Official bitch about daily life in UL

wnolan1992 · 08-05-2014 08:21PM

Cossax wrote: »

I've never experienced lighting as being an issue but ulwireless is awful alright.
While I can appreciate the huge increase in the number of smartphones, tablets and laptops on campus, that has been ramping up over years and quite what ITD have been doing, bar sitting on their hands, is beyond me.

I can't speak to the exact thinking behind the ban but there are areas (thinking of the Schumann exam venues and maybe outside the Sports Hall also but I haven't been to an exam in there since it was rebuilt) where leaving bags outside is a safety issue. There's obviously also the thievery issue as I've seen signs up about it around exam time previously.

Maybe an invigilator can clarify about inside exam venues and whether that needed policing or what, exactly.

Ah leave ITD alone, they're too busy not fixing the studentmail system to do anything else.

Jester252 · 08-05-2014 09:30PM

garv123 wrote: »

SO how do these cheaters manage to get to the back of the room like a ninja to get to their bags? whats this new rule going to achieve?

Dont see how these rules will help one bit.

It removes notes from the exam hall. So student are less likely to cheat at the last minute. Student have only have themselves to blame for these new rules

Ave Sodalis · 08-05-2014 10:09PM

Jester252 wrote: »

It removes notes from the exam hall. So student are less likely to cheat at the last minute. Student have only have themselves to blame for these new rules

A vast majority of students don't cheat so "students have only themselves to blame" won't wash. Having the notes at the back of the room is not equal to having them beside you unless someone has developed xray vision that they can read the notes from inside bags. I don't see how they can cheat last minute with notes in the exam hall or, as the rules also state, outside of the exam hall.
Basically, these new rules don't make sense. They serve no purpose and will have no effect on the stats of cheaters, which I can only imagine are quite low as it is.

Jester252 · 08-05-2014 11:22PM

sup_dude wrote: »

A vast majority of students don't cheat so "students have only themselves to blame" won't wash. Having the notes at the back of the room is not equal to having them beside you unless someone has developed xray vision that they can read the notes from inside bags. I don't see how they can cheat last minute with notes in the exam hall or, as the rules also state, outside of the exam hall.
Basically, these new rules don't make sense. They serve no purpose and will have no effect on the stats of cheaters, which I can only imagine are quite low as it is.

All cheaters are students. The only reason the new rules where add is because students are subverting the system so the system add the new rules to help combat these students. The rules weren't added for the lols.

Cheating is a last ditch attempt, a panicking student might try to slip some notes up his sleeve while he is in the exam hall.

Now going by how many people have issue and difficulty with the new system, so will the would be cheater. Students finding these rules hard justify them.

Reiver · 08-05-2014 11:27PM

Well duh all cheaters are students. I can't see it being too beneficial for an invigilator. Or even possible.

Cheaters subvert the system but how does not allowing their bags at the back of the hall effectively combat cheating?

Someone cheating is more likely to have notes stuffed in their sock, go for a dump and read it in the toilet cubicle. No one's that much of a gombeen to have notes hidden up a sleeve, this isnt the Simpsons.

Jester252 · 09-05-2014 01:12AM

Reiver wrote: »

Well duh all cheaters are students. I can't see it being too beneficial for an invigilator. Or even possible.

Cheaters subvert the system but how does not allowing their bags at the back of the hall effectively combat cheating?

Someone cheating is more likely to have notes stuffed in their sock, go for a dump and read it in the toilet cubicle. No one's that much of a gombeen to have notes hidden up a sleeve, this isnt the Simpsons.

It's about making it harder, which is working. It's targeting the last minute cheater. The less items that a student brings into the exam hall the less places he has to hide the notes. You only have yourself to thank for the new rules

garv123 · 09-05-2014 01:34AM

Jester252 wrote: »

It removes notes from the exam hall. So student are less likely to cheat at the last minute. Student have only have themselves to blame for these new rules

So the people who decide to cheat last minute will do it a few minutes before the exam instead?

