Are you a feminist?

the culture of deference · 24-05-2014 04:43PM

Equality for all.
That includes the same rights for men that women have.

It depends on how the sexes are brought up. (generalisation coming up)
Girls are frilly and pink and learn to manipulate better, most boys hone their sports skills and batter each other, leading to better spacial abilities and confidence. Today women waste far too much time decorating themselves, time that could be used more productively in comparison to men. Why is this not addressed?

Collectively women are stronger, more organised, and smarter than men but seem incapable of group bonding. Men only control the planet because of that.

beano345 · 24-05-2014 04:49PM

the culture of deference wrote: »

Equality for all.
That includes the same rights for men that women have.

It depends on how the sexes are brought up.
Girls are frilly and pink and learn to manipulate better, most boys hone their sports skills and batter each other, leading to better spacial abilities nad confidence. Today women waste far too much time decorating themselves, time that could be used more productively in comparison to men. Why is this not addressed?

Collectively women are stronger, more organised, and smarter than men but seem incapable of group bonding. Men only control the planet because of that.

I'd disagree with your last bit,most things in this world have been invented,designed and built by guess who? Yup

AudreyHepburn · 24-05-2014 04:50PM

alroley wrote: »

Feminism is wanting equal rights.

It should be and I have no doubt it was in the beginning. But I'm not s o sure it is anymore.

GarIT · 24-05-2014 04:51PM

Pwindedd wrote: »

I disagree with your definition of feminsm. But that's ok disagreement is allowed. Personally I have never seen feminsm as the rights of women OVER the rights of men. I don't know many people that would support this. I would only support gender quotas on jury's and job roles that involve personal searches, intimate contact etc. eg airport security.

I'm interested in those stats in relation to men and women with equal qualifications and experience. Can you link please. Thanks.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-study-finds-gender-gap-in-irish-pay-women-without-children-earn-more-than-male-counterparts-184084061-237553991.html

Feminists who are feminist activists all aim to achieve equal rights for women, equal rights for men is just something that they don't disagree with.

Even in the positions you listed gender quotas are wrong, the employer will hire the gender necessary for searches, they shouldn't be forced to have a certain amount of each. The gender of a jury doesn't matter at all.

Wibbs · 24-05-2014 04:51PM

No. Well to be clear I do hold with the bones of equality based feminism, however I take issue with some of the cherry picking of issues and basis for those issues of some feminists when it distracts or purposely excludes men and indeed women who don't buy into some of this stuff. The rarified US college left wing feminism would be a particular GTFO for me.

Wibbs · 24-05-2014 04:53PM

the culture of deference wrote: »

Collectively women are stronger, more organised, and smarter than men but seem incapable of group bonding. Men only control the planet because of that.

Oh man I'm lolling here. :pac::pac:

kowloon · 24-05-2014 04:57PM

Muise... wrote: »

"Equal rights" can't be applied to reproductive choices as easily as to the franchise, for example, and leads to stupid whatabouteries.

Where's the foetus going to gestate? You going to keep it in a box?! :pac:

Wibbs · 24-05-2014 05:02PM

The vast majority of the dafter end of feminism came from those US ivory tower colleges and sadly too much of it ended up in the mainstream without the vigorous critique it sorely needed and still needs. IMHO it's what has led to the notion of some low level gender war BS that's on the go at the moment. The internet and its army of crosseyed gobshítes that now had a voice to bolster this BS on blogs and the like really didn't help. That led to the anti feminist BS of your PUA/MGTOW guff getting way more airtime than they deserve, even if they had some valid points like fathers rights etc.

Zulu · 24-05-2014 05:04PM

I'm egalitarian. Equality will only be reached when we stop prioritising people based on their gender.
A scales will never be balanced if we only seek to add weight to one side.

Pwindedd · 24-05-2014 05:06PM

GarIT wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-study-finds-gender-gap-in-irish-pay-women-without-children-earn-more-than-male-counterparts-184084061-237553991.html

Feminists who are feminist activists all aim to achieve equal rights for women, equal rights for men is just something that they don't disagree with.

Even in the positions you listed gender quotas are wrong, the employer will hire the gender necessary for searches, they shouldn't be forced to have a certain amount of each. The gender of a jury doesn't matter at all.

Your link doesn't really back up your original claim that women on average earn more in Ireland for the same skillset and experience, but thanks anyway.

