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Femme Fatale or Date Rape Victim?

  • #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 46,989 mod Black Swan


    Days ago Nia Sanchez won Miss USA 2014. A 4th degree black belt and taekwondo instructor, she is a strong advocate of women learning self-defense and martial arts to protect themselves, especially women attending college and university campuses in America where date rape is a serious problem.

    This launched a controversy with some women's rights activists, where they accused Nia Sanchez of blaming the victim. For example, why should women have to learn self-defense, or martial arts (that would take years to master) when they were not at fault? And if women did not master SD or MA, to what extent were they to blame for allowing themselves to be victimized? Furthermore, was Nia Sanchez misdirecting people away from solving the real problem: eliminating date rape by addressing its primary and contributing factors, rather than an SD or MA band aid approach?

    Is date rape a serious problem? The US Centers for Disease control conducted a study of 5,000 college students sampled from 100 colleges. 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" This study suggested that it was a serious problem, given that one in five college women claimed to have been raped at some point in her lifetime (Douglas, K. A. et al. "Results From the 1995 National College Health Risk Behavior Survey." Journal of American College Health 46, 1997, pp 55-66).

    Although date rape is a complex problem, and women learning SD or MA is not the silver bullet that will solve this problem, I do agree with Nia Sanchez that it's part of the solution. If and when I have a daughter someday, she will learn MA, just like being required to attend primary and secondary education. After LC she can decide if she wants to continue MA, but until then, tough love!

    Pro and con opinions? Suggestions? Solutions?


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Comments



  • The way the internet echo chamber has been going the last few years it couldn't be long before any advice to women about avoiding potential issues would constitute victim blaming.

    If I have children of any kind I'll do what I can to teach them how to handle/avoid conflict of any kind.




  • Black Swan wrote: »
    Days ago Nia Sanchez won Miss USA 2014. A 4th degree black belt and taekwondo instructor, she is a strong advocate of women learning self-defense and martial arts to protect themselves, especially women attending college and university campuses in America where date rape is a serious problem.

    This launched a controversy with some women's rights activists, where they accused Nia Sanchez of blaming the victim. For example, why should women have to learn self-defense, or martial arts (that would take years to master) when they were not at fault? And if women did not master SD or MA, to what extent were they to blame for allowing themselves to be victimized? Furthermore, was Nia Sanchez misdirecting people away from solving the real problem: eliminating date rape by addressing its primary and contributing factors, rather than an SD or MA band aid approach?

    Is date rape a serious problem? The US Centers for Disease control conducted a study of 5,000 college students sampled from 100 colleges. 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" This study suggested that it was a serious problem, given that one in five college women claimed to have been raped at some point in her lifetime (Douglas, K. A. et al. "Results From the 1995 National College Health Risk Behavior Survey." Journal of American College Health 46, 1997, pp 55-66).

    Although date rape is a complex problem, and women learning SD or MA is not the silver bullet that will solve this problem, I do agree with Nia Sanchez that it's part of the solution. If and when I have a daughter someday, she will learn MA, just like being required to attend primary and secondary education. After LC she can decide if she wants to continue MA, but until then, tough love!

    Pro and con opinions? Suggestions? Solutions?

    It's always amusing to me when Feminists expose their own hypocrisy - criticising a woman for advocating martial arts classes seems to me to be tantamount to saying they'd rather see women raped in order to confirm their status as victims - a rather bizarre point of view!

    I used to teach Kenpo a few years ago along with my Sensei and the female students were amongst our best inasmuch as they paid attention closely to what we said and practised Kata in their own time.

    Interestingly the subject of rape never came up - the ones I spoke to just thought of it as a good form of exercise - at least that's what they told me!

    Part of our sessions though were aimed at diffusing potentially volatile situations and knowing when NOT to act violently - I suppose the hardcore Feminazis would just say this is a reworking of victim blaming as it implies the woman has some level of control over the situation.

    My own opinion is that martial arts enable women. I can't see any virtue towards an attitude that seems to say it's better for a woman to be raped than fight off an attacker just so we can feel certain rape is never the woman's fault.

