Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread Summer 2014 - Mod Warning post #6893

Gbear · 13-05-2014 12:51PM

asdfgh86 wrote: »

I feel like his ungainliness causes more problems then just making him look awkward on the ball. I think he swings at things wildly

Case in point

And is often off balance making him easy to go around

There's no defending the first thing against Dzeko - it was wild and it's something he needs to work on.

On the 2nd, you can show defenders getting beaten a dozen times a game. That's why you have a defence and not 1 defender.
Skrtel was there to cover and he was unlucky the ball dropped for Shelvey.

Kess73 · 13-05-2014 12:54PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

One observation I made while watching Sakho this year is he tends to pass back to Mignolet an awfull lot which in itself causes trouble as Mignolet isn't great with his feet.

It was just an observation from watching the games and have no stats to back up

Don't have any stats to hand, but from watching the guy first hand in most of the games he played in, I don't think any of our centre backs passed the ball forward into the other team's half as often as Sakho did.

If I had to guess with regards to who from the back line passed it back to Mignolet the most, then I would have gone with Johnson or Gerrard.

Knex* · 13-05-2014 12:55PM

If you think a player is genuinely worth 20m, and the team in question want 25m, you have to ask where are we in our rebuilding stage.

For me, regardless of whether its Lallana or say a Griezmann, if we're willing to offer 20m, we should probably be willing to offer 25m if its what Rodgers wants.

We need first team quality that improves our starting 11. We need players who fit the system, and players that Rodgers likes and trusts. If Lallana is one of them, and paying 25m doesn't mean we miss out on upgrading another position, which lets be fair it shouldn't, then go for it.

We are no longer burdened with aging, overpaid players. Our squad is small, and relatively consists of value for money (wages anyway). Remove Johnson and Enrique, and get adequate improvements in, and you're laughing really from a business value aspect.

Would I prefer going for Kono, or Griezmann, or someone else for similar prices, or cheaper? Yeah. But compared to Rodgers and the folks at Liverpool, what the heck do I know about football, really.

I'm refusing to get emotionally invested in our transfer dealings. Certainly not before I see them leaning against a post in a Liverpool jersey, anyway.

I said it yesterday, but thank Jesus the World Cup is on this summer for a distraction.

SlickRic · 13-05-2014 12:57PM

Divock Origi is 19, and has been selected in the Belgian squad.

rumour has it, we've been looking at him.

anyone know anything, bar the fact he's at Lille?

Sappy404 · 13-05-2014 01:00PM

mike65 wrote: »

This is just nuts - 31 goals since he joined.

Had my doubts about Sturridge during the season. He proved me wrong time and again.

He came in to the end of the season off-form and got injured for a couple. I'm not doubting he'll have another good season next year off the back of that.

SlickRic · 13-05-2014 01:01PM

oh sorry, obligatory Youtube compilation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEJNUEQTIbk

Kess73 · 13-05-2014 01:02PM

asdfgh86 wrote: »

Yeah I see his pass completion stats posted a lot, which would be grand if the "goals conceded when he plays" stat wasn't so abysmal.

I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, mind. And I often am.:pac:

Funny you mention "goals conceded when he plays" type stats, was looking on another site earlier and there was a link that showed that over the past three seasons that our worst form for conceding goals always came when Skrtel was part of the team. Agger was the defender whose stats were the best during the same period.

But what it highlighted was that regardless of who partnered Skrtel, the team was conceding more goals with him in it.

The best CB partnership in terms of not conceding (but as it came over the smallest sample of games and it loses some credibility as a result) was Toure and Agger.

Knex* · 13-05-2014 01:04PM

Skrtel's win % before this season was something shocking. Around 30%, I believe.

Sappy404 · 13-05-2014 01:05PM

SlickRic wrote: »

Divock Origi is 19, and has been selected in the Belgian squad.

rumour has it, we've been looking at him.

anyone know anything, bar the fact he's at Lille?

He's Belgian?

googled eyes · 13-05-2014 01:05PM

You're all arguing about Sakho

looking up .gifs for next season.

Devilman40k · 13-05-2014 01:06PM

Sakho v Agger comparison for what its worth

921 Passes 796
92.4% Passing Accuracy 89.1%
86.6% Passing Accuracy opp. Half (%) 75.6%
87 Duels Won 85
61 Duels lost 39
58.8% Duels won (%) 68.5%
48 Aerial duels won 45
37 Aerial duels lost 25
56.5% Aerial Duels Won (%) 64.3%
108 Recoveries 65
25 Tackles Won 20
2 Tackles Lost 7
92.6% Tackles Won (%) 74.1%
136 Clearances 114
7 Blocks 8
27 Interceptions 20
0 Penalties conceded 1
8 Fouls Won 11
10 Fouls Conceded 10
0 Yellow Cards 0
0 Red Cards 0

Utopia Parkway · 13-05-2014 01:10PM

Knex. wrote: »

I said it yesterday, but thank Jesus the World Cup is on this summer for a distraction.

I'm looking forward to watching some football where I don't really care about the result.

Raif Severance · 13-05-2014 01:13PM

googled eyes wrote: »

Twatter about Mascherano coming back to us or Napoli.

