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Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

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Comments

  • #5342
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Getting back to reality . . . .

    I don't like the sound of all that deep silt on the ocean floor, which will only compound the search for MH370 debris and the black boxes.


  • #5343
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,100 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I just don't understand the mechanics of how silt would behave at that depth though. It would be under enormous pressure. been trying to imagine it but nope - can't comprehend silt behaving in a 'silty' manner at 4km depth. thinking aloud I guess its the relative mass and density of the wreckage compared to the silt that would count.

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  • #5344
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    fits wrote: »
    I just don't understand the mechanics of how silt would behave at that depth though. It would be under enormous pressure. been trying to imagine it but nope - can't comprehend silt behaving in a 'silty' manner at 4km depth. thinking aloud I guess its the relative mass and density of the wreckage compared to the silt that would count.

    I'm no oceanographer, but presumably there are currents at those depths too? Or is the ocean still at those depths?


  • #5345
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    lord lucan wrote: »
    This is the best advice you will get. If you think someone is trolling then ignore them and they'll get bored and move on somewhere else. If they're really bothering you then stick them on ignore and you don't have to see their posts.
    sopretty wrote: »
    The passengers being used as an excuse for something more sinister. But you all buy that. It's harsh of me to suggest that the world's largest military forces being suddenly employed in a unified manner to find these 239 people is somewhat unbelievable. My a**e.

    Delude yourselves that it's a global search for the black box if that's what reinforces the importance of your industry to you all. Aviation errors are so so important that multimillions, nay billions, are put into searching for a black box.

    Then, take off the blinkers and the ear muffs and smell the coffee.

    I have gone with the ignore option after this post.


  • #5346
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Are you dudes aware of what bullying is? It's persistent ridicule, isolation and insulting of a poster.
    If you wish to pick apart my post, pick it apart. Don't pretend to take some sort of 'moral high ground' by announcing to all and sundry that you have me on your ignore list.
    I'm sure the thanks will be flying in to your post. Well done. Congratulations.
    You cannot argue your point, so you attempt to ridicule me to make up for your lack of an argument.


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  • #5347
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    We can check with eatmyshorts if the 777 uses IATA or ICAO.
    .
    IATA codes aren't used in Nav databases at all. The only time we see an airfield referred to in IATA codes is at the top of the Flight Plan and on my roster.


  • #5348
    andy_g
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,561 ✭✭✭andy_g


    Last warning thread will be closed if you keep on the path of off topicness if you want take it to pm.

    Not here on the forum.


  • #5349
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    I heard a very thought provoking 'depth' analogy today re the ongoing search.

    Think of standing on the top of the tallest mountain in the world (in the dark), then looking over the edge for a missing suitcase somewhere at the bottom of the mountain . . . . . .


  • #5350
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Thing is, all the analogies in the world still don't seem to deal with the scale of the problem because from what I can see, most people can't relate to the idea of the aeroplane itself being small because when they stand next to it, it's orders of magnitude bigger than themselves.

    The WaPo depth graphic, in that respect, was one of the best infographics I have seen for a long while depicting something like that.


  • #5351
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Think of standing on the top of the tallest mountain in the world (in the dark), then looking over the edge for a missing suitcase somewhere at the bottom of the mountain . . . . . .

    But the missing suitcase has sent out a signal telling you where it is....


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  • #5352
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    mickmackey1 wrote: »
    But the missing suitcase has sent out a signal telling you where it is....

    Plus, you have submarines which can scan the entire mountain and pick up the image of said suit-case. It's not like you're completely blind at the top of the mountain trying to spot a suitcase 4 km down.

    Nonsense analogy.


  • #5353
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    mickmackey1 wrote: »
    But the missing suitcase has sent out a signal telling you where it is....

    Except it isn't. It's just sending it an acoustic signature. It's up to you to work out were it is by listening in different positions and triangulating.


  • #5354
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    eatmyshorts wrote: »
    Except it isn't. It's just sending it an acoustic signature. It's up to you to work out were it is by listening in different positions and triangulating.

    I'm sure they have experts adept at such positioning identification.


  • #5355
    jaykay74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,608 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    sopretty wrote: »
    I'm sure they have experts adept at such positioning identification.

    thats what he said :confused:


  • #5356
    Jack1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    People need to remember the qoute from above, It's just sending it an acoustic signature. - The speculation as to why subs can't find it, a max sub depth if I'm not mistaken is -1,600ft, if MH370 is where it is believed to be, it is most likely at -15,000ft - Far from nonsense it shows how little innovation in depth searching the world has invested in, our only hope is that Alvin can reach it, because its max dive is -14,763ft, it's also rumoured the depth could surpass -15,000ft where MH370 is possibly located as there has never been much detail regards the layout of the Ocean in this area.

    Unprecedented is the key word in all of this.


  • #5357
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    People need to remember the qoute from above, It's just sending it an acoustic signature. - The speculation as to why subs can't find it, a max sub depth if I'm not mistaken is -1,600ft, if MH370 is where it is believed to be, it is most likely at -15,000ft - Far from nonsense it shows how little innovation in depth searching the world has invested in, our only hope is that Alvin can reach it, because its max dive is -14,763ft, it's also rumoured the depth could surpass -15,000ft where MH370 is possibly located as there has never been much detail regards the layout of the Ocean in this area.

    Unprecedented is the key word in all of this.

    Well said. Some people just seem to have an inability to fathom the scale of the operation.


  • #5358
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    jaykay74 wrote: »
    thats what he said :confused:

    Eh....... no it's not. I got the implication from his post that some sort of layperson (the fella on top of the mountain, looking for the suitcase), has to figure out the triangulation for themselves.

    The fact is, they have heard the signal, they have by now triangulated I am sure, so they pretty much know where this signal is. It's literally a case of accessing the position imo.


