Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod Warning post #2237

bucketybuck · 11-04-2014 02:36PM

Pighead wrote: »

There have been plenty of indications that Utd are confident on finally addressing the long standing midfield problems that have plagued the club for years.

We all had hoped that United had been busy behind closed doors sorting some transfer deals for the summer. Thats what they need to have done, because if they haven't then we are looking at another mess of a summer, the world cup alone will ensure that.

But fact is, if United had their transfer targets already lined up, spoken to and fees agreed, then they would not be briefing the press about the difficulty of getting top class players. It wouldn't even be a topic of conversation, so its worrying to even hear these types of rumours.

They need to have the deals agreed now, ready to sign early in the window. There can be no argument about this. If the summer drags on and they are still only scouting players or waiting weeks to hear back from another unattainable player then it will be whole new levels of incompetence.

RichFTW · 11-04-2014 02:37PM

I can't understand all the love for Nani in here. Yes he is quality and exactly what united need out wide when on form but his form consists of 7 or 8 games a season.

He's had plenty of chances to prove himself over the years and all he does is repeat the same cycle:

- play great for a few games
- let all the hype get to his head
- start thinking he is Ronaldo and doesn't need to put any effort in any more
- get dropped
- develop a chip on his shoulder for being dropped
- play himself back into the team to prove everyone wrong
- repeat

Someone said Fergie thought he had a good attitude? All I see is selfishness and arrogance from someone who is wasting their talent. Time for him to move on with the rest of the clear out.

Pighead · 11-04-2014 02:40PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It was the same talk last summer too....

I know that. It would be beyond ridiculous if that was allowed happen again. I am pretty sure that the bigwigs of Utd are determined to rectify last seasons failings. The money seems to be there. This season has showed them if it was ever doubted that world class players need to be bought. It seems way way more likely that this summer will not be a repeat of last summer.

Are you predicting that Utd won't spend a significant amount of money this summer?

markcahill1985 · 11-04-2014 02:40PM

Oregano_State wrote: »

I think RVP has to go.

Genuinley astonished that people think this, the guy is one of the best strikers in the world, sure he needs to be managed but thats Moyes job. I for one would have picked him a hundred times out of a hundred the other night instead of Rooney had both been fit.

Maximus Alexander · 11-04-2014 02:44PM

The meltdown in here would be so big if United didn't shop well this summer that they'd have to build one of these over the whole of Ireland:

The_Kew_Tour · 11-04-2014 02:44PM

Pighead wrote: »

What 'vibes'? You seem to be embracing all the negative talk and ignoring the positives. There have been plenty of indications that Utd are confident on finally addressing the long standing midfield problems that have plagued the club for years.

What positives?

Seriously where are these positives?

Vibes you ask. Its went from "we have players lined up" to the "Its going to be tough to get players on WC year"

go figure.

Pighead · 11-04-2014 02:45PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

We all had hoped that United had been busy behind closed doors sorting some transfer deals for the summer. Thats what they need to have done, because if they haven't then we are looking at another mess of a summer, the world cup alone will ensure that.

But fact is, if United had their transfer targets already lined up, spoken to and fees agreed, then they would not be briefing the press about the difficulty of getting top class players. It wouldn't even be a topic of conversation, so its worrying to even hear these types of rumours.

They need to have the deals agreed now, ready to sign early in the window. There can be no argument about this. If the summer drags on and they are still only scouting players or waiting weeks to hear back from another unattainable player then it will whole new levels of incompetence.

Where has this 'briefing the press about the difficulty of getting top class players' line come from? If it's the Jamie Jackson quote from earlier that seems to be his opinion so all we have heard this week from official sources are Moyes quotes saying:
"We're looking to spend the right money on players who are available and it's not anything to do with Champions League.
"Any players we've quietly discussed it with are more than happy to join Manchester United. They know it's not a long-term thing."

xtal191 · 11-04-2014 02:46PM

I fear the worst if we dont have players signed before the World Cup. Especially with all these "top players" Moyes keeps banging on about that are dying to join Utd.

Pighead · 11-04-2014 02:49PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What positives?

Seriously where are these positives?

Vibes you ask. Its went from "we have players lined up" to the "Its going to be tough to get players on WC year"

go figure.

Again who has said this?

markcahill1985 · 11-04-2014 02:49PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

What positives?

Seriously where are these positives?

Vibes you ask. Its went from "we have players lined up" to the "Its going to be tough to get players on WC year"

go figure.

Its the same most years, last year we heard Fergie and Phelan say everything was in place for a huge signing, then Moyes comes in and says that we will only be after the best players in the world. We put in pathetic bids for the likes of Khedeira, Fabregas and muck about decent players like Herrera etc by making bids that were never going to be accepted. Will be the same this year. Carvalho has been scouted around 15 times and has a 38m release clause, I for one can see us bidding 15-20 million and refusing to pay the clause a la Herrera. We are going to be linked with evryone who has a half decent game in the world cup. Going to be painful.

The_Kew_Tour · 11-04-2014 02:52PM

Pighead wrote: »

Again who has said this?