You need at least one female for searches on mixed gender searchees. That's a quota. Likewise I think juries should be mixed genders. But that doesn't need a quota it tends to happen naturally these days. Not always the case in the past.

J_E · 24-05-2014 05:10PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

I'm an egalitarian.

Doesn't egalitarianism as a concept just not work though? In an ideal egalitarian world nobody could be seen as exceptional or better because that creates inequality. I just never understood how that works. If someone works harder and does better, don't they deserve more?

I don't believe in flat-out 'equality' because I think it's just oversimplified to box everything into the same 'equal' status rather than celebrate what makes humanity diverse. Trying to be 'blind' to difference is against human nature and just a backwards way of dismissing issues, in a sense.

I do believe in justice and rights, and what is deemed fair, and I think that's a little more realistic.

The web kids who try to push every issue going as a narcissism project for their egos can go screw themselves.

GarIT · 24-05-2014 05:13PM

Pwindedd wrote: »

Your link doesn't really back up your original claim that women on average earn more in Ireland for the same skillset and experience, but thanks anyway.

You need at least one female for searches on mixed gender searchees. That's a quota. Likewise I think juries should be mixed genders. But that doesn't need a quota it tends to happen naturally these days. Not always the case in the past.

If you go through the links in the link, it states that they only counted comparisons where two people had the same job, similar experience, similar qualifications and were in the current company for the same amount of time and the result was that where gender is the only difference between the participants women earn 17% more than men.

Generally when a quota is mentioned it is meant as in a law, assuming that a woman is needed to search women isn't necessarily a quota.

Can you explain why you think juries needs to have a similar number of men and women.

Buroschaf · 24-05-2014 05:16PM

Candie wrote: »

Why? why? why?

We all know how this is going to end up, with petty digs and even pettier rhetoric.

Too late, it's started already.

You do realise you aren't being forced to read this thread.

creolebelle · 24-05-2014 05:19PM

Yes and no. I can be considered a feminist because I believe in equal rights for women. But I also prefer traditional gender roles in my romantic relationships with men

RDM_83 again · 24-05-2014 05:20PM

anncoates wrote: »

Definitely.

A rugged yet sensitive male one

Please allow your knickers to fall like autumn leaves in a gale..

Your allowed to make that joke though :mad: if a man calls another man on white-knighting on here or says he's calling himself a feminist to make himself more appealing your considered a Neanderthal

Buroschaf · 24-05-2014 05:21PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

In Ireland and most (all?) other western nations, women do have equal rights. Can it be said that women are discriminated against by law in Ireland? No. I see feminism nowadays more about giving women choices. It's not someone's right to earn 100k a year but everyone should have the option to strive for that if they wish. In the past, women didn't have that choice.

You are not entitled to something simply because of your gender.

Can you clarify when women didn't have the option to strive for a 100k salary when men did?

I'm not saying there wasn't a time.

Buroschaf · 24-05-2014 05:22PM

creolebelle wrote: »

Yes and no. I can be considered a feminist because I believe in equal rights for women. But I also prefer traditional gender roles in my romantic relationships with men

I think sex is usually better all things equal when the man is the dominant one in the relationship and the bedroom.

kowloon · 24-05-2014 05:24PM

GarIT wrote: »

A simple solution to sexism in law though is just to ban the use of genders in the constitution and law, it sorts all the gay rights issues too, everyone happy?

I often wonder why laws have to specify gender at all. It would clear up some of the mess.

As for the gender quotas thing, I have a friend who is an engineer, has a PhD and a really good job. I spoke to her about the whole 'engineering for girls'* issue, i.e. should girls/women be offered more financial support and/or the preferential allocation of places.
She worked hard to get where she is and has the respect of the vast majority of her co-workers (I gather there's one particular exception). If there were quotas introduced that would completely undermine anything she has achieved and make it a gender issue, not a being good at what you do issue.
I had a similar discussion with a US history professor about positive discrimination. I know the intention is to correct a problem but I think all it does is fuel the fire and create resentment.

* Reference to a very cringey engineering for girls poster that I can't find on google images.

tritium · 24-05-2014 05:26PM

dafunk wrote: »

I haven't read all the responses but it would appear that not many people understand what feminism is.

Look it up in a dictionary!

Feminism = EQUAL rights for women.

To say you are not a feminist is no different to describing yourself as a racist or homophobe.

