Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Montroseee · 18-08-2014 10:28PM

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Players dictating when they go, and subsequently going for peanuts, has been a problem for a while now. I dont have a problem with Rio, Vida etc, in the same way I dont think we should have cashed in on Giggs in his mid 30s. But mediocre, underperforming players seem to be allowed to stay on the wage bill in the squad until they decide they want to play more. The days of the hughes/ince/kanchelskis clear out are a distant memory, and we will be stuck with a squad of Cleverleys, Andersons and Valencias for at least another year because of it. Three weeks since the manager said the squad was "broken", not one player has come in or gone out.

I honestly believe having some of the squad populated with absolute dross /deadwood is poison and has a negative impact on the rest of the squad. Arsenal had the same problem a few years ago with the likes of Santos/Denilson/Park/Benny etc. and Liverpool more recently. The need for a cull is huge IMO, hopefully these players can be moved on within the next few transfer windows.

Nailz · 18-08-2014 10:28PM

Take out Fletcher, bring in Fellaini, then you have our best first 11 as it stands. Darren was one of our worst players on Saturday (along with Mata), I don't think he'll be physically capable of playing that much football this season, or at least not consistently starting.

Fellaini, behind Herrera, is our second best midfielder.

How Soon Is Now · 18-08-2014 10:29PM

bangkok wrote: »

the amount of crap going on about woodward and yet not 1 person knows whats going on behind the scenes. he already signed shaw and herrera, both long term deals. moyes gets sacked and a new manager comes in, needs a few weeks to see what needs improving, like he said he would. key players missing for first game.

fully fit squad and our team would be lining out as follows...

de gea

rafael
jones
evans
shaw

carrick

Herrera
fletcher

Mata

rooney
rvp

subs.
lindegarrd
smalling
welbeck
hernandez
valencia
kagawa
nani

in the stand...
young
cleverly
fellaini
blackett
zaha
etc
etc

that is an excellent team/squad and with the addition of one or 2 more big names, di maria, strootman maybe and another quality defender its back to the good times

If and thats a big if they all perform. Big chunk of those players aint been worth a ****e for a good while now.

Cantstandsya · 18-08-2014 10:29PM

Poor old Ed, as long as I can remember United have been rubbish in the transfer window, be it on purpose or through incompetence I don't know. I'm sure everyone remembers signing Berbatov at the last minute, not to mention all the crap players bought after being linked with the likes of Ronaldinho and Ballack. I have no idea why anyone who claims to be a United fan is surprised that things are now exactly as they have always been in terms of transfers.

Regarding Woodward being rubbish at transfers compared to Gill, I remember a very similar situation when Peter Kenyon left for Chelsea and David Gill first took over. Chelsea then signed a few players and the talk was that Kenyon and stolen United's targets. This article considers how Arjen Robben ultimately signed for Chelsea. In particular, I think this passage is relevant:

"February 10th 2004: Robben wants United move but talks about transfer fee stall.

“It would be fantastic if I could play for Manchester, but at the moment I just have to wait,” said Robben. “For now I have to focus on the football.”

“Of course Arjen will be disappointed,” said the PSV president. “He had already visited Manchester United and I had agreed a deal in principle with Peter Kenyon for him to join them in the summer.”"

If the current paper talk is true then it's not hard to replace the name Robben with the likes of Kroos, Fabregas, Vidal, Alcantara. From my reading of things it seems that it is United's policy to hammer out everything about a deal, including player negotiations, before trying to arrange a price and then baulking when that player's club ask for the going rate for a top player. The only exception to this, ridiculously, seems to be English prospects for whom United seem endlessly willing to pay over the odds for despite generally getting a raw deal.