Ban toilet breaks if they really want to stop cheating.. see how that will work though..

freyners · 09-05-2014 05:06AM

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Ah leave ITD alone, they're too busy not fixing the studentmail system to do doing anything at all else.

FYP

Ave Sodalis · 09-05-2014 06:13AM

Jester252 wrote: »

It's about making it harder, which is working. It's targeting the last minute cheater. The less items that a student brings into the exam hall the less places he has to hide the notes. You only have yourself to thank for the new rules

How is it working? Have you access to something we don't that you know this? If students are gonna stick notes up their sleeve, they can just as easily do it before they get to centre. Actually, it'd be more easy. Less items? You still bring as many items to your table as before. It makes no difference in that regard.
No matter how many times you say it, the fact still remains that a huge majority of students do not cheat and therefore are not to blame for the actions of few. Honestly Jester, sometimes I wonder whether or not the bane of your life is UL and everything in it.

Agent_99 · 09-05-2014 06:47AM

Reiver wrote: »

Well duh all cheaters are students. I can't see it being too beneficial for an invigilator. Or even possible.

Cheaters subvert the system but how does not allowing their bags at the back of the hall effectively combat cheating?

Someone cheating is more likely to have notes stuffed in their sock, go for a dump and read it in the toilet cubicle. No one's that much of a gombeen to have notes hidden up a sleeve, this isnt the Simpsons.

Last semester we were in a exam hall there were several modules being run at the same time, there was a guy who pulled notes from his sleeve and starting writing furiously. So it does happen.

freyners · 09-05-2014 07:06AM

Agent_99 wrote: »

Last semester we were in a exam hall there were several modules being run at the same time, there was a guy who pulled notes from his sleeve and starting writing furiously. So it does happen.

Hardly the bags fault that one, plus if it was that obvious the invigilator should have caught it

Jester252 · 09-05-2014 11:36AM

garv123 wrote: »

So the people who decide to cheat last minute will do it a few minutes before the exam instead?

Ban toilet breaks if they really want to stop cheating.. see how that will work though..

Can't do that due to medical reasons.

sup_dude wrote: »

How is it working? Have you access to something we don't that you know this? If students are gonna stick notes up their sleeve, they can just as easily do it before they get to centre. Actually, it'd be more easy. Less items? You still bring as many items to your table as before. It makes no difference in that regard.
No matter how many times you say it, the fact still remains that a huge majority of students do not cheat and therefore are not to blame for the actions of few. Honestly Jester, sometimes I wonder whether or not the bane of your life is UL and everything in it.

Not allowed to bring in bags or other items means that students aren't bringing in notes into the exam hall. Before the new rules, you could bring notes into the exam hall ad study before the exam started, now you can't.

The new rules where brought in due to the actions of students. They can only blame themselves. SAA and the ladies of Castletroy didn't bring in the rules for fun, they did it to combat students from cheating.

If it's not working than you wouldn't have noticed any difference instead you're here complaining about the new rules instead of studying.

Ave Sodalis · 09-05-2014 12:34PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Not allowed to bring in bags or other items means that students aren't bringing in notes into the exam hall. Before the new rules, you could bring notes into the exam hall ad study before the exam started, now you can't.

The new rules where brought in due to the actions of students. They can only blame themselves. SAA and the ladies of Castletroy didn't bring in the rules for fun, they did it to combat students from cheating.

If it's not working than you wouldn't have noticed any difference instead you're here complaining about the new rules instead of studying.