    What's puzzling is that no one seems to object to advice never to leave valuables unattended or to use a complex password on their computer even though by the same token there's apparently some kind of moral abrogation in so doing.




  • Black Swan wrote: »

    This launched a controversy with some women's rights activists, where they accused Nia Sanchez of blaming the victim. For example, why should women have to learn self-defense, or martial arts (that would take years to master) when they were not at fault? And if women did not master SD or MA, to what extent were they to blame for allowing themselves to be victimized? Furthermore, was Nia Sanchez misdirecting people away from solving the real problem: eliminating date rape by addressing its primary and contributing factors, rather than an SD or MA band aid approach?

    "Blaming the victim" seems to be the buzz word of women's rights activists.

    To see it's nonsense, all you need to do is look at any criminal act where you have a victim and perpetrator, and a likelihood of this criminal act occurring. Take breaking & entering / burglary for example. By virtue of living in accommodation, you are at risk. As such, you take measures (door locks, alarms) to reduce the risk of the event occurring in the first place, and in the event it does happen - there are laws put in place that allow you to use appropriate (lethal in the US/Firearms) force to protect yourself, your family and your property.

    Surely the option to fit locks and alarms to your home, and these laws are also victim blaming by the same logic? Nobody seems to blame house owners when they get robbed despite taking such precautions, though. There seems to be a thin vague line in the sand that allows people to get away with calling it that. In reality, it's situation awareness and taking appropriate precautions towards a threat.

    Yes, in the perfect world it would not be necessary - and eliminating burglary by tacking it's causes would be an ideal solution. The reality of actually accomplishing this feat is colossal. This is the same with date rape, or in fact most crime. Like you said, it is a complex problem. By the time a fool-proof solution to the root cause is determined and eventually rolled out - how many more victims have fallen foul to it? You don't start tackling burglary by leaving your doors and windows open, so why would you take a similar approach with something like date rape?

    In this case, Nia Sanchez is doing nothing more than promoting MA as what she feels is an appropriate and worthwhile precaution for criminal acts pertaining to a person as the direct victim. There's nothing victim blaming about it, she (and others, study below) have obviously realized there is a real threat that is unlikely to be eradicated within our lifetime. Why would you not take every precaution to protect yourself from it?
    Is date rape a serious problem? The US Centers for Disease control conducted a study of 5,000 college students sampled from 100 colleges. 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" This study suggested that it was a serious problem, given that one in five college women claimed to have been raped at some point in her lifetime (Douglas, K. A. et al. "Results From the 1995 National College Health Risk Behavior Survey." Journal of American College Health 46, 1997, pp 55-66).

    It also seems 4% of men answered "yes" to the same question, bearing in mind it was done in 1995. It would certainly be interesting to see have those percentages changed in a follow up / repeat study, almost 20 years later.

    Although date rape is a complex problem, and women learning SD or MA is not the silver bullet that will solve this problem, I do agree with Nia Sanchez that it's part of the solution. If and when I have a daughter someday, she will learn MA, just like being required to attend primary and secondary education. After LC she can decide if she wants to continue MA, but until then, tough love!

    Pro and con opinions? Suggestions? Solutions?

    I'd be cautious about calling it part of the solution, I'm not sure if you could call it that. No more than any other precaution or preventative measure, you aren't tacking the cause of the problem, merely making it less likely to happen (to you). But, until there is any real solution to the problem, then it is a sensible precaution to have in the arsenal.




  • Black Swan wrote: »
    Pro and con opinions? Suggestions? Solutions?

    First, she is being accused of blaming the victim. On the basis of the article and the video clip, I didn't see her blame anybody for anything. I don't know why the talk-show host even read out those seemingly baseless comments from dissatisfied viewers. It seemed like sensationalist attention-grabbing more than anything else.

