Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

Pro. F wrote: »

I think you are over estimating your knowledge of transfer negotiations. For the vast majority of them you and I wouldn't have a notion how the negotiations went and what the final fee was.

What I do know is that knowledgeable journalists like Sid Lowe have said that all players in Spain have buy-out clauses and that they are normally set at exorbitant prices. I also know that highly sought after players are sold by Spanish clubs every season and many of them go for fees that are far less than exorbitant.

All players in Spain have buy-out clauses, as technically, they are assets owned by the Spanish FA. The buyout clause thing is nothing to do with clubs, it's a Spanish Fa requirement, which came as part of Spanish legislation as the transfer of Spanish players oversees is seen as an export of an asset.

The Spanish Government receive a portion of every sale of a player oversee's as a % tax.

I'm not implying that I know anything secretive about transfers, but I've read enough down through the years, even from the likes of Sid Lowe, explaining how that buyout system works.

Whilst in the vast majority of cases the buyout clause its never reached because as you say a) it's exageratted and b) The club are actually willing to sell.

However in the case where a club don't want to sell, but are coming under increased pressure from the players agent and the player himself, they can sit back and point to the buyout clause. While it might be OTT, it's actually legally binding and a club unless willing to defer that option, are under no obligation to sell a player, while under contract, for less then that clause.

But as you say, in the VAST majority of cases the sale does go through, but remembering that most Spanish clubs require sales to generate revenue to reinvest in the squad, so will be open to selling.

But when you have BIG sought after players like Herrera, Martinez, Costa etc., it does appear that clubs can try the buyers patience in quoting the buyout clause.

I don't think we are far of the mark here, I agree with you that in most cases it's not a factor, because the selling club need the capital to reinvest. But in the majority of cases, they are not selling their prized asset and might be simply selling players surplus to requirements in order to fund other investments.

I would for example imagine Fabregas and soon Shanchez, will go beneath their buyouts, but only because Barca are looking to re-invest and clear out their wagebill.

I'd imagine at this point, after Costa leaving, any advances for lets say Koke, will result in the buyout needing to be met, as the club save face in assuring their fans they arnt shifting their top assets.

Pro. F wrote: »

Fair enough if people have not seen much of him until this tournament, I'm in the same boat myself. My point is not that people should have already known about him, but that he is only being considered by most people because they trust LVG's judgement and LVG selected him. I think the majority of people discussing football, judge a player's ability purely on who they play for rather than forming opinions themselves.

I think most/few people considered him (I'm assuming Blind) as he was linked with United by media for obvious reasons and maybe some were impressed with his performance in friendlies and few world cup games.

Yeah I'm talking about myself

The first match I watched him was in the friendly before world cup where he played as CM/DM and I liked what I saw. Then he followed it up with a good performance against Spain as LWB. So I for one felt he would be a good addition to the squad as he plays in multiple position without much drop in his performance levels.

Sample size was too small but I'm not a scout to watch Dutch league and watch all players to form a solid opinion. :cool:

Say it with me Doc; de Vrij. de V-r-i-j.

Cookiemunster wrote: »

He was a 21 yr old with 1 yr left on his contract with a total of 23 senior appearences in 4 yrs at the club. That was about what he was worth at the time. And all he did was go home to Barca.

Was unaware he only had a year left on his contract. Shouldn't have let it get down to a year really

I know most people are discrediting any links to any of the dutch players. And putting it down to the fact that VG manages them now, but honestly De Vrij is a huge possibility.

We've been talking about him for a while ever since Feyenoord announced that he will more than likely be leaving this year and the fact that he has a low enough price tag at around £10 million. I'd like him to come, he still only 22 and he's comfortable playing right back too.

Only downside is he might be a bit young and it would be better to have an experienced centre back like Hummels who can probably step in as a leader figure in the centre. Also really want to see Jones given a full season in centre back.

Can't wait until Holland wrap up their World Cup so VG can meet up with the team.

TheDoc wrote: »

All players in Spain have buy-out clauses, as technically, they are assets owned by the Spanish FA. The buyout clause thing is nothing to do with clubs, it's a Spanish Fa requirement, which came as part of Spanish legislation as the transfer of Spanish players oversees is seen as an export of an asset.

The Spanish Government receive a portion of every sale of a player oversee's as a % tax.

