Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread Summer 2014 - Mod Warning post #6893

Knex* · 29-05-2014 12:51PM

Shaw is by no means more 'proven' than Moreno.

That's a little ridiculous, tbh.

Vicxas · 29-05-2014 12:57PM

Dont know a lot on Moreno....

So ill go with this: "I agree with whoever is winning the argument"

29-05-2014 12:57PM

Knex. wrote: »

Shaw is by no means more 'proven' than Moreno.

That's a little ridiculous, tbh.

In the EPL yes. Can't see how it's ridiculous.

Moreno is not, because he hasn't played in it. Simples really.

Devilman40k · 29-05-2014 01:01PM

New training kit on site now

BozcCXiIcAAPVH8.jpg:small

kevohmsford · 29-05-2014 01:01PM

I don't know loads about Moreno either.

Knex* · 29-05-2014 01:02PM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

In the EPL yes. Can't see how it's ridiculous.

Moreno is not, because he hasn't played in it. Simples really.

Flip side; Moreno is exponentially more experienced in Europe than Shaw having won a Europa League to Shaw's zero appearances. Therefore, as we are in Europe, we should only consider signing Moreno.

That, while perhaps being slightly more logical than your own 'proven' point, (which is a pet hate of mine of sorts) its still ridiculous.

By your logic, albeit an extreme example, signing Andy Carroll made more sense than signing Suarez that fable January a few seasons back. No prizes for guessing how that one turned out.

Agueroooo · 29-05-2014 01:04PM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

In the EPL yes.

Is the EPL experience worth an extra £30million ?

Shaw @£;30mil + £120k pw x 5yrs = £61.2 million

Moreno @£;16mil +£60kpw x 5yrs = £31.5million

livinginkorea · 29-05-2014 01:05PM

Devilman40k wrote: »

New training kit on site now

What't the difference between the first two? Apart from the line in the first one they look pretty much the same. Is the middle one a fleece top?

Dickerty · 29-05-2014 01:06PM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

In the EPL yes. Can't see how it's ridiculous.

Moreno is not, because he hasn't played in it. Simples really.

Which should that "EPL Proven" label counts for very little.

Aguero, Suarez, Toure, Silva, Mata, Kompany etc etc were not EPL proven, but were more successful than Carroll, Downing, Adebayor to City, Torres to Chelsea, Berbatov to United, who were all PL proven...

Quality is quality, however you look at it...

Vicxas · 29-05-2014 01:06PM

He too plays for a team with Warrior as their Kit maker..... O.o

Devilman40k · 29-05-2014 01:07PM

livinginkorea wrote: »

What't the difference between the first two? Apart from the line in the first one they look pretty much the same. Is the middle one a fleece top?

Middle is presentation jacket, one on left is walk out top

Rayne Wooney · 29-05-2014 01:08PM

Agueroooo wrote: »

Is the EPL experience worth an extra £30million ?

Shaw @£;30mil + £120k pw x 5yrs = £61.2 million

Moreno @£;16mil +£60kpw x 5yrs = £31.5million

Yes when Shaw is the better player both
attacking and defending, 3 years younger and proven consistently in a better league than La Liga

I also think you've changed your tune on this, I'll have a look through posts later but I think you were all for signing Shaw at one point for 30 million

*and Shaw is English

Dickerty · 29-05-2014 01:08PM

Devilman40k wrote: »

New training kit on site now

Those are some HD shots with no Photoshop involved - I can nearly count the freckles on their faces!

Agueroooo · 29-05-2014 01:10PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes when Shaw is the better player both
attacking and defending, 3 years younger and proven consistently in a better league than La Liga

I also think you've changed your tune on this, I'll have a look through posts later but I think you were all for signing Shaw at one point

Ohh I dont deny my love for Luke Shaw and whilst you're on your little recon have a look at the Moreno posts also :cool:

Dickerty · 29-05-2014 01:10PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes when Shaw is the better player both
attacking and defending, 3 years younger and proven consistently in a better league than La Liga

I also think you've changed your tune on this, I'll have a look through posts later but I think you were all for signing Shaw at one point

So you actually think he's twice the player? We wouldn't be better served investing the other 30M in a RB of Moreno's quality?

Knex* · 29-05-2014 01:11PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes when Shaw is the better player both
attacking and defending, 3 years younger and proven consistently in a better league than La Liga

I also think you've changed your tune on this, I'll have a look through posts later but I think you were all for signing Shaw at one point for 30 million

*and Shaw is English

There is a lot of opinion stated as fact in your post.

I'm not even sure if I disagree/agree with you or not, but its a bit mad (Ted), to be definitive and certain about it.

I'll grant you the three years thing, though :pac:

Turtyturd · 29-05-2014 01:11PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I also think you've changed your tune on this, I'll have a look through posts later but I think you were all for signing Shaw at one point for 30 million

*and Shaw is English

Chance for Aaron007 to bust out that Regular Show gif again.

29-05-2014 01:13PM

Knex. wrote: »

Flip side; Moreno is exponentially more experienced in Europe than Shaw having won a Europa League to Shaw's zero appearances. Therefore, as we are in Europe, we should only consider signing Moreno.

That, while perhaps being slightly more logical than your own 'proven' point, (which is a pet hate of mine of sorts) its still ridiculous.

Flip it again; Big jump from Europa league to Champions League

Moreno has only 45 appearances since 2012 and he's 3 years older. He only has 1 more cap for Spain since 2013. Shaw had his first cap only this year.

Azpilicueta will start ahead of Moreno for Spain in the WC.

Shaw has 60 appearances since 2012 and will get defiantly his chance at WC.

Nothing more logical about your post whatsoever. You have a pet hate issue that your bringing to the discussion which also could be considered ridiculous.