Also, I'd be very reluctant to pay all that much attention to football journalists knowledge of why United aren't signing players. They have shown over the window that they haven't got any reliable sources and are generally just making stuff up to fill papers, the likes of the Express and Jamie Jackson of the Guardian were particularly shameless when it came to trotting out any old nonsense as bait for United fans' collective clicks. I find no reason to give their "why United aren't signing X" articles any more respect than their endless run of baseless "why United are signing X" articles.

bucketybuck · 18-08-2014 10:32PM

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't think that's true. I had some strong enough criticism of how the team were doing in pre-season but I don't remember anybody calling me names for expressing it.

Oh, its definitely true.

homerjay2005 · 18-08-2014 10:33PM

Cantstandsya wrote: »

Poor old Ed, as long as I can remember United have been rubbish in the transfer window, be it on purpose or through incompetence I don't know. I'm sure everyone remembers signing Berbatov at the last minute, not to mention all the crap players bought after being linked with the likes of Ronaldinho and Ballack. I have no idea why anyone who claims to be a United fan is surprised that things are now exactly as they have always been in terms of transfers.

im sorry, but this is nonsense. the berbatov deal was signed when we were European champions with arguably one of the best team and squad weve ever had in our history. we didnt need huge investment, just one player.

that team went on to retain the PL, won the CC, beaten on pens in the fa cup, won the CS and won the world club cup.

the other two deals you mentioned that didnt happen were followed by the above team being assembled, which led to perhaps the greatest successful period in our clubs history - 5 league titles, 3 domestic cups and 3 champions league finals, as well as world champions.

you cannot compare the farce of last summer, to what happened in the past - lets not forget weve spend £123m in the last year and probably only one player from our team on saturday would get into the starting 11 of our rivals.

18-08-2014 10:35PM

bangkok wrote: »

?! we were missing 6 first team starters v swansea.... and they are no "mickey outfit" side as you put it. absolute zero respect for the 2nd best passing side in england last season

And besides Rafael and Shaw there are no full backs in the squad with premier league experience, unless you count Blackett who hasn't played there in the league. How many of those 6 players would have stopped Lingard and Januzaj playing RB and Young playing LB with the respective starters out?

Larry Wildman · 18-08-2014 10:36PM

bangkok wrote: »

?! we were missing 6 first team starters v swansea.... and they are no "mickey outfit" side as you put it. absolute zero respect for the 2nd best passing side in england last season

Do you think it's acceptable for a club like Swansea (12th) to come to Old Trafford and win?

Pro. F · 18-08-2014 10:37PM

I think it's a reasonable possibility that Woodward and our negotiation tactics are the problem. If that is the case then soon enough van Gaal will run amok in public and we'll know.

I also think it's a reasonable possibility that we've had two slow summer windows because of having two new managers.

No matter how many articles Delaney and the like write, I'll wait for more evidence before I'll come to a conclusion. And I won't be worrying myself about their gossip.

Either ongoing transfer issues that can't be explained by managerial disruption or van Gaal flipping his lid publicly - that is what's needed for us to really know.

18-08-2014 10:37PM

People keep talking about spending 120m in the last year to make it sound bigger than it is. I'd regard a Summer window as the start of a new year with regards transfer activity.

RobbingBandit · 18-08-2014 10:39PM

Wouldn't be adversed to see Sir Alex take a hand in the transfers, he fecked up more than a few times over the years but he always had an eye for talent at knock down price and was never afraid to get dirty to get the player to sign, pipping City for Giggs by going to his house was always a favourite of mine.

bangkok · 18-08-2014 10:39PM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

It really isn't an excellent squad.

one of the best goalkeepers in the world, johnny evans solid centre half, new signing luke shaw one of the best young defenders in england, herrera class midfielder, carrick quality passer and then a trio of mata, rooney and rvp...

