Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

Pro. F · 18-08-2014 04:35PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

I read them and disagreed and came back with a list of how poor his quality was in this aspect on Saturday. So i don't need to go back as I already addressed it. Your seem to be avoiding and deflecting.

My guess is you don't want to talk quality because the video and player in question didn't show much of it on Saturday.

How many marks out of ten would you give his crossing display from the Swansea game?

And I responded to your list of what you saw as his poor quality. So you can stop pretending that I haven't directly addressed all your criticisms of Nani's performance on Saturday.

I would give his crossing 7/10 on Saturday. A decent rate of delivering quality from the opportunities he got, but no outstanding crosses. Of course the sample (45 minutes in the first game of the season when the whole team were struggling) is tiny and flawed, so it is stupid to be analysing it this much in the first place.

homerjay2005 · 18-08-2014 04:37PM

is there anybody reliable reporting these Van Gaal and Woodward problems or who started them?

have a feeling its coming from red issue but not sure.

Your Airbag · 18-08-2014 04:39PM

Pro. F wrote: »

And I responded to your list of what you saw as his poor quality. So you can stop pretending that I haven't directly addressed all your criticisms of Nani's performance on Saturday.

I would give his crossing 7/10 on Saturday. A decent rate of delivering quality from the opportunities he got, but no outstanding crosses. Of course the sample (45 minutes in the first game of the season when the whole team were struggling) is tiny and flawed, so it is stupid to be analysing it this much in the first place.

Jaysus. If thats really your score we can stop the discussion now.

Obviously your biased to the player on such high level, a proper discussion won't happen.

Pro. F · 18-08-2014 04:40PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Well we could certainly do with finding one or two quality ones. You think its an easy position to find quality in yet one of your earlier posts question what consistent top quality wingers there has been over the last number of years??
You want quality its out there but you pay for it

You've missed the point of that post. My point was that whoever you pay for, even the likes of Di Maria and Sanchez, there will always be questions over their form when you look long term.

The issue is that all wingers can look poor if their teams are under-performing. That doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of good wingers about, it just means that the position always comes in for undeserved criticism.

xtal191 · 18-08-2014 04:41PM

https://twitter.com/FutbolSergi/status/501407500982181888

irishfeen · 18-08-2014 04:41PM

MOD's do ye want to attach this to the first post again?

Montroseee · 18-08-2014 04:41PM

Pro. F wrote: »

United's strategy gives very little indication towards what quality is available.

Based on his consistent quality when he's had regular football I would rate Nani up there with Di Maria and Sanchez.

Based on the fact that he has been out injured and out of favour at his club for the last few years I would expect him to be sold cheap if he goes.

You can't pick the best 12 months of a player's career and use that to compare them players that have consistently performed at the highest level ie. Sanchez and Di Maria both since they were 21. Outside of that period where Nani admittedly looked world class, he has not been anywhere near these top players. Don't forget that players like Valencia, Krasic etc. have gone through stellar periods where they have looked like top class.

Fergie took a disliking too him and judging him on the field, you'd have to wonder what his work ethic/attitude in training is like.

Edit: Just saw you gave Nani's crossing a 7/10 on Saturday - as has been said, you obviously can't have a proper discussion on Nani.

Schwiiing · 18-08-2014 04:42PM

Are these twitter links not working for anyone else?

Pro. F · 18-08-2014 04:43PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Jaysus. If thats really your score we can stop the discussion now.

We could have stopped the discussion ages ago when it became obvious that we judge crosses in a fundamentally different way.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Obviously your biased to the player on such high level, a proper discussion won't happen.

Obviously you're biased against the player on such high level, a proper discussion won't happen.

Robson99 · 18-08-2014 04:43PM

Pro. F wrote: »

And I responded to your list of what you saw as his poor quality. So you can stop pretending that I haven't directly addressed all your criticisms of Nani's performance on Saturday.

I would give his crossing 7/10 on Saturday. A decent rate of delivering quality from the opportunities he got, but no outstanding crosses. Of course the sample (45 minutes in the first game of the season when the whole team were struggling) is tiny and flawed, so it is stupid to be analysing it this much in the first place.

Well analyze it further so. His performances for the last 2 or 3 seasons have probably been 4 or 5/10 at best. He has nothing to offer this utd team going forward imo. There comes a time when you just have to say enough is enough.

onemorechance · 18-08-2014 04:45PM

...
And while Ancelotti has hinted Di Maria could feature in the Spanish Super Cup first leg against Atletico Madrid on Tuesday, the Italian has admitted he is not certain the winger will remain at the Bernabeu beyond the end of the month.

"Di Maria is available [for the game against Atletico Madrid] like all the rest," Ancelotti said. "He could start the game and have his chance, but just like the other players. Tomorrow one team will play and it'll be a different one on Friday.