Agueroooo · 29-05-2014 01:14PM

so bleedin obvious its comical

whatawaster · 29-05-2014 01:15PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes when Shaw is the better player both
attacking and defending, 3 years younger and proven consistently in a better league than La Liga

I also think you've changed your tune on this, I'll have a look through posts later but I think you were all for signing Shaw at one point for 30 million

*and Shaw is English

Better defender, 100%

But I think Moreno is better going forward, more explosive and likely to make something happen.

Regardless, Shaw is not twice as good as Moreno.

The big upside with Shaw is that if United/Chelsea/Pool signed him - they have him for life. English players tend not to go abroad and tend not to move between big clubs within England.

With Moreno, if he gets really good you know either Real or Barca will come calling.

ThunbergsAreGo · 29-05-2014 01:16PM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Flip it again; Big jump from Europa league to Champions League

Moreno has only 45 appearances since 2012 and he's 3 years older. He only has 1 more cap for Spain since 2013. Shaw had his first cap only this year.

Azpilicueta will start ahead of Moreno for Spain in the WC.

Shaw has 60 appearances since 2012 and will get defiantly his chance at WC.

Nothing more logical about your post whatsoever. You have a pet hate issue that your bringing to the discussion which also could be considered ridiculous.

No he wont, Baines is almost a certainty to start

Shaw has no goals and one assist over two seasons. Not sure the better attacking thing stacks up.

I do think he is a good player but think 30m for ANY fullback who isnt outstanding (Alves, Lahm) is madness

Nuri Sahin · 29-05-2014 01:18PM

Opinion and stats backing up said opinion > opinion. I can't be arsed looking for my Moreno v Shaw posts a couple of weeks ago, maybe someone else can trawl through my posts re-post them.

Delighted if we do sign Moreno.

Rayne Wooney · 29-05-2014 01:18PM

Knex. wrote: »

There is a lot of opinion stated as fact in your post.

I'm not even sure if I disagree/agree with you or not, but its a bit mad (Ted), to be definitive and certain about it.

I'll grant you the three years thing, though :pac:

I'm fairy sure the stats prove the attacking and defending part

So that leaves the premier league being better than La Liga part

It's probably not the thread to discuss that at length but a simple yes or no if you believe, overall, the premier league is better quality than la Liga should wrap this up fairly quickly

yomtea98 · 29-05-2014 01:21PM

Moreno didn't look all that in EL final.

8-10 · 29-05-2014 01:21PM

Where's all this Shaw talk coming from?

ThunbergsAreGo · 29-05-2014 01:21PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I'm fairy sure the stats prove the attacking and defending part

So that leaves the premier league being better than La Liga part

It's probably not the thread to discuss that at length but a simple yes or no if you believe, overall, the premier league is better quality than la Liga should wrap this up fairly quickly

No they dont

Knex* · 29-05-2014 01:22PM

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Flip it again; Big jump from Europa league to Champions League

Moreno has only 45 appearances since 2012 and he's 3 years older. He only has 1 more cap for Spain since 2013. Shaw had his first cap only this year.

Azpilicueta will start ahead of Moreno for Spain in the WC.

Shaw has 60 appearances since 2012 and will get defiantly his chance at WC.

Nothing more logical about your post whatsoever. You have a pet hate issue that your bringing to the discussion which also could be considered ridiculous.

We can agree so that to come out and say, definitely, that one player is definitely better than another, is fairly ludicrous so?

:pac:

Also, in terms of attacking style, I think Moreno suits our system more, actually. Shaw is an orthodox crosser when he gets forward, almost Downing like, and its not exactly how we play.

Anyway, get either and I'd be ecstatic. I do think Moreno is more of a realistic option for us, however.

whatawaster · 29-05-2014 01:23PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I'm fairy sure the stats prove the attacking and defending part

So that leaves the premier league being better than La Liga part

It's probably not the thread to discuss that at length but a simple yes or no if you believe, overall, the premier league is better quality than la Liga should wrap this up fairly quickly

last 2 seasons

Luke Shaw - 68 appearances, 0 goals, 1 assist

Alberto Moreno - 67 appearances, 3 goals, 4 assists

What does that prove?

Dickerty · 29-05-2014 01:23PM

whatawaster wrote: »

The big upside with Shaw is that if United/Chelsea/Pool signed him - they have him for life. English players tend not to go abroad and tend not to move between big clubs within England.

With Moreno, if he gets really good you know either Real or Barca will come calling.

I wouldn't worry about that just yet. If Shaw gets to the level that some expect, there is no certainty that the same two teams wouldn't be interested.
And if we had Moreno and they did come knocking, it would be a very expensive move, so there is that upside.

29-05-2014 01:24PM

Agueroooo wrote: »

Is the EPL experience worth an extra £30million ?

Shaw @£;30mil + £120k pw x 5yrs = £61.2 million

Moreno @£;16mil +£60kpw x 5yrs = £31.5million

Yes he is worth so much more because he's the better of the two and the younger of the two. That's where the valuation of a players quality typically comes from.

Pulling in wage calculations :rolleyes: another discussion altogether.

Dickerty wrote: »

Which should that "EPL Proven" label counts for very little.

Aguero, Suarez, Toure, Silva, Mata, Kompany etc etc were not EPL proven, but were more successful than Carroll, Downing, Adebayor to City, Torres to Chelsea, Berbatov to United, who were all PL proven...

Quality is quality, however you look at it...

I could add a list 3 times the length who failed in the EPL that transferred from Europe if your looking to go down that road which I am not. Picking players at will to fit the discussion and excluding others just to try and prove a point. Meh.

Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread Summer 2014 - Mod Warning post #6893

Comments