Post #183

So what are these positives?

11-04-2014 02:52PM

Pro. F wrote: »

When you play counter attacking football and let the opposition dominate the possession your wide midfielder has to get back close to your full-back to defend. Your wide midfielder always has to double up with his full-back in that situation. It doesn't matter how good your full-back is at defending, he's still not going be able to defend without his wide man doubling up with him.

I disagree that Kagawa was effective enough when we had possession.

In the 3 of a 4231, when you are defending, there is one player central and two wide (it's nearly always indistinguishable from a 442 when defending). So one of Mata or Kagawa would have to defend wide and play from there when possession was regained. They can drift in when the team have possession if you want, all three players can swap around positions during the game if you want, but two of those three have to get back to help our full-backs every time the team are defending. That is what I am talking about. Kagawa and Mata are not suited to the running up and down the pitch every time possession changes hands.

That's where the new midfielder comes into play, and consider another 2 DM midfielders behind them.

bucketybuck · 11-04-2014 02:53PM

Pighead wrote: »

Are you predicting that Utd won't spend a significant amount of money this summer?

Spending significant amounts of money is the easy part, Moyes has already spent a significant amount of money.

Elro · 11-04-2014 02:54PM

Pighead wrote: »

Again who has said this?

No one said it it's just the way it is, players don't want the distraction of dealing with a transfer in the weeks before the world cup and clubs will want more money for their player if they perform well during the tournament.

It just makes it more difficult and gives clubs less time to sign players than the other years.

11-04-2014 02:58PM

MagicIRL wrote: »

It's criminal the amount of money footballers (especially those underperforming) make. I would love to know what Athletico are paying some of their players, for example.

They can afford to under-perform 'so to speak', some are just passengers getting paid. It's just plain wrong.

Pighead · 11-04-2014 03:00PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Post #183

So what are these positives?

See post #187 for full quote. Nobody from Manchester Utd Football Club is quoted as saying 'It's going to be tough to get players in WC year'. Positives are: 1/ Money is definitely there. 2/ Last year there was a flimsy argument that could have been used by the top brass that 'but we are champions, maybe the midfield isn't as bad as people say. This year there can be no dispute. 3/ Moyes has said that they have spoken to players already and they have received positive feedback.

Man Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world and they are in a bad place. There is no way the powers that be aren't gonna try and fix it this summer. No way.

The_Kew_Tour · 11-04-2014 03:07PM

Pighead wrote: »

See post #187 for full quote. Nobody from Manchester Utd Football Club is quoted as saying 'It's going to be tough to get players in WC year'. Positives are: 1/ Money is definitely there. 2/ Last year there was a flimsy argument that could have been used by the top brass that 'but we are champions, maybe the midfield isn't as bad as people say. This year there can be no dispute. 3/ Moyes has said that they have spoken to players already and they have received positive feedback.

Man Utd are one of the biggest clubs in the world and they are in a bad place. There is no way the powers that be aren't gonna try and fix it this summer. No way.

I hope you're right.

I won't be confident till I at least see a big name or 2.

I hope Moyes and Woodward know what they are doing.

I think its very important to have players bought before the season starts. Moyes will need decent start and they need all the help they can get.

People saw the stupidity in signing player on deadline day, now we need to learn from that.

Pighead · 11-04-2014 03:11PM

Elro wrote: »

No one said it it's just the way it is, players don't want the distraction of dealing with a transfer in the weeks before the world cup and clubs will want more money for their player if they perform well during the tournament.

It just makes it more difficult and gives clubs less time to sign players than the other years.

What a load of nonsense. Are you seriously saying players would say 'nah I don't really feel like tripling my wages at the moment as I am fully concentrating on the forthcoming World Cup'.

Some big transfers from summer 2010:
Kolarov -Lazio to Man City 20m
Ramires -Benfica to Chelsea 22m
David Silva -Valencia to Man City 30m
Gourcuff -Bordeaux to Lyon 20m
Ozil -Werder Bremen to Real Madrid 15m
Balotelli -Inter to Man City 30m
Robinho -Man City to Milan 18m
Yaya -Toure Barca to Man City 30m
Ibrahimovic -Barca to Milan 30m
Mascherano -Liverpool to Barca 21m
Villa -Valencia to Barca 40m

Of course big deals can be done in a world cup year.

Maximus Alexander · 11-04-2014 03:14PM

Elro wrote: »

No one said it it's just the way it is, players don't want the distraction of dealing with a transfer in the weeks before the world cup and clubs will want more money for their player if they perform well during the tournament.

It just makes it more difficult and gives clubs less time to sign players than the other years.

To be honest, this doesn't seem to have any basis in reality.