"I'm not discussing it [his future], because I'll lose my focus. I don't know what Di Maria has decided. He's ready to play and he can play for the team. Up to 31 August, that's our line. Whether he stays or goes everything will return to normal."
...

IBTimes.co.uk

That must indicate that at the very least, Di Maria is considering his future at Madrid.

A good summation of United's situation:

As Manchester United owners cash in, need to buy stars grows

...
Just two weeks remain for Van Gaal and executive vice chairman Ed Woodward to convince players to join a team in transition, out of the Champions League and facing a fight to return there.
...

ibnlive.in.com

TheTownie · 18-08-2014 04:45PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

Are these twitter links not working for anyone else?

Working for me on laptop with Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer and smartphone with Chrome.

beno619 · 18-08-2014 04:47PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Ah come on Ribery is a class act and has been for quiet a while

I've never seen him leave his mark on a big occasion there's no doubt he has ability but he hasn't shown it when it matters.
He did nothing it two Champions League finals by my recollection.

beno619 · 18-08-2014 04:50PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

You clearly said there are F*ck all question marks over him, thats not the case. Bizarre thing to say

1. This is the second point I'm making this simple point to you, hopefully it sticks this time. I agreed the video showed hard work and proved anyone saying Nani did NOTHING wrong as Pro F said "lol at at saying Nani did nothing"

2. Yes I ended with that, which doesn't contradict anything I said. He worked hard but lacked quality in the final 3rd. We need someone who can do both. What exactly can't you understand about that?

1 Fair enough.

2 You continue to ignore that Nani has demonstrated hard work and quality in the final 3rd on multiple occasions.

Pro. F · 18-08-2014 04:52PM

Montroseee wrote: »

You can't pick the best 12 months of a player's career and use that to compare them players that have consistently performed at the highest level ie. Sanchez and Di Maria both since they were 21. Outside of that period where Nani admittedly looked world class, he has not been anywhere near these top players. Don't forget that players like Valencia, Krasic etc. have gone through stellar periods where they have looked like top class.

I'm not picking the best 12 months of his career. I'm picking the only two and a half seasons where I've seen Nani playing regularly. It's that simple.

The rest of his time at United he has been forced out through injury and continually fúcked around by Fergie. It would be silly to judge him on those periods.

Montroseee wrote: »

Fergie took a disliking too him and judging him on the field, you'd have to wonder what his work ethic/attitude in training is like.

Fergie also took a disliking to Rooney, Stam and Beckham. It's quite possible that Nani is a dickhead off the pitch and not worth the bother of having in your squad, but I don't have much evidence either way.

If I was a manager looking to sign him I would want to get some inside information on what his off the field attitude is like, for sure. As a fan I have no way of doing that. I'd also only sign him for cheap or on a loan because of his poor injury record over the last few years.

None of these considerations change how highly I rate him as a player, only what I'd be willing to pay for him.

TheTownie · 18-08-2014 04:58PM

https://twitter.com/CLMerlo/status/501398852474114048

Translation: Marcos Rojo played at Manchester United: 20M euros plus the loan Nanni. Travels tomorrow to sign 4 years with one more option.

redbaron_99 · 18-08-2014 04:59PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

these Van Gaal and Woodward problems

What's all this??

Pro. F · 18-08-2014 05:00PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Well analyze it further so. His performances for the last 2 or 3 seasons have probably been 4 or 5/10 at best. He has nothing to offer this utd team going forward imo. There comes a time when you just have to say enough is enough.

Last season (13/14), no player should be judged on. The team were a mess under Moyes and Nani hardly featured anyway.

In the 12/13 season he hardly played at all.

In the 11/12 season he played a fair bit and he was class.

beno619 · 18-08-2014 05:03PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Even in the period when he was scoring and asssisting the reasoning is to have a player who maintains a better level of preformance week in week out where the team as a whole benefits from the upshots such as maintaining more possesion and UTD plays better because of it, not the individual. There are no stats for this possibility.

When Nani was on form he was sensational and I definitely wasn't tearing my hair out.

This is another example of history being rewritten to suit arguments.

Adamocovic · 18-08-2014 05:04PM

TheTownie wrote: »

https://twitter.com/CLMerlo/status/501398852474114048

Translation: Marcos Rojo played at Manchester United: 20M euros plus the loan Nanni. Travels tomorrow to sign 4 years with one more option.

Eh, who is he? Is he reliable? Just looks like another one of those reporters tweeting speculation.

I could be proven wrong, but I'm not going to read too much into these sort of tweets.

MagicIRL · 18-08-2014 05:05PM

Just watched the Manchester kid talking about Nani. Brilliant. Keep Nani just for more videos like that.