I cannot see how these new rules are going to make any difference except to inconvenience people. I know you blame the students, but you cannot blame the majority for the minority...
I don't even have exams but I know the ridiculousness of these rules. Of course people are going to notice, everyone sitting exams is affected, cheaters or not

Jester252 · 09-05-2014 12:49PM

sup_dude wrote: »

I cannot see how these new rules are going to make any difference except to inconvenience people. I know you blame the students, but you cannot blame the majority for the minority...
I don't even have exams but I know the ridiculousness of these rules. Of course people are going to notice, everyone sitting exams is affected, cheaters or not

The point is to inconvenience people. The harder it is to get notes into the exam hall the harder it is to cheat. Before the rules 90-100% of student brought in notes to the exam hall now they can't. It also takes away the excuses. Any student caught with notes in the exam hall can't create reasonable doubt.

Of course everybody sitting the exam is going to be affected, you can't just pick one person to single out. How are you meant to target cheaters? You don't know who is going to cheat before the exam. The only thing you know is that the cheater will be a student sitting an exam.

Skyrim · 09-05-2014 01:32PM

Sometimes get the feeling that i'm unwelcome in the clubs and societies office. Just need to use the computer for a few minutes :P.

Precious flower · 09-05-2014 03:59PM

Ah lads, couldn't even bring in my jacket into the exam centre! If they wanted to search it they were welcome, I just would have out it on the back of my chair! I literally only had my pens, ID card and jacket. I travel in, so I was lucky my dad gave me a lift to the bus and I didn't have to walk! I kind of only brought the essentials because I was a little too lazy to queue up at SU.:o

wnolan1992 · 09-05-2014 04:49PM

Precious flower wrote: »

Ah lads, couldn't even bring in my jacket into the exam centre! If they wanted to search it they were welcome, I just would have out it on the back of my chair! I literally only had my pens, ID card and jacket. I travel in, so I was lucky my dad gave me a lift to the bus and I didn't have to walk! I kind of only brought the essentials because I was a little too lazy to queue up at SU.:o

The rules are quite clear.

Come in naked in future to avoid this hassle.

Reiver · 09-05-2014 07:20PM

Jester252 wrote: »

The point is to inconvenience people. The harder it is to get notes into the exam hall the harder it is to cheat. Before the rules 90-100% of student brought in notes to the exam hall now they can't. It also takes away the excuses. Any student caught with notes in the exam hall can't create reasonable doubt.

Of course everybody sitting the exam is going to be affected, you can't just pick one person to single out. How are you meant to target cheaters? You don't know who is going to cheat before the exam. The only thing you know is that the cheater will be a student sitting an exam.

You must have loved 1984. Are we all thoughtcriminals then? I'm not sure what the current Newspeak jargon is for it.

Chavways · 09-05-2014 08:02PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Can't do that due to medical reasons.

Not allowed to bring in bags or other items means that students aren't bringing in notes into the exam hall. Before the new rules, you could bring notes into the exam hall ad study before the exam started, now you can't.

The new rules where brought in due to the actions of students. They can only blame themselves. SAA and the ladies of Castletroy didn't bring in the rules for fun, they did it to combat students from cheating.

If it's not working than you wouldn't have noticed any difference instead you're here complaining about the new rules instead of studying.

I had an exam in EGO10 2 days ago. I brought a sheet in with me to learn a few formulas last minute and nobody said anything to me. I had a look at it for a few minutes down the back of the hall, ripped it up,threw it in the bin and then took my seat. Just because I didn't have my bag, didn't mean I couldn't bring notes into the exam hall. I walked past 3 invigilators on my way in and none of them said anything.

Chimaera · 09-05-2014 08:57PM

I think the rules on bags/belongings is to discourage people from bringing to the exam centres at all, and it's more around theft than cheating from what I was able to figure out (the one doing the invigilator training liked the sound of her own voice way too much for my liking and it was easy to tune out!).

I could see how having bags at the back/side of some exam centres could be a trip/safety hazard for the staff too. Banning them outright is an easier solution than trying to decide which centres it's ok for, and where to draw the line. I do think they could have arranged with buildings to have a room set aside at the larger centres for people's stuff though.