I haven't watched any Barca games. How's he doing ?

Does he fit the profile of players that the club wants these days ?

I have watched Barca numerous times this Season, and he always play as a CB.

TBH I haven't seen Masch play as a Midfielder in a Long Time. So I don't know how he'd do as a DM for us.

And I doubt we'd get him as a CB, if we indeed do go for him, that is.

Kess73 · 13-05-2014 01:15PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Kess, I know you've been a long time admirer of his, but surely you have to admit he has been very disappointing to date?

Don't think he has be very disappointing at all this season. Have been at pretty much every game he has played in this season, admittedly that is not a high figure as he only played a part in 18 or 19 games, and have rarely left a ground thinking "meh" in relation to his play.

I genuinely believe the fact that he has a very ungainly looking style and the fact he is not really a highlights reel type player goes against him.

His positioning is generally very good, he is excellent at making himself available for a pass, he is one of the best in the team at finding a teammate with the ball, he is probably our best defender when it comes to defending space off the ball and as a result blocking avenues for the other team to exploit.

He has not been flawless this season, and I think that it has very much been a settling in season, but he will be, imo of course, a high calibre centre back that does the non flashy but essential stuff well, and I would expect him to hit the ground running next season. Had very high hopes for him when he signed, and I have seen nothing this season that has had me want to change my mind on that.

Basically all most folk have to judge his Liverpool career on is from the 18 or 19 games he has played in. That would hardly be regarded as much more than a settle in period for most players.

asdfgh86 · 13-05-2014 01:16PM

whatawaster wrote: »

He was our best defender against Palace. Liverpool conceded 3 goals. Don't remember him being at fault for any of them

I don't think Sakho has been directly at fault for many goals this season. I just think we've been very shaky at the back with him in the team. I know you can put that down to all sorts of factors–Maybe Skrtel is the weak link–But when Skrtel plays with Agger the whole team looks more solid and Skrtel gets important goals. Sakho's individual stats are good on paper but he's failed to make up a good centre back pairing.

I think Agger is more often directly at fault for goals conceded but I think he's a much better organiser of defence.

Kess73 · 13-05-2014 01:17PM

Devilman40k wrote: »

Sakho v Agger comparison for what its worth

921 Passes 796
92.4% Passing Accuracy 89.1%
86.6% Passing Accuracy opp. Half (%) 75.6%
87 Duels Won 85
61 Duels lost 39
58.8% Duels won (%) 68.5%
48 Aerial duels won 45
37 Aerial duels lost 25
56.5% Aerial Duels Won (%) 64.3%
108 Recoveries 65
25 Tackles Won 20
2 Tackles Lost 7
92.6% Tackles Won (%) 74.1%
136 Clearances 114
7 Blocks 8
27 Interceptions 20
0 Penalties conceded 1
8 Fouls Won 11
10 Fouls Conceded 10
0 Yellow Cards 0
0 Red Cards 0

So reading that, Sakho scores very highly against a well established International level centre back who is long settled at the club.

Kess73 · 13-05-2014 01:19PM

asdfgh86 wrote: »

I don't think Sakho has been directly at fault for many goals this season. I just think we've been very shaky at the back with him in the team. I know you can put that down to all sorts of factors–Maybe Skrtel is the weak link–But when Skrtel plays with Agger the whole team looks more solid and Skrtel gets important goals. Sakho's individual stats are good on paper but he's failed to make up a good centre back pairing.

I think Agger is more often directly at fault for goals conceded but I think he's a much better organiser of defence.

He has played a part in only 18 or 19 games, and at least six of those games were at left back or as part of a three CB system. To be fair it would difficult for him to have developed a solid partnership in such a small sample of games

Knex* · 13-05-2014 01:20PM

Sakho has shown enough, both at Liverpool and at PSG, for me to be quite excited about our 23 year old, French International, new player in a foreign team whereby he is only learning the language, and former PSG captain, center back.

Replacing him, or writing him off already is bizarre, to say the least.

Devilman40k · 13-05-2014 01:22PM

Knex. wrote: »

Sakho has shown enough, both at Liverpool and at PSG, for me to be quite excited about our 23 year old, French International, new player in a foreign team whereby he is only learning the language, and former PSG captain, center back.

Replacing him, or writing him off already is bizarre, to say the least.

Similar to a lot of us here (myself included) writing Henderson off after 10 games with the club.

Sakho has done well enough.

5live · 13-05-2014 01:27PM

Knex. wrote: »

If you think a player is genuinely worth 20m, and the team in question want 25m, you have to ask where are we in our rebuilding stage.

For me, regardless of whether its Lallana or say a Griezmann, if we're willing to offer 20m, we should probably be willing to offer 25m if its what Rodgers wants.

We need first team quality that improves our starting 11. We need players who fit the system, and players that Rodgers likes and trusts. If Lallana is one of them, and paying 25m doesn't mean we miss out on upgrading another position, which lets be fair it shouldn't, then go for it.

We are no longer burdened with aging, overpaid players. Our squad is small, and relatively consists of value for money (wages anyway). Remove Johnson and Enrique, and get adequate improvements in, and you're laughing really from a business value aspect.