    Secondly, she is a Taekwondo instructor. Over on the martial arts forum, it is sometimes said that a martial art's effectiveness is based on the way upon which it is trained/instructed and on the way in which competition takes place. A lot of people talk about the benefits of Muay Thai, boxing, MMA (Mixed Martial Arts), Judo, and BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu). Boxing only involves punches, without any other means of attack, but it is still an extremely effective martial art, because of the way in which it is trained and the way in which boxers compete. Even a mediocre boxer can be a serious combatant. On the other hand, many of the 'pyjama' styles of Traditional Martial Arts are spoken about as maybe lacking a certain effectiveness. That's all I'll say on that for the moment, because people disagree to a certain extent on the issue.

    Thirdly, while self defence may be important, confidence, assertiveness and common sense are also important. Somebody can improve confidence and assertiveness from many sports. My opinion is that it would be more beneficial for a person to compete at a decent level in relation to a sport that they enjoy, rather than being forced to pursue some activity that they don't enjoy.




  • I agree wholeheartedly with Challengemaster bar
    its a sensible precaution to have in the arsenal
    Why is it considered a sensible precaution though for this particular crime? Why martial arts in specific relation to rape. Its rather simplifying the issue I feel.

    It would require a substantial amount of time and dedication to safeguard against one possible type of incident, where other simpler precautions may be just as effective.

    The obvious drawback would be that it might give the individual a false sense of security, where inevitably, even a blackbelt may not be able to prevent a planned or opportunist attack.

    Given the statistics based on students who were raped and knew their attacker, it does not seem to me that physicality or skill in defence arts is a predominant factor in prevention.

    I still wouldn't be opposed to Nia Sanchez's suggestion, as a suggestion only. I think the feminists stance is a sensationalist view and they risk drawing more attention to one particular personal choice and clouding the real issues.
    Black Swan wrote: »
    If and when I have a daughter someday, she will learn MA, just like being required to attend primary and secondary education.

    This, for instance I really don't understand. Would you explain your reasoning behind this to your daughter, or at what point?
    It seems excessive, you could encourage an interest at the right age, perhaps when she is old enough for the 'stranger danger' lesson, but to insist upon it as part of her vital education? Is it that important? It would seem a shame, to dedicate so much energy (considering the level of skill that would need to be attained to be of use) to this one aspect of prevention, particularly if the child became disinterested.

    And this is coming from the perspective of someone who has just discovered that I have unknowingly been in contact with a convicted rapist every day for the last 6 months.

    For the sake of discussion, it might be worth mentioning, he was convicted or rape and false imprisonment, because he tied up the girl's boyfriend to carry out the attack.

    Some help martial arts would have been to me, alone, and no-one to know where I was or to expect me home. I am a physically weak, twenty-something year old and I was armoured in nothing except common sense, which made me keep my distance from this 'slightly odd' individual. At no point did I ever consider that he was a convicted rapist though. It never crossed my mind.

    I'm not suggesting good judgement is enough either, merely that it is impossible to predict what situation you would need to protect yourself against. Nia Sanchez was forced to clarify that that is her personal choice when it comes down to the issue.

    I feel it would be much more prudent to discuss all the risks with this hypothetical daughter, rather then forcing her to learn martial arts and placing too much emphasis on one safeguard.


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  • To a great extent suggesting that by learning MA one is taking responsibility to avoid scenarios such as rape is a bit like suggesting that American schools would safer if every student had a gun.

    Thing is, when I'm walking down a street at night, I shouldn't need to know MA so that I can protect myself from some drunken skanger who's looking for a fight.

    Given this, if I walk down a dark alleyway in a dangerous part of the city, then I am asking for it, just as if I put my hand in a crocodile's mouth I should not be surprised I won't get it back.

    So the problem with this debate is really down to what is reasonable precaution or not. Unfortunately it's been politicized to such an extent by some feminist groups where any precaution is deemed to be 'victim blaming', no matter how reasonable, or bloody obvious, it may be.

    It seems to be an overall trend, not only with this issue but in general, whereby people are seeking rights while divesting themselves of personal responsibility.