The big thing with cheating this year appears to be phones: a few people have been caught this year with their phone on their knee. Phone in your pocket is a cheating risk because you can go into the toilet with it and access notes on it. Ditto having your wallet. We're under instructions to go into the rest rooms with candidates but if they choose to go into a stall there's nothing we can do to police that.

I doubt there are many people who choose to cheat at the last minute. From what we were told in training, the cheaters tend to plan quite elaborately. Tiny notes written on tiny bits of paper that are easily concealed. Arriving at the exam centre very early to get a seat near the wall: means they're only watching out on one side instead of two. Hiding notes in toilets.

Jester is somewhat right in that the increasing rules are a response to the minority that choose to subvert the exam process. Perhaps students need to look hard at their peers in this minority and encourage them to cop on. But there's always a hard core that think they're above all the rules and will put more and more effort into subverting the rules because they don't give a **** about those around them that suffer the consequences of their behaviour.

highlydebased · 09-05-2014 10:55PM

Had exam today in PESS and kept my phone and wallet on me- and it seemed the majority of my classmates did the same. Still tonnes of bags left lying around outside too.

Jester252 · 10-05-2014 12:18AM

Reiver wrote: »

You must have loved 1984. Are we all thoughtcriminals then? I'm not sure what the current Newspeak jargon is for it.

Airports must put your knickers in a twist. Making everyone go through security

Chris Martin · 10-05-2014 02:49AM

Avoiding this... Whatever perspective you take on this, you have to agree there's pros and cons to it.
Leaving bags is one thing but to strip yourself of all personal belongings is another.
Kudos to SU for speedy solution to a new set of guidelines sprung upon us about a week before oncoming exams, if that. Wearing a jacket going into second exam, because I was cold. Was the very same reason I wore a hat on my head. I had zips on my pockets, I zipped them up and proceeded, not a word said, but saying that I'd done nothing wrong. If I was asked I wouldn't have taken jacket off, I was freezing, it was a cold 9 o Clock exam. My eyes were red from lack of sleep, bags under them, pale skin, fingers jittery from mass amounts of coffee taken, I'm pretty sure I was wearing 4 different coloured items of clothing, each of which clashed worse than the last. The impression I gave off was, this ****er does not care what he looks like, and it was true. To banish jackets would be a step too far.
If they really care about cheating, ask the individual to empty pockets of jackets to see if there's any contraband in there, if so, they'll be sent to SU and at risk of being late for their exam. I agree that phones can be a dangerous weapon for a cheater, so instead of hiding them away, put them face down on your desk with the battery removed. They're visible and the temptation is removed.
The notes should never ever have been allowed in the exam hall to begin with, but to claim 90-100% of people have done it is farcical. Unless all this activity had happened before my arrival and since then has happened entirely out of my eyesight then I can't agree with it. Maybe twice in exams have I seen a sheet under someones chair they'd been studying with beforehand.. No more.
What needs to happen is a few massive examples have to be made out of some students caught cheating, like year long suspensions and the like, repeat offences resulting in expulsion. Realistically, you can't completely eradicate cheating unless you have a student:invigilator ratio of 1:1 and have to go through a metal detector before going to jacks.
It's extremely easy for someone to blame students as a whole, but if there's still such a mass amount of cheating going on, invigilators have to shoulder some of that blame..
I mean personally I didn't think it was much of a problem til I saw it on here. If it carries on the way it's going though, we'll be pushing our pens, watches and belts through a machine before getting frisked to add to the overall thrill of the exams..
My own opinion, make a few BIG examples out of some perpetrators and watch the level of cheating decline by itself.

