:21AM

Coat22 wrote: »

So apart from needing 5 players (According to you) the team Fergie left was grand – just that 50% needed changing (according to you).

So Fergie left a team needing 2 CMs, a LB, a winger and a CB?

Expecting 5 transfers of high quality players is a lot and if you look at City and Chelsea they had gaps last year that have been addressed this summer, its taken Mourinho and Pellegrini 2 summers

Fergie didn’t realise he had no CM when one player had already come out of retirement and the other was the far side of 30 and looking ordinary in key games? He didn’t realise his 2 CBs were in their 30s and spending half the season injured? OR that his left back couldn’t defend and was also a 30 something? And the best of all – that the new winger he needed was to replace a lad who was about to turn 40?????

All of these positions should have been filled over the last 4 years or so. Vidic’s replacement should be the only part of the jigsaw left to sort out this year if Gill & Ferguson had been doing their job properly.

Yes Fergie should have left the perfect squad the new manager would never need to have made any additions, can you give me an example of when this has ever happened in top level football ? :rolleyes:

Last seasons priorities were a LB and CM this didnt get addressed so now we require even more because players have left, lose of form ect.

Tom.D.BJJ · 19-08-2014 11:22AM

bangkok wrote: »

united have one of the best youth acadamys in England how is a myth and fabrication?!

beno619 wrote: »

Apparently its been in decline and our current squad would reflect that, only Evans and Welbeck are top level academy graduates, when you look at the players Southampton churn out on a yearly basis and the fact current and former United players are sending there children elsewhere there could be question marks.

Hopefully LVG can rectify this in his time at the club.

bangkok wrote: »

like who?

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

RVP
Phil Neville

bangkok wrote: »

they are only training with city, they are not signed up or anything

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

Yes, and?

bangkok wrote: »

I don't see what point you are trying to make?

What dont you underdtand??

UnitedIrishman · 19-08-2014 11:25AM

beno619 wrote: »

I think Blind would be a decent CM option and leaves the door open for Strootman or Vidal.

The utility tag thats been attached to him is unfair and unflattering as from what ive heard he's a fine midfield player.

He has one big problem that is a pretty big issue for our team already - pace. Not that he's overly slow, but when you look at our problems at the minute - our biggest issue is we have certain defenders, midfielders, and attackers taking 3-4 touches at a time and getting into trouble. By this stage the opposition has everyone back behind the ball and we're now facing a load of players in front of us. Which is odd considering how technically good some of our players are like Mata and Herrera. Look at the difference between the speed of attack between us and Chelsea last night for instance (and fair enough personnel comes into that too).

He played well at LWB for the Netherlands at the WC but we're far better off find a player for a certain position rather, as many have mentioned on here, than a player that just covers a lot of positions. He is a good battling midfielder but I think we need something better at CM.

TheDoc · 19-08-2014 11:25AM

bangkok wrote: »

and what about other players that were not in the class of 92 that went onto have great careers? do you just put them to the side and forget about them?

wes brown (Injuries argueably scuppered his potential, brilliant on his day)
john o shea(Suffered from utility tag, never established with us as he should have)
Darren fletcher (Was a VERY slow starter, became integral to us, then condition struck. For large parts was not good enough)
danny welbeck( Jury still out)
johnny evans( Has come on nicely in the last few seasons, so injury prone)
tom cleverly( Jury has all but made its ruling)
adnan januzaj( To early to tell)
fraizer Campbell( Mid table striker, was never good enough for United)
Kieran Richardson( Mid table player, never good enough)
guissippi rossi ( Scuppered by injury, never materialised into anything of note)
paul pogba( Documented)
ryan shawcross ( Mid table CB, never United quality)

then other player in the academy now that could make the breakthrough..

james Wilson
Andreas Pereira
demetri mitchell
saidy janko

That's my point, sure they have gone onto "play football", but surely the judging point for youth players, is if they make it into our first team and maintain the quality we expect, since they came from our youth academy.

I've put my feelings in brackets above, but it's hardly a list to somehow debunk the suggestion our youth academy has not been as stellar as some would make out.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Comments