  • It's nonsense of the highest order - there is very little to be said for any advice that starts with "You should be able to....." You have to take the world as it is, not as it should be. You should be able to leave your doors open and not have your stuff robbed - you should be, but you aren't. That's reality. Advising people to lock their doors is not victim blaming, it's practical advice.
    I have an 18 year old daughter, she should be able to wear revealing clothes and walk down dark alleyways without fear of some dirtbird grabbing hold of her, but that doesn't mean me telling her she can't is the same thing as me blaming her if something did happen. You have to protect yourself, that is reality. There are bad people who do bad things, even though they shouldn't, that is reality.
    Any life advice that ignores reality is just really shítty advice and best ignored.




  • In this case, Nia Sanchez is doing nothing more than promoting MA as what she feels is an appropriate and worthwhile precaution for criminal acts pertaining to a person as the direct victim... she (and others, study below) have obviously realized there is a real threat that is unlikely to be eradicated within our lifetime. Why would you not take every precaution to protect yourself from it?
    My opinion is that it would be more beneficial for a person to compete at a decent level in relation to a sport that they enjoy, rather than being forced to pursue some activity that they don't enjoy.
    Rips wrote: »
    Given the statistics based on students who were raped and knew their attacker, it does not seem to me that physicality or skill in defence arts is a predominant factor in prevention.
    So the problem with this debate is really down to what is reasonable precaution or not.

    Leanne R. Brecklin, LR and Ullman, SE (2005), "Self-Defense or Assertiveness Training and Women’s Responses to Sexual Attacks," Journal of Interpersonal Violence, Vol 20, No 6, pp 738-762, conducted a study of 1,623 women, concluding:

    "Self-defense classes aim to prevent violence against women by strengthening women’s capacity to defend themselves... Multivariate analyses showed that victims with preassault training were more likely to say that their resistance stopped the offender or made him less aggressive than victims without training. Women with training before their assaults were angrier and less scared during the incident than women without training, consistent with the teachings of self-defense training."




  • Black Swan wrote: »
    Leanne R. Brecklin, LR and Ullman, SE (2005), "Self-Defense or Assertiveness Training and Women’s Responses to Sexual Attacks," Journal of Interpersonal Violence, Vol 20, No 6, pp 738-762, conducted a study of 1,623 women, concluding:

    "Self-defense classes aim to prevent violence against women by strengthening women’s capacity to defend themselves... Multivariate analyses showed that victims with preassault training were more likely to say that their resistance stopped the offender or made him less aggressive than victims without training. Women with training before their assaults were angrier and less scared during the incident than women without training, consistent with the teachings of self-defense training."
    Bit of a non-sequitor to my point TBH.


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  • Black Swan wrote: »
    Days ago Nia Sanchez won Miss USA 2014. A 4th degree black belt and taekwondo instructor, she is a strong advocate of women learning self-defense and martial arts to protect themselves, especially women attending college and university campuses in America where date rape is a serious problem.

    This launched a controversy with some women's rights activists, where they accused Nia Sanchez of blaming the victim. For example, why should women have to learn self-defense, or martial arts (that would take years to master) when they were not at fault? And if women did not master SD or MA, to what extent were they to blame for allowing themselves to be victimized? Furthermore, was Nia Sanchez misdirecting people away from solving the real problem: eliminating date rape by addressing its primary and contributing factors, rather than an SD or MA band aid approach?

    Is date rape a serious problem? The US Centers for Disease control conducted a study of 5,000 college students sampled from 100 colleges. 20% of women answered "yes" to the question "In your lifetime have you been forced to submit to sexual intercourse against your will?" This study suggested that it was a serious problem, given that one in five college women claimed to have been raped at some point in her lifetime (Douglas, K. A. et al. "Results From the 1995 National College Health Risk Behavior Survey." Journal of American College Health 46, 1997, pp 55-66).

    Although date rape is a complex problem, and women learning SD or MA is not the silver bullet that will solve this problem, I do agree with Nia Sanchez that it's part of the solution. If and when I have a daughter someday, she will learn MA, just like being required to attend primary and secondary education. After LC she can decide if she wants to continue MA, but until then, tough love!