Cantstandsya · 18-08-2014 10:40PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

im sorry, but this is nonsense. the berbatov deal was signed when we were European champions with arguably one of the best team and squad weve ever had in our history. we didnt need huge investment, just one player.

that team went on to retain the PL, won the CC, beaten on pens in the fa cup, won the CS and won the world club cup.

the other two deals you mentioned that didnt happen were followed by the above team being assembled, which led to perhaps the greatest successful period in our clubs history - 5 league titles, 3 domestic cups and 3 champions league finals, as well as world champions.

you cannot compare the farce of last summer, to what happened in the past - lets not forget weve spend £123m in the last year and probably only one player from our team on saturday would get into the starting 11 of our rivals.

The same type of people have been whinging about not buying top, marquee name players in exactly the same way that they are now for as long as I can remember. The fact that their whinging proved pointless as the team went on to win things despite not making the transfers these armchair transfer experts demanded doesn't diminish my point in the least.

It has been well known for years that the team needed strengthening in certain areas and I most certainly can compare then and now as the approach to the transfer market is exactly the same. It worked out ok then as the manager of the time was able to make the most out of what he had and the competition was different too.

I know United have a reputation for plastic fans and glory hunters but if all you want are big name signings and endless success then why not just go follow Real Madrid or dye your Man U jersey blue?

bangkok · 18-08-2014 10:42PM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Do you think it's acceptable for a club like Swansea (12th) to come to Old Trafford and win?

no but look at the bigger picture, van gaal needs time, when it was 1-1 and rooney hit the bar would have been a different story had the ball of going in. also you called swansea a mickey outfit team just goes to show how little respect you have for them

2moreMinutes · 18-08-2014 10:43PM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Wouldn't be adversed to see Sir Alex take a hand in the transfers, he fecked up more than a few times over the years but he always had an eye for talent at knock down price and was never afraid to get dirty to get the player to sign, pipping City for Giggs by going to his house was always a favourite of mine.

He did? Who?

twam2008 · 18-08-2014 10:43PM

Cantstandsya wrote: »

The same type of people have been whinging about not buying top, marquee name players in exactly the same way that they are now for as long as I can remember. The fact that their whinging proved pointless as the team went on to win things despite not making the transfers these armchair transfer experts demanded doesn't diminish my point in the least.

It has been well known for years that the team needed strengthening in certain areas and I most certainly can compare then and now as the approach to the transfer market is exactly the same. It worked out ok then as the manager of the time was able to make the most out of what he had and the competition was different too.

I know United have a reputation for plastic fans and glory hunters but if all you want are big name signings and endless success then why not just go follow Real Madrid or dye your Man U jersey blue?

Players not playing out of position for the first game of the season would have been nice.

Will I Amnt · 18-08-2014 10:43PM

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Wouldn't be adversed to see Sir Alex take a hand in the transfers, he fecked up more than a few times over the years but he always had an eye for talent at knock down price and was never afraid to get dirty to get the player to sign, pipping City for Giggs by going to his house was always a favourite of mine.

You could kiss goodbye to a new centre mid :pac:

bangkok · 18-08-2014 10:43PM

2moreMinutes wrote: »

He did? Who?

i hope you are not serious?!

Larry Wildman · 18-08-2014 10:44PM

bangkok wrote: »

one of the best goalkeepers in the world, johnny evans solid centre half, new signing luke shaw one of the best young defenders in england, herrera class midfielder, carrick quality passer and then a trio of mata, rooney and rvp...

That's 8 players. These days to compete at the business end you need more quality than that.

And of those guys that you've named, I'd narrow it down to De Gea, Rooney and RVP.

The rest are prospects and "TBCs".

Cantstandsya · 18-08-2014 10:45PM

twam2008 wrote: »

Players not playing out of position for the first game of the season would have been nice.

I am the first to admit that United need a lot of new players. The team right now isn't good enough.

My point is that it didn't happen in the last year and Ed Woodward didn't start United being crap at transfers, they have been rubbish at them for years.

bangkok · 18-08-2014 10:46PM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

That's 8 players. These days to compete at the business end you need more quality than that.

And of those guys that you've named, I'd narrow it down to De Gea, Rooney and RVP.