You mean theoretical as opposed to applied

Look I can call myself a love and peace and justice person but if my actions aren't compatible with that then any insult I aim at those who call me out on that is just me being a d1ck

anncoates · 24-05-2014 05:27PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Your allowed to make that joke though :mad: if a man calls another man on white-knighting on here or says he's calling himself a feminist to make himself more appealing your considered a Neanderthal

Er...

Zulu · 24-05-2014 05:27PM

Cydoniac wrote: »

Doesn't egalitarianism as a concept just not work though? In an ideal egalitarian world nobody could be seen as exceptional or better because that creates inequality. I just never understood how that works. If someone works harder and does better, don't they deserve more?

I don't believe in flat-out 'equality' because I think it's just oversimplified to box everything into the same 'equal' status rather than celebrate what makes humanity diverse. Trying to be 'blind' to difference is against human nature and just a backwards way of dismissing issues, .

are you confusing egalitarianism with socialism?
An egalitarian recognises differences but treats all equally.

py2006 · 24-05-2014 05:32PM

Most definitely not.

I do believe and want equality for women but I also recognise and acknowledge and speak about the inequalities facing men (much to the annoyance of a lot of feminists I have come across on here and in real life).

Muise... · 24-05-2014 05:35PM

anncoates wrote: »

Er...

:pac:

Happened to me the other day, Ann.

Pwindedd · 24-05-2014 05:37PM

GarIT wrote: »

If you go through the links in the link, it states that they only counted comparisons where two people had the same job, similar experience, similar qualifications and were in the current company for the same amount of time and the result was that where gender is the only difference between the participants women earn 17% more than men.

Generally when a quota is mentioned it is meant as in a law, assuming that a woman is needed to search women isn't necessarily a quota.

Can you explain why you think juries needs to have a similar number of men and women.

Agreed, but that particular statistic was based on women with no dependants - over half the female working population have children (http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/ireland_in_the_eu/impact_of_eu_on_irish_women/index_en.htm#1) and in these cases the statistics differed. I'm no expert on statistics but when these women are factored in, I'd say your 17% is a misleading figure on the situation as a whole in Ireland.

In answer to your last question - I didn't say similar - I just don't think all male or female is acceptable. Humans being what they are, I just think you need a good mix. There are subtle differences between the way men and women think. Different preconceptions and problem solving styles. I think the bigger pool of perspectives this would bring to a jury is a good thing.

Shakespeare's Sister · 24-05-2014 05:39PM

py2006 wrote: »

Most definitely not.

I do believe and want equality for women but I also recognise and acknowledge and speak about the inequalities facing men

Not sure how being a feminist would automatically stop someone from holding those views in relation to men too.
Not saying you should be a feminist obviously, but it isn't always either/or.

Muise... · 24-05-2014 05:48PM

Buroschaf wrote: »

I think sex is usually better all things equal when the man is the dominant one in the relationship and the bedroom.

You do know that the S actually calls the shots though?

Pwindedd · 24-05-2014 05:53PM

Feminist is clearly the word of contention here.

If the poll question were - do you believe in equal rights for men and women?

Then I can't help but think the poll results would be wildly different,but to my mind anyway, they're the same thing.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 24-05-2014 05:55PM

Pwindedd wrote: »

Feminist is clearly the word of contention here.

If the poll question were - do you believe in equal rights for men and women?

Then I can't help but think the poll results would be wildly different,but to my mind anyway, they're the same thing.

Nope, that's what Egalitarianism is.

Feminism is establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women.

RDM_83 again · 24-05-2014 05:58PM

anncoates wrote: »

Er...

I presumed of the username your a woman? and that was a joke about guys calling themselves feminists to get laid?
Maybe I should just have a cup of tea this gender warring is hard work I don;t know how they have the energy on reddit

Pwindedd · 24-05-2014 06:06PM

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Nope, that's what Egalitarianism is.

Feminism is establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women.

Say in an ideal world women have the exactly the same rights as men. In everything, no more and no less. Absolutely no difference at all. Does that not mean that men also have exactly equal rights? Is that not the end goal. We're just arguing over a word here.

In light of the state of equalitarianism (sounds far too Orwellian) in other countries, we pretty much have it sussed in Ireland, I'm not going to say I'm not a feminist because some people have deemed the word to have sexist implications.

Are you a feminist?

Comments