Jester252 · 10-05-2014 03:57AM

Chris Martin wrote: »

Avoiding this... Whatever perspective you take on this, you have to agree there's pros and cons to it.
Leaving bags is one thing but to strip yourself of all personal belongings is another.
Kudos to SU for speedy solution to a new set of guidelines sprung upon us about a week before oncoming exams, if that. Wearing a jacket going into second exam, because I was cold. Was the very same reason I wore a hat on my head. I had zips on my pockets, I zipped them up and proceeded, not a word said, but saying that I'd done nothing wrong. If I was asked I wouldn't have taken jacket off, I was freezing, it was a cold 9 o Clock exam. My eyes were red from lack of sleep, bags under them, pale skin, fingers jittery from mass amounts of coffee taken, I'm pretty sure I was wearing 4 different coloured items of clothing, each of which clashed worse than the last. The impression I gave off was, this ****er does not care what he looks like, and it was true. To banish jackets would be a step too far.

People can wear jackets they just can't take them off.

If they really care about cheating, ask the individual to empty pockets of jackets to see if there's any contraband in there, if so, they'll be sent to SU and at risk of being late for their exam. I agree that phones can be a dangerous weapon for a cheater, so instead of hiding them away, put them face down on your desk with the battery removed. They're visible and the temptation is removed.
The notes should never ever have been allowed in the exam hall to begin with, but to claim 90-100% of people have done it is farcical. Unless all this activity had happened before my arrival and since then has happened entirely out of my eyesight then I can't agree with it. Maybe twice in exams have I seen a sheet under someones chair they'd been studying with beforehand.. No more.

I was referring to people notes they used to study with before the exam not cheat sheets. Have you never bought in a last minute sheet to read before the exam.

What needs to happen is a few massive examples have to be made out of some students caught cheating, like year long suspensions and the like, repeat offences resulting in expulsion. Realistically, you can't completely eradicate cheating unless you have a student:invigilator ratio of 1:1 and have to go through a metal detector before going to jacks.

How would a metal detector help find a cheat sheet?

It's extremely easy for someone to blame students as a whole, but if there's still such a mass amount of cheating going on, invigilators have to shoulder some of that blame..

Blame for what? Stopping students from cheating? The new measures where brought in due to the actions of the students.

Chris Martin · 10-05-2014 04:34AM

People can wear jackets they just can't take them off.

Then don't, they have to make a decision before they go into the hall whether to wear it or not. I got another impression from an earlier post.

I was referring to people notes they used to study with before the exam not cheat sheets. Have you never bought in a last minute sheet to read before the exam.
Into the hall itself? No.
Outside the hall, yes, and that still goes on, but I leave all academic equipment behind me when I go through those doors and sit down, bar my writing accouterments.

How would a metal detector help find a cheat sheet?
One step at a time, this one's for phones.
It's the invigilators job to make sure people aren't cheating and a vigilant invigilator would catch someone shifting nervously and glancing around or glancing at their knee. I've never had the need to in a test I've done so far, maybe glance around but when someone starts looking down it should set off alarm bells.

Blame for what? Stopping students from cheating? The new measures where brought in due to the actions of the students.
I'm aware as to why the new measures were brought in, I just believe some parts of them are extreme and they're not concentrating on the right areas. There are alternative methods of going around things, increased numbers of invigilators being one. If it's become that big an issue then the university should budget for more invigilators, if it's not being treated as that big of an issue, don't expect the students to take it seriously either.
I'm a student and I don't like being tarred with the same brush as those who cheat. I've never cheated in an exam, although often had cause to do so, but it's never come to that, nor will it. Not willing to risk the ramifications of getting caught. Increase the punishment and cheaters will dwindle.

Precious flower · 10-05-2014 12:11PM

Jester252 wrote: »

People can wear jackets they just can't take them off.

I was told by one supervisor to take my jacket off that they weren't allowed at all in the exam hall and to find somewhere else to put it. Another guy came in with a hoodie and was told by another supervisor that he either had to take it off and find somewhere to put it, or leave it on. They could have searched my jacket if they wanted before I went in. I mean surely they should allow you to bring in a jacket.

freyners · 10-05-2014 12:49PM

This wouldnt have been half the problem if they had communicated it earlier and made a bigger deal of it. One email (amongst three they sent out that day IIRC) doesnt cut it, especially a week before exams. UL have only themselves to blame for the cluster**** this rule change has been since most students were unaware of the changes.