Year|Transfer Spend|Arrivals
97/98|206.125.920 £|303
98/99|321.533.520 £|294
99/00|284.039.360 £|312
00/01|399.879.920 £|331
01/02 |505.450.000 £|331
02/03|294.646.000 £|351
03/04 |376.565.200 £|489
04/05|440.761.200 £|455
05/06|441.102.640 £|478
06/07|486.112.000 £|522
07/08|822.978.640 £|544
08/09 |750.117.280 £|536
09/10 |522.449.400 £|543
10/11|620.466.000 £|593
11/12 |563.565.200 £|618
12/13|681.670.000 £|585
13/14|805.657.600 £|576

Premier League transfers in (1997-2014)
World Cup years in bold

UnitedIrishman · 11-04-2014 03:27PM

The World Cup signing thing is a lazy theory. Its not like the player has to be there for every stage of negotiations or even speak to the club. His agent would just deal with everything and keep the player in the loop over the course of the summer or WC.

Elro · 11-04-2014 03:29PM

Pighead wrote: »

Of course big deals can be done in a world cup year.

I never said it was impossible just harder, although City seem to have finished most of their signings during the World Cup which surprises me a lot.

Also on a side note i'd hope we're not planning on taking the City route of doubling or tripling many players wages to get them to sign for us as I believe that'd be a bad road to start down.

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

To be honest, this doesn't seem to have any basis in reality.

I'm not really sure what your aiming to prove with that table other than clubs do spend money and buy players in world cup years.

djPSB · 11-04-2014 03:29PM

Pighead wrote: »

What a load of nonsense. Are you seriously saying players would say 'nah I don't really feel like tripling my wages at the moment as I am fully concentrating on the forthcoming World Cup'.

Some big transfers from summer 2010:
Kolarov -Lazio to Man City 20m
Ramires -Benfica to Chelsea 22m
David Silva -Valencia to Man City 30m
Gourcuff -Bordeaux to Lyon 20m
Ozil -Werder Bremen to Real Madrid 15m
Balotelli -Inter to Man City 30m
Robinho -Man City to Milan 18m
Yaya -Toure Barca to Man City 30m
Ibrahimovic -Barca to Milan 30m
Mascherano -Liverpool to Barca 21m
Villa -Valencia to Barca 40m

Of course big deals can be done in a world cup year.

Most of them players went to teams that were in the CL though.

Delboy5 · 11-04-2014 03:31PM

I think the world cup issue is more to do with timing, a potential player may impress during the world cup and hence his value will increase leading to protracted negotiations dragging on into August and possibly towards the end of the transfer window........nobody wants to see another August 31st like last years!!!!!

Maximus Alexander · 11-04-2014 03:33PM

Elro wrote: »

I'm not really sure what your aiming to prove with that table other than clubs do spend money and buy players in world cup years.

The table doesn't indicate any correlation between the amount of money spent or number of players arriving and whether or not it is a World Cup year.

So, where is the evidence that it's "more difficult" to sign players in a World Cup year? Or, indeed, why does it matter what level of difficulty is involved if they end up signing anyway?

bullvine · 11-04-2014 03:36PM

djPSB wrote: »

Most of them players went to teams that were in the CL though.

City??

Pighead · 11-04-2014 03:37PM

djPSB wrote: »

Most of them players went to teams that were in the CL though.

None of the Man City signings were put off by lack of Champs League. I'm guessing they realised that it was only a matter of time before Champions League football arrived. I honestly think big wages would be enough of a compensation for most players to miss a season of Champions League.

bmcc10 · 11-04-2014 03:43PM

Pighead wrote: »

What a load of nonsense. Are you seriously saying players would say 'nah I don't really feel like tripling my wages at the moment as I am fully concentrating on the forthcoming World Cup'.

Some big transfers from summer 2010:
Kolarov -Lazio to Man City 20m
Ramires -Benfica to Chelsea 22m
David Silva -Valencia to Man City 30m
Gourcuff -Bordeaux to Lyon 20m
Ozil -Werder Bremen to Real Madrid 15m
Balotelli -Inter to Man City 30m
Robinho -Man City to Milan 18m
Yaya -Toure Barca to Man City 30m
Ibrahimovic -Barca to Milan 30m
Mascherano -Liverpool to Barca 21m
Villa -Valencia to Barca 40m

Of course big deals can be done in a world cup year.

In fairness most of those players where joining better teams for big money with everyone knowing what every player could do, More a point if say Kroos or Carvalho both had stormers of WC's that would make it harder for United to sign them.

bmcc10 · 11-04-2014 03:46PM

bullvine wrote: »

City??

Players they signed where hardly taking a step down now where they? We all knew what City where gonna become.

Elro · 11-04-2014 03:50PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The table doesn't indicate any correlation between the amount of money spent or number of players arriving and whether or not it is a World Cup year.

So, where is the evidence that it's "more difficult" to sign players in a World Cup year? Or, indeed, why does it matter what level of difficulty is involved if they end up signing anyway?

I would say '98 and '10 support my point while '02 and '06 don't. Either way I probably should have phrased my post differently.

keane2097 · 11-04-2014 03:55PM

bmcc10 wrote: »

Players they signed where hardly taking a step down now where they? We all knew what City where gonna become.

I think you could quite easily argue that Lazio, Valencia and Barcelona were all a step above City at the time, City having achieved nothing in the modern era at the time.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod Warning post #2237

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