  • #5359
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    People need to remember the qoute from above, It's just sending it an acoustic signature. - The speculation as to why subs can't find it, a max sub depth if I'm not mistaken is -1,600ft, if MH370 is where it is believed to be, it is most likely at -15,000ft - Far from nonsense it shows how little innovation in depth searching the world has invested in, our only hope is that Alvin can reach it, because its max dive is -14,763ft, it's also rumoured the depth could surpass -15,000ft where MH370 is possibly located as there has never been much detail regards the layout of the Ocean in this area.

    Unprecedented is the key word in all of this.

    On that subject, Alvin has just passed seatrials following a refit - details here: http://www.whoi.edu/news-release/alvin-svc

    On a vaguely related note, Woods Hole Oceanographic Inst did an interesting FAQ on MH370 a week or two ago: http://www.whoi.edu/main/faq-malaysia-airlines-flight-370 which I meant to post at the time but forgot as I got the message highlighting it at some point where I was AFK. It may be a little out of date but is worth a look given WHOI's record in general.


  • #5360
    jaykay74
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,608 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    sopretty wrote: »
    Eh....... no it's not. I got the implication from his post that some sort of layperson (the fella on top of the mountain, looking for the suitcase), has to figure out the triangulation for themselves.

    what :confused:

    That honestly doesn't make any sense.


  • #5361
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    jaykay74 wrote: »
    what :confused:

    That honestly doesn't make any sense.

    Ok.


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  • #5362
    lord lucan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    sopretty wrote: »
    Are you dudes aware of what bullying is? It's persistent ridicule, isolation and insulting of a poster.
    If you wish to pick apart my post, pick it apart. Don't pretend to take some sort of 'moral high ground' by announcing to all and sundry that you have me on your ignore list.
    I'm sure the thanks will be flying in to your post. Well done. Congratulations.
    You cannot argue your point, so you attempt to ridicule me to make up for your lack of an argument.

    Less of the grandstanding, you're not a victim or being bullied.


  • #5363
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    lord lucan wrote: »
    Less of the grandstanding, you're not a victim or being bullied.

    I thought these things should be discussed via pm?


  • #5364
    lord lucan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,576 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    sopretty wrote: »
    I thought these things should be discussed via pm?

    You're the one dragging the thread off topic with talk of insults and bullying. Any more will result in a week off from A&A.


  • #5365
    Jack1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Has anyone also noticed the political circus the Aussie PM, idiot Abbott as he is known has turned this into. Lampooning MH370 to try recover his own standing in polls - I suppose what should one expect from politicians..

    Thanks to Calina for that link, it does now seem the retrofit Alvin has had done will give some further hope to recovery. I would be grateful if the forum could now focus on three things,

    Fact
    Informed Speculation
    Informed Discussion


  • #5366
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Has anyone also noticed the political circus the Aussie PM, idiot Abbott as he is known has turned this into. Lampooning MH370 to try recover his own standing in polls - I suppose what should one expect from politicians..

    I tried to argue the point that this was a political endeavour yesterday. So, yes, I agree with you.


  • #5367
    Jack1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    I tried to argue the point that this was a political endeavour yesterday. So, yes, I agree with you.

    Yes but I'm far from going down the road of political conspiracy which you seemed to be alluding to yesterday r.e. worlds forces in the search. Simply I am pissed of by a PM turning it into a political football.


  • #5368
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8828684/mh370-black-box-may-have-been-found

    "Black boxes of MH370 may have been found," he (Geoffrey Thomas) wrote on Twitter.

    "PM to make announcement at 11.45am (WST)."

    edit : just noticed the times, not very good at that... Is the Tony Abbott conference the one past ? The one where he said they are "confident" ?


    Dammit :mad:

    Surely made a big fuss of nothing.


  • #5369
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Thanks to Calina for that link, it does now seem the retrofit Alvin has had done will give some further hope to recovery.

    You're welcome.

    I love Alvin. Ballard's book on finding the Titanic was the most expensive book I owned as a teenager and I found it fascinating.

    Regardling Abbot, I think his first announcement to the Australian Parliament may have been ill advised but would also note that AMSA have picked up a few lone sailors in their time and they have shown themselves to be good at hard rescue problems. My view is the search will be ongoing regardless of how people try to exploit it to obtain political or social capital out of it.

    With respect to news that the boxes "may have been found", I'm really less interested in reports which include qualifiers like "may" and "possibly". I'd prefer the big announcements were reserved for "have been found" and let the lower level press liaison include things like "we believe it is possible that this signal may emanate from the black box but this is still to be confirmed for certain".

    My hope, incidentally, is that if and when they do locate the black boxes, they also do locate some of the wreckage.


  • #5370
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Jack1985 wrote: »
    Yes but I'm far from going down the road of political conspiracy which you seemed to be alluding to yesterday r.e. worlds forces in the search. Simply I am pissed of by a PM turning it into a political football.

    I was not going down the route of political conspiracy being involved in the loss of the plane. Rather that I found it quite novel and unbelievable that the political forces involved, were happy to collaborate in this search.


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  • #5371
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8828684/mh370-black-box-may-have-been-found

    "Black boxes of MH370 may have been found," he (Geoffrey Thomas) wrote on Twitter.

    "PM to make announcement at 11.45am (WST)."

    edit : just noticed the times, not very good at that... Is the Tony Abbott conference the one past ? The one where he said they are "confident" ?


    Dammit :mad:

    Surely made a big fuss of nothing.

    http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000109150&story_title=searchers-confident-of-position-of-mh370-s-black-boxes

    Material quote:
    We are confident that we know the position of the black box flight recorder to within some kilometers (miles)," Abbott said in a speech in the Chinese commercial capital Shanghai.

    Step by step improvements.


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