The rest are prospects and "TBCs".

evans is TBC?

Mata?!!??!?!!!!!

welbeck?

Hernandez?

Your Airbag · 18-08-2014 10:46PM

LVG is the main culprit for this window going the way it is. Not Woodward and its about time people admitted it.

He didn't take over properly until about 14 July, he managed his first match on the 24th.

Whilst he was at the world cup he semmingly okay'ed the deals for Herrara and Shaw who signed up on the 26th-27th of June. He was also fine with Evra and Rio leaving.

He called a halt to any progress we had made on Kross and showed zero interest in Cesc when Barca said he was up for sale.

He said he was happy with the squad a couple of times whilst in the US and implemented a 3-5-2 system for all our pre-season games when the team had only three CBs with first team experience.

On July 17th he said he would take three weeks to assess the squad. Around the 4th of August we bid for Vermalen, on the 7th of August exactly three weeks later Wegner confirmed UTD had bid.

In between those dates, on the 26th July LVG deems the squad broken and unbalanced.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that if your playing with three CBs and you only have three CBs that you need CBs straight away.

There seems to have been no effort that we know of in the meantime to sign a backup LB, another winger or midfeilder. Woodward aint going to bid on players behing LVGs back.

LVG has ignored quality and has been indescisve and slow to act in this window.

twam2008 · 18-08-2014 10:46PM

Cantstandsya wrote: »

I am the first to admit that United need a lot of new players. The team right now isn't good enough.

My point is that it didn't happen in the last year and Ed Woodward didn't start United being crap at transfers, they have been rubbish at them for years.

I agree, but think we need to change the transfer system. And Woodward should stick to commercial deals.

Adamocovic · 18-08-2014 10:47PM

I hope everyone has there gifs ready for the next signing...Ed better sign someone I've been sitting on a Simpsons gif for over a month!

Zico · 18-08-2014 10:47PM

Cantstandsya wrote: »

I know United have a reputation for plastic fans and glory hunters but if all you want are big name signings and endless success then why not just go follow Real Madrid or dye your Man U jersey blue?

"And Fergie said 'go watch Chelsea'
are you having a laugh I'll be watching FC"

You sound like one of those FC United types.:rolleyes:

Might suit you better.

twam2008 · 18-08-2014 10:51PM

LVG wasn't here last Summer Airbag, and we had a similar situation. I don't think it's a coincidence.

2moreMinutes · 18-08-2014 10:51PM

bangkok wrote: »

i hope you are not serious?!

I couldn't be more serious if I tried really really hard.

Edit: leaving aside any "knock down" prices from the guts of 20 years ago.

Cantstandsya · 18-08-2014 10:52PM

Zico wrote: »

"And Fergie said 'go watch Chelsea'
are you having a laugh I'll be watching FC"

You sound like one of those FC United types.:rolleyes:

Might suit you better.

Does rolling your eyes at me invalidate my point?

MisterAnarchy · 18-08-2014 10:52PM

bangkok wrote: »

fully fit squad and our team would be lining out as follows...

de gea

rafael
jones
evans
shaw

carrick

Herrera
fletcher

Mata

rooney
rvp

There is almost no pace in that team ,too many slow one paced players.

Larry Wildman · 18-08-2014 10:53PM

bangkok wrote: »

evans is TBC?

Mata?!!??!?!!!!!

welbeck?

Hernandez?

Yes.

Evans has done well partnered with either Vidic or Ferdinand in the past but has yet to deliver when playing as the senior man in a United defence.

Mata was a panic buy who wasn't needed. He has done very little since joining and was someone that the best manager in the league was happy to see the back of.

Wellbeck is not good enough to be Manchester United's front man in my view. A decent player...nothing more.

Hernandez was exposed again on Saturday. Great finisher but poor all round play means that he's not good enough.

De Gea would walk into our rivals' teams. RVP would too. Rooney probably would. Beyond that, nobody else.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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