Also the rules on jackets is beyond stupid, It really doesnt matter if your jacket is lying on the back of your chair or your wearing it. I'm not going to magically spring notes out of it once its lying on my chair that I wasnt able to access if it was on me.

LilRedDorcha · 10-05-2014 01:36PM

freyners wrote: »

This wouldnt have been half the problem if they had communicated it earlier and made a bigger deal of it. One email (amongst three they sent out that day IIRC) doesnt cut it, especially a week before exams. UL have only themselves to blame for the cluster**** this rule change has been since most students were unaware of the changes.

Also the rules on jackets is beyond stupid, It really doesnt matter if your jacket is lying on the back of your chair or your wearing it. I'm not going to magically spring notes out of it once its lying on my chair that I wasnt able to access if it was on me.

The jacket thing really bugs me. I'm meant to walk 40 minutes in this weather without a coat? I mean, I know they said we can put them in SU but are we seriously meant to walk from there to PESS or other buildings that are far away? I wouldn't even mind them checking my pockets if it meant I didn't have to risk getting sick from this.

I understand the bag thing since they want to cut down on the amount of theft, but not being allowed a jacket is just too far, in my opinion.

Jester252 · 10-05-2014 01:57PM

Chris Martin wrote: »

Then don't, they have to make a decision before they go into the hall whether to wear it or not. I got another impression from an earlier post.

Did you not read my post? That's what I said

Into the hall itself? No.
Outside the hall, yes, and that still goes on, but I leave all academic equipment behind me when I go through those doors and sit down, bar my writing accouterments.

If that is the case than why are the new rules an issue for you?

One step at a time, this one's for phones.
It's the invigilators job to make sure people aren't cheating and a vigilant invigilator would catch someone shifting nervously and glancing around or glancing at their knee. I've never had the need to in a test I've done so far, maybe glance around but when someone starts looking down it should set off alarm bells.

They are doing their job hence the new rules

I'm aware as to why the new measures were brought in, I just believe some parts of them are extreme and they're not concentrating on the right areas. There are alternative methods of going around things, increased numbers of invigilators being one. If it's become that big an issue then the university should budget for more invigilators, if it's not being treated as that big of an issue, don't expect the students to take it seriously either.
I'm a student and I don't like being tarred with the same brush as those who cheat. I've never cheated in an exam, although often had cause to do so, but it's never come to that, nor will it. Not willing to risk the ramifications of getting caught. Increase the punishment and cheaters will dwindle.

You can only blame the cheater for been "tarred", who could be any student.

freyners · 10-05-2014 01:59PM

LilRedDorcha wrote: »

The jacket thing really bugs me. I'm meant to walk 40 minutes in this weather without a coat? I mean, I know they said we can put them in SU but are we seriously meant to walk from there to PESS or other buildings that are far away? I wouldn't even mind them checking my pockets if it meant I didn't have to risk getting sick from this.

I understand the bag thing since they want to cut down on the amount of theft, but not being allowed a jacket is just too far, in my opinion.

Students fault on theft, not uls job to police it. If someone is going to leaving your bag in an unsupervised area for 2 hours I've no sympathy if their stuff goes walking. UL should just have washed their hands of the liability with a disclaimer, not this ridiculousness imo

Jackets, its all well and good to say check the pockets, but you can hide it in unusual places (someone hide notes in their zip up hood in another college). My point is that this could happen with any layer of clothing. wnolan was joking earlier but unless your going to ban all clothing in an exam hall its a risk. Arbitrarily deciding what you can or cant wear is beyond stupid. Unfortunately UL display about as much forward planning for these matters as your below average goldfish, leading to all these types of decisions resulting in a cluster****

Official bitch about daily life in UL

Comments