Pro. F · 18-08-2014 05:08PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Both of you have points here. Yes of course goals are important. Your one of Nanis biggest supporters on here and weve all seen the list of goals and assists many times.

Yet people still question Nani. Why?

Its not because they are idiots its because Nani can be mcuk for 89 mins then score a goal.

I've seen him, misplace simple passes, shoot when he should pass, scuff crosses and be very poor on many occasions. Then he will grab a goal or assist and in lots of matches the goal or assist doesn't come.

Its great when he gets a goal or assits but it doesn't all of a sudden turn 80+ mins of being piss poor into a good display and make a very good consistant player.

That list of goals and assits would have many matches on it where you'd be tearing your hair out watching him being rubbish until he finally does something.

I've never agreed with this argument that Nani is muck for 89 minutes and then scores/assists a goal. Like Beno says, I certainly haven't been pulling my hair out watching him any time he has been on form. Those times being every time he has been played regularly.

As I've always said, the goal/assist records are handy for dispelling some of the myths about Nani - that he is average, that he does nothing, that he only scores when we're winning, that he doesn't produce consistently, etc - but not all of them. I was using it in this case to counter the argument that Nani has only been an average footballer. An average footballer obviously won't score and assist at that rate.

TheTownie · 18-08-2014 05:11PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Eh, who is he? Is he reliable? Just looks like another one of those reporters tweeting speculation.

I could be proven wrong, but I'm not going to read too much into these sort of tweets.

News producer for Tyc Sports in Argentina. Don't know how reliable. Not gonna translate all his tweets to find out. Could well be nonsense but hey at least its not 'Agent Football'

Backstreet Moyes · 18-08-2014 05:21PM

Why exactly should assists and goals not be taken into account when discussing a winger. A winger's job is to score and create goals. Should we not take into account a striker's goals when discussing strikers.

Whatsisname · 18-08-2014 05:21PM

MEN saying Madrid are bracing themselves for a bid from United. Little do they know Woody has lost the fax machine and is in talks with PC World to sign a new one but isn't willing to meet their asking price.

DM_7 · 18-08-2014 05:26PM

These embedded tweets are annoying already.

KombuchaMshroom · 18-08-2014 05:29PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

Just watched the Manchester kid talking about Nani. Brilliant. Keep Nani just for more videos like that.

This video of that kid pretty much epitomises how people's opinions of certain players is based on what they hear and read on social media types, and has absolutely nothing to do with actually watching players play and judging their input.

On saturday Nani and Januzaj were the only 2 players that caused Swansea any sort of problem all game. However, one father in the stadium clearly just doesn't like Nani so without any fair assessment of Nani's play makes a comment to his son, his son gets picked up repeating the comment and because its such a great soundbite it gets picked up and goes semi viral, and from there thousands conclude Nani was sh!t at the weekend without actually watching him play.

Its amazing how many people behave like sheep and just adopt an easy to go with opinion because its funnier or popular, and not based on any sort of critical thinking on their behalf.
(Not necessarily directed at you magic, you just mentioned the video so made sense to quote you)

Lucas Hood · 18-08-2014 05:33PM

The video is from months back.

homerjay2005 · 18-08-2014 05:35PM

DM-ICE wrote: »

These embedded tweets are annoying already.

why dont people just copy and paste the tweet as is normal?

talkSPORT ‏@talkSPORT 4m
Exclusive - Rene Meulensteen hit backs back at David Moyes over claims about his departure from Man United http://tlks.pt/bWQv3d #mufc

Backstreet Moyes · 18-08-2014 05:38PM

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

This video of that kid pretty much epitomises how people's opinions of certain players is based on what they hear and read on social media types, and has absolutely nothing to do with actually watching players play and judging their input.

On saturday Nani and Januzaj were the only 2 players that caused Swansea any sort of problem all game. However, one father in the stadium clearly just doesn't like Nani so without any fair assessment of Nani's play makes a comment to his son, his son gets picked up repeating the comment and because its such a great soundbite it gets picked up and goes semi viral, and from there thousands conclude Nani was sh!t at the weekend without actually watching him play.

Its amazing how many people behave like sheep and just adopt an easy to go with opinion because its funnier or popular, and not based on any sort of critical thinking on their behalf.
(Not necessarily directed at you magic, you just mentioned the video so made sense to quote you)

It really is easy to not judge a player fairly on a game because of your opinion on them in general. I was critical of Cleverley in a pre season game and vented about it here. Somebody pointed out he actually done a few good things. I watched the highlights and i had to agree i was wrong he had a decent game.

People when they don't like a player seem to pick up on the bad things and blank out the good things. Nani was one of the better players Saturday while not exceptional done better than most. Yet people come on here and vent about Nani despite several players being much worse.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/08

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