    Pro and con opinions? Suggestions? Solutions?

    I really have to ask, if date rape is such a serious problem on college campuses why does anyone send their daughters to college?




  • Why does everyone send their daughters to college... It's not the 1950s, nor is it Afghanistan.
    Perhaps if you really have to ask college might be a solution for you.




  • dharma200 wrote: »
    Why does everyone send their daughters to college... It's not the 1950s, nor is it Afghanistan.
    Perhaps if you really have to ask college might be a solution for you.

    I'm querying the reality of this date rape is such a big problem on campuses.

    Seriously, if we can blame parents for sending kids to boarding schools where they knew they were getting beaten, then why can't you query sending your kids to college if rape is such an epidemic?

    And it kind of is like the 1950s- this obsession with date rape is neo puritan and we may as well bring out the 1950s dating manuals.




  • I think you will find most colleges students are over 18




  • dharma200 wrote: »
    I think you will find most colleges students are over 18

    Your point?

    I think you will find most of their parents are paying for it.




  • First, she is being accused of blaming the victim. On the basis of the article and the video clip, I didn't see her blame anybody for anything. I don't know why the talk-show host even read out those seemingly baseless comments from dissatisfied viewers. It seemed like sensationalist attention-grabbing more than anything else.

    Secondly, she is a Taekwondo instructor. Over on the martial arts forum, it is sometimes said that a martial art's effectiveness is based on the way upon which it is trained/instructed and on the way in which competition takes place. A lot of people talk about the benefits of Muay Thai, boxing, MMA (Mixed Martial Arts), Judo, and BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu). Boxing only involves punches, without any other means of attack, but it is still an extremely effective martial art, because of the way in which it is trained and the way in which boxers compete. Even a mediocre boxer can be a serious combatant. On the other hand, many of the 'pyjama' styles of Traditional Martial Arts are spoken about as maybe lacking a certain effectiveness. That's all I'll say on that for the moment, because people disagree to a certain extent on the issue.

    Thirdly, while self defence may be important, confidence, assertiveness and common sense are also important. Somebody can improve confidence and assertiveness from many sports. My opinion is that it would be more beneficial for a person to compete at a decent level in relation to a sport that they enjoy, rather than being forced to pursue some activity that they don't enjoy.

    Some are martial arts others are sports. Judo is the sport version of jiu-jitsu. Judo was designed for school students and removed some of the more dangerous moves.
    Boxing is a sport and though a good boxer can land punches quickly most fights end on the ground pretty fast.

    The advantage of a MA is that you are prepared. One important thing is
    sparring and not being afraid to be hit, another is muscle memory where you just react when someone attacks you.

    I would encourage anyone to get their kids into it at an early age. With a good instructor. Everyone should know how to defend themselves.




  • Potatoeman wrote: »
    Some are martial arts others are sports. Judo is the sport version of jiu-jitsu. Judo was designed for school students and removed some of the more dangerous moves.
    Boxing is a sport and though a good boxer can land punches quickly most fights end on the ground pretty fast.

    The advantage of a MA is that you are prepared. One important thing is
    sparring and not being afraid to be hit, another is muscle memory where you just react when someone attacks you.

    I would encourage anyone to get their kids into it at an early age. With a good instructor. Everyone should know how to defend themselves.

    When I did Kenpo Karate the first hour was just spent doing CV exercises. I did the girly pushups and was chastised accordingly. :-D So, from a fitness perspective it's a good idea anyway.

    Of course practising in a dojo can't recreate the fear of an actual confrontation and at least between men fighting is usually both ugly and pathetic.

    Having said this, if a woman learns a martial art, at the very least she can make a choice about whether to try to defend herself if attacked. It's of course very unlikely to happen but then that's not much comfort when it happens to you.