I'm not implying that I know anything secretive about transfers, but I've read enough down through the years, even from the likes of Sid Lowe, explaining how that buyout system works.

Whilst in the vast majority of cases the buyout clause its never reached because as you say a) it's exageratted and b) The club are actually willing to sell.

However in the case where a club don't want to sell, but are coming under increased pressure from the players agent and the player himself, they can sit back and point to the buyout clause. While it might be OTT, it's actually legally binding and a club unless willing to defer that option, are under no obligation to sell a player, while under contract, for less then that clause.

But as you say, in the VAST majority of cases the sale does go through, but remembering that most Spanish clubs require sales to generate revenue to reinvest in the squad, so will be open to selling.

But when you have BIG sought after players like Herrera, Martinez, Costa etc., it does appear that clubs can try the buyers patience in quoting the buyout clause.

I don't think we are far of the mark here, I agree with you that in most cases it's not a factor, because the selling club need the capital to reinvest. But in the majority of cases, they are not selling their prized asset and might be simply selling players surplus to requirements in order to fund other investments.

I would for example imagine Fabregas and soon Shanchez, will go beneath their buyouts, but only because Barca are looking to re-invest and clear out their wagebill.

I'd imagine at this point, after Costa leaving, any advances for lets say Koke, will result in the buyout needing to be met, as the club save face in assuring their fans they arnt shifting their top assets.

You agree with me that many clubs need or want to sell and are willing to do so at more reasonable prices, so they don't hold out for their buyout clauses to be met. That's different from what you said first about it being difficult to buy a player for less than their buy-out clause.

In the case where clubs don't want or need to sell they can sit back and point to the buy-out clause if they have one. That is true, but if they don't have one they can still sit back and say "we don't want to sell". So the presence or absence of a clause makes no difference.

Pro. F wrote: »

You agree with me that many clubs need or want to sell and are willing to do so at more reasonable prices, so they don't hold out for their buyout clauses to be met. That's different from what you said first about it being difficult to buy a player for less than their buy-out clause.

In the case where clubs don't want or need to sell they can sit back and point to the buy-out clause if they have one. If they don't have one they can sit back and say "we don't want to sell". So the presence or absence of a clause makes no difference.

Yeah my original post was definitely ambigious as the conversation went on. It was assuming the topic was related to "highly sought after" targets.

But your 100% right in saying transfers happen all the time below the buyout, my point and opinion would be though that its more difficult when say someone like us, is chasing hot property, from a club not willing to sell easily.

Your last point is correct aswell, but I think the prescence of a buyout clause gives the club in question a face saving get out of jail card, like in the Herrera case, where the director pleaded victim to not wanting to sell and being forced to because of the clause.

Yet everyone and it's grandmother knew Herrera would eventually leave that club to move onto bigger and better things.

No fan wants to lose their star player(s) and no board/club want to look like a selling club, upsetting fans. For reference, look at Southampton, not a happy bunch over their, and the remaining players are looking for the door ASAP.

A hot tip for relegation imo.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I think most/few people considered him (I'm assuming Blind) as he was linked with United by media for obvious reasons and maybe some were impressed with his performance in friendlies and few world cup games.

Yeah I'm talking about myself

The first match I watched him was in the friendly before world cup where he played as CM/DM and I liked what I saw. Then he followed it up with a good performance against Spain as LWB. So I for one felt he would be a good addition to the squad as he plays in multiple position without much drop in his performance levels.

Sample size was too small but I'm not a scout to watch Dutch league and watch all players to form a solid opinion. :cool:

It's not the suggestion of Blind that I think there's anything weird about. Nor that people don't watch the Eredivisie. It's the absence of suggestions for players in general. It seems like most people only suggest players when they are already playing for a successful/big team.

That is not something I would criticise you of at all though. I remember you suggesting Schneiderlin, when otherwise he wouldn't have been getting a mention. (I have no idea how I remembered that. My brain surprises me sometimes.)

Sign devrij bulk him up and nickname him fridge

glued wrote: »

It'll be very interesting to see what happens to him this season. He's definitely got the talent but he has zero confidence. He'll seriously need to improve his control for van Gaal

He would be ideal to play as a squad player if we were in the Europa League but we aren't so I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a Stoke or West Brom shirt soon.