Would I prefer going for Kono, or Griezmann, or someone else for similar prices, or cheaper? Yeah. But compared to Rodgers and the folks at Liverpool, what the heck do I know about football, really.

I'm refusing to get emotionally invested in our transfer dealings. Certainly not before I see them leaning against a post in a Liverpool jersey, anyway.

I said it yesterday, but thank Jesus the World Cup is on this summer for a distraction.

Will you use that argument when we sign Caulker from Cardiff:-)

Kess73 · 13-05-2014 01:29PM

Devilman40k wrote: »

Similar to a lot of us here (myself included) writing Henderson off after 10 games with the club.

Sakho has done well enough.

Henderson was poor for much of his first season, and I did not want him near the club after that season due to his hiding on the pitch.

He has since then turned himself into a player that rarely hides, and who earned every minute he played during the season just gone.

Sakho on the other hand has ranged from very good to very average during his first season, and has shown more than enough to be given a crack at nailing down a first team slot next season.

Personally I think Sakho will show his worth when he has a new full time partner beside him, and I think he will have one next season. Unlike the previous two seasons when I came on here and said I was 100% we were not selling a senior centre back, this summer I think we are going to lose at least one, and see a new (and possibly big name) centre back come in.

Knex* · 13-05-2014 01:33PM

5live wrote: »

Will you use that argument when we sign Caulker from Cardiff:-)

Ah, its kind of different there. Caulker would probably sit behind Skrtel from the start of the season, and be used to see if he could push on and become a starter.

I actually rate him highly enough too. He's 22. For some perspective, actually, both for Sakho and Caulker, Chris Smalling is 24.

These are both young defenders with huge potential. Only thing I don't like about Caulker deal, providing he doesn't cost 10m+ (still beats the Ashley Williams rumours from before), is that we have Ilori as the up and coming RCB.

If we're spending money on a CB right now, I'd probably prefer we spend more on experience. Similar to when Arsenal brought Mertesacker in.

Rami is on loan at Milan, right? No idea how he got on this season, I must admit, but I was a fan of his at Valencia and the little I saw of him at Lille.

LuckyLloyd · 13-05-2014 01:34PM

Gary Medel imo. Long season coming up. Would be a very good option. Would be reasonably priced.

Devilman40k · 13-05-2014 01:35PM

Kess73 wrote: »

Henderson was poor for much of his first season, and I did not want him near the club after that season due to his hiding on the pitch.

He has since then turned himself into a player that rarely hides, and who earned every minute he played during the season just gone.

Sakho on the other hand has ranged from very good to very average during his first season, and has shown more than enough to be given a crack at nailing down a first team slot next season.

Personally I think Sakho will show his worth when he has a new full time partner beside him, and I think he will have one next season. Unlike the previous two seasons when I came on here and said I was 100% we were not selling a senior centre back, this summer I think we are going to lose at least one, and see a new (and possibly big name) centre back come in.

Not arguing on Henderson, he was dire in that first season. The point though is how he turned himself around and earned his place from such a low base.

Sakho has, in my opinion, performed far better than Henderson in his first season and can only improve and will be one hell of a CB in years to come.

Knex* · 13-05-2014 01:35PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Gary Medel imo. Long season coming up. Would be a very good option. Would be reasonably priced.

Beats going back for Masch and is probably an improvement on Lucas right now. Yeah, would be happy to have him.

Francie Barrett · 13-05-2014 01:37PM

Agree. When you consider the amount of games that he has started, and what he has shown at times, it's far too quick to be passing judgement on Sakho. Let's what until this time next year, hopefully Sakho can stay injury free and string a decent number of appearances together and strike up a partnership with another defender.

Other than bringing in a full back, I think the real key in all this isn't more players, it's finding a decent combination of what we have. Going by Brendan's comments, he's well aware of this and it will be a focus for him this Summer.

Kess73 · 13-05-2014 01:38PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Gary Medel imo. Long season coming up. Would be a very good option. Would be reasonably priced.

Have been suggesting him on here long before he went to Cardiff. Has far more to his game than he seems to get credit for, and has had a season to get used to the UK.

redzerdrog · 13-05-2014 01:39PM

Do you guys think we have a realistic chance of landing Javi Martinez?

If there is he should be the No1 transfer target for the summer

I suspect that we don't have a chance to be honest

Dickerty · 13-05-2014 01:40PM

So Kess, who is your choice to partner him next season, assuming it's a new player?

Beasty · 13-05-2014 01:42PM

Raif Severance wrote: »

I Posted this awhile back, but didn't get an Answer, so I guess I'll Post it again.

Is Nuri Banned? Haven't seen him in awhile. He's usually in the Thick of Things Madness around here.

On mobile at present with limited modding powers but the next person to start a discussion concerning the ban status of other users (and this will extend to any forum feedback thread) will find themselves banned. This is not a topic for discussion outside of Dispute and Prison threads. Any sanctions I impose at CMod level will be outside the forum totting up process.

Thanks

Beasty

Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread Summer 2014 - Mod Warning post #6893

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