  • Potatoeman wrote: »
    Some are martial arts others are sports. Judo is the sport version of jiu-jitsu. Judo was designed for school students and removed some of the more dangerous moves.
    Boxing is a sport and though a good boxer can land punches quickly most fights end on the ground pretty fast.

    The advantage of a MA is that you are prepared. One important thing is
    sparring and not being afraid to be hit, another is muscle memory where you just react when someone attacks you.

    I would encourage anyone to get their kids into it at an early age. With a good instructor. Everyone should know how to defend themselves.

    Boxing and Judo are both sports and martial arts at the same time.

    The perceived advantage of some non-competitive martial arts is that they retain dangerous and/or lethal moves. However, by their nature, these moves can't be trained and drilled effectively, or against full resistance. For this reason, Jigoro Kano (founder of Judo) removed such moves from Judo. He did not do so because such moves have no place in a sport. He removed them because he deemed that they were impractical and therefore less effective. He attempted to distil the best moves into an effective martial art, believing that effective training and drilling of more effective sweeps, throws, chokes, etc., would lead to a more effective fighting art.

    Many traditional martial arts are practised with choreographed moves, telegraphed towards an opponent who is responding at half contact.

    By contrast, Judo and boxing are trained and drilled for fighting against fully resisting opponents. All things being equal, a fighter who trains for competition should be better able to fight than one who practises choreographed moves only.

    It is true that many fights end up on the ground, and for this reason, it is important to have ground fighting skills. These are not taught in boxing, but boxing is still a highly effective fighting art, mainly because of the way in which it is trained. A good boxer can end a standing fight blindingly fast.

    It is my opinion that it is better to be effective at fighting with a more limited range of tools than to have wide range of less effective or even ineffective tools.

    However, if there is a solution to the issue of covering all your bases, it could be Mixed Martial Arts (MMA).




  • diveout wrote: »
    Your point?

    I think you will find most of their parents are paying for it.

    Its a massive over reaction to deny a woman an education on the off chance she might get raped. But I guess there are some people out there who would see that as a good thing.




  • Diveout was making a rhetorical statement, disputing that date rape has a large incidence.


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  • eviltwin wrote: »
    Its a massive over reaction to deny a woman an education on the off chance she might get raped. But I guess there are some people out there who would see that as a good thing.

    Exactly. It is an off chance I suspect.

    My point was how big a problem is this in reality? Or is it just stirred up feminist hysteria to villify male sexuality?




  • diveout wrote: »
    My point was how big a problem is this in reality? Or is it just stirred up feminist hysteria to villify male sexuality?

    Whoah. That's a bit severe. Just because it's uncommon doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I read about reports of it when I was in college.




  • Whoah. That's a bit severe. Just because it's uncommon doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I read about reports of it when I was in college.

    I am sure it does happen but campus politics have gone way OTT. If it were as much as a problem as is made out by feminists, then surely people would not send their daughters there. The fact that they do send their daughters there, suggests to me anyway, the risk is not that high.




  • Daterape is a broad term these days that covers a lot of things from a drunk woman consenting to sex that she would not have when sober to drugging with something like rohypnol.

    Neither of those situations will be prevented by martial arts.

    That said martial arts or self defence is in my opinion valuable for everyone to know.




  • It would certainly be interesting to see have those percentages changed in a follow up / repeat study, almost 20 years later.
    diveout wrote: »
    I'm querying the reality of this date rape is such a big problem on campuses.

    The US National Institute of Justice reports (26 October 2010): "The most recent and methodologically rigorous studies show that sexual assault still occurs at rates that approximate those first identified more than 20 years ago when Koss, Gidycz, and Wisiewski found that approximately 27.5% of college women reported experiences that met the legal criteria for rape."




  • Black Swan wrote: »
    The US National Institute of Justice reports (26 October 2010): "The most recent and methodologically rigorous studies show that sexual assault still occurs at rates that approximate those first identified more than 20 years ago when Koss, Gidycz, and Wisiewski found that approximately 27.5% of college women reported experiences that met the legal criteria for rape."

    Well 20 years ago was the 1990s when all this started. And campuses have their own kangaroo courts now with rules that also consider "verbal co-ercion" as part of their parameters.

    If you look at what that link considers sexual assault, a cat call or a whistle or a "hey sexy" would count as sexual violence.

    So if you count all those things, like hi want to get some coffee? as sexual violence, sure thing.




  • These sorts of women's rights activists seem more preoccupied with admonishing people for things rather than doing something productive.

    Regarding the importance self defence training, I think taking a martial arts class is of negligible advantage if you don't do some sort of proper sparring. You might feel more confident in your abilities if you are blue belt in Karate, but if all you have done is learned and practiced moves without any real force behind them or without being out of your comfort zone, then you will be in for a nasty surprise if you get into an altercation.

    In fairness though with the gaining popularity of MMA, people seem to be becoming more and more aware of this.




  • diveout wrote: »
    Well 20 years ago was the 1990s when all this started. And campuses have their own kangaroo courts now with rules that also consider "verbal co-ercion" as part of their parameters.

    If you look at what that link considers sexual assault, a cat call or a whistle or a "hey sexy" would count as sexual violence.

    So if you count all those things, like hi want to get some coffee? as sexual violence, sure thing.
    When the US National Institute of Justice report concluded "The most recent and methodologically rigorous studies show that sexual assault still occurs at rates that approximate those first identified more than 20 years ago when Koss, Gidycz, and Wisiewski found that approximately 27.5% of college women reported experiences that met the legal criteria for rape," it had been discussed under the section on Rape, not Sexual Harassment or Sexual Assault.

    The "legal criteria for rape" was not "a cat call" or a whistle or a "hey sexy," as defined by the National Institute of Justice.

    If self-defense training (or better yet years of martial arts training with sparring) as advocated by Nia Sanchez can eliminate one daughter (yes, just one) from suffering "rape as nonconsensual oral, anal, or vaginal penetration of the victim by body parts or objects using force" on a college campus today, then it should be considered as one of several preventative measures that may be taken.




  • Black Swan wrote: »
    When the US National Institute of Justice report concluded "The most recent and methodologically rigorous studies show that sexual assault still occurs at rates that approximate those first identified more than 20 years ago when Koss, Gidycz, and Wisiewski found that approximately 27.5% of college women reported experiences that met the legal criteria for rape," it had been discussed under the section on Rape, not Sexual Harassment or Sexual Assault.

    The "legal criteria for rape" was not "a cat call" or a whistle or a "hey sexy," as defined by the National Institute of Justice.

    If self-defense training (or better yet years of martial arts training with sparring) as advocated by Nia Sanchez can eliminate one daughter (yes, just one) from suffering "rape as nonconsensual oral, anal, or vaginal penetration of the victim by body parts or objects using force" on a college campus today, then it should be considered as one of several preventative measures that may be taken.

    "Most statutes currently define rape as nonconsensual oral, anal, or vaginal penetration of the victim by body parts or objects using force, threats of bodily harm, or by taking advantage of a victim who is incapacitated or otherwise incapable of giving consent. Incapacitation may include mental or cognitive disability, self-induced or forced intoxication, status as minor, or any other condition defined by law that voids an individual's ability to give consent."

    I would be very interested to see by the way any studies done on the effects of martial arts on the fight, flight or freeze response.

    So if the rapes are that high at 27%, why are women going to co-ed colleges?

    FBI have very different statistics:
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime/rapemain

    http://campusclarity.blogspot.ie/2013/10/how-do-we-know-1-in-4-women-will-be.html

    If I were actually to believe that statistic I'd b sending my daughter to Smith or Bryn Mawr.


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  • Daterape is a broad term these days that covers a lot of things from a drunk woman consenting to sex that she would not have when sober to drugging with something like rohypnol.

    Neither of those situations will be prevented by martial arts.

    That said martial arts or self defence is in my opinion valuable for everyone to know.

    That can be pretty broad though. You might sleep with someone when you are both drunk, that you would not normally sleep with. Arent both responsible in that case?


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