nepotism in state broadcaster..

STB · 27-03-2014 12:16AM

For Reals wrote: »

I don't see many saying a kid fresh out the gate should be given a slot on the state broadcaster. If you like Radio, is it not preferable to take talent over family? Imagine the quality improvement if people were hired on merit. Off course foot in the door, who you know, will always play a part, but can that not be in the form of, 'Hire that guy/girl, I worked with him/her in community radio he/she's very good', or 'This guy/girl did some excellent work while at college lets get him/her in as a contributor'?
We may have less pirate stations but we have numerous media courses and you can pick up mixing equipment anywhere. So the days of not knowing one end of a mixing desk from another unless you've family in RTE are also long gone.

This thread and several similar themed posts have been saying excatly that.

I would have to disagree with your statement above. That is not the way radio works. Radio is a talent based enterntainment industry. There are plenty who actually work in the industry and have taken years to make the breakthrough from smaller ILRs to fulltime gigs/multicity/national broadcasters. For the large part this has been a natural progression through hard graft. These people have improved their skills and been noticed.

Media courses cannot make up for the real thing. The confidence that is gained from starting small and gathering experience from like mided people is sadly one of the more under estimated losses from the pirate era. It is nothing to do with learning how to use a mixing desk:)

My point is that plenty of people do media courses. Only a small percentage will ever work in the broadcast industry. There are plenty of talanted people who work in radio and TV that have never attended a media course!

There are also plenty of people who post here that work/ have worked in the industry and will have their own thoughts on this. My own view is that radio has dumbed down in recent years and I stand by my post about the quality of those allowed on air these days. The money being offered might explain this also though!

Yvonne23R · 27-03-2014 06:30PM

Yes and the rewards of radio work are often a lot less financially than people imagine. This could also explain why young family members of RTE stars might do a few years work there while they're finding their feet career-wise but not be dependent on the buttons they would be paid.

Evan DietrichSmith · 27-03-2014 07:03PM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

Yes and the rewards of radio work are often a lot less financially than people imagine. This could also explain why young family members of RTE stars might do a few years work there while they're finding their feet career-wise but not be dependent on the buttons they would be paid.

Struggling to find out what exactly that post means.

Can you help?

Yvonne23R · 27-03-2014 11:28PM

Evan DietrichSmith wrote: »

Struggling to find out what exactly that post means.

Can you help?

It's that people (young people) who have family in the business know what it's like and they can fill short term slots that come up without expecting to get big money for them. Until they get a bit of experience and can get slotted in when something that needs experience comes up. Which doesn't happen much these days with the cut backs. That's all I meant.

A.J.Plumb · 30-03-2014 08:48AM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

It's that people (young people) who have family in the business know what it's like and they can fill short term slots that come up without expecting to get big money for them. Until they get a bit of experience and can get slotted in when something that needs experience comes up. Which doesn't happen much these days with the cut backs. That's all I meant.

Hmm ?

Are you saying that young people who have family in RTE should fill the short term slots because "they know what it is like "?

Interesting concept....one that in fairness seems to have been very much taken on board in Montrose radio.

Calina · 30-03-2014 08:54AM

No, I think she's pointing out that people don't get paid much at entry level and so only people who have adequate support already can get in.

In other words, if you're poor and don't have contacts, you're on a loser because you couldn't afford to live on what you get paid anyway.

It's the whole internship thing writ high again - people expected to work for near nothing in the hope that it will pay dividends in the future.

I don't support it of course; I think it's a bad model with certain exclusionary features. But as I don't work in the media, I'm open to the thought that she's wrong and that people do get paid a reasonable wage for work done.

A.J.Plumb · 30-03-2014 09:17AM

Still confused I'M afraid !

What do you mean by "and so only people who have adequate support already can get in. "

Get in where ?

The OP clearly wrote "it's that people (young people) who have family in the business know what it's like.

I'm not saying you are wrong...but to me that reads like she is saying that people already connected to RTE should fill those slots. ?

dib · 04-04-2014 08:00AM

http://www.rte.ie/about/en/working-with-rte/vacancies/

Few jobs here if you're interested in applying OP. Theyr'e in TV but with your attitude you're probably a shoe-in.

Yvonne23R · 04-04-2014 09:13AM

If you have family in the business you probably have done your work experience in RTE or had a summer job or something. And like doctor's sons you'd know what the work is really like. The long hours, the on call, the public appearances. It's not all bread and circuses, you see. There's nothing sinister in it. It's just how the world works.

heybaby · 04-04-2014 02:52PM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

If you have family in the business you probably have done your work experience in RTE or had a summer job or something. And like doctor's sons you'd know what the work is really like. The long hours, the on call, the public appearances. It's not all bread and circuses, you see. There's nothing sinister in it. It's just how the world works.

Doing work experience is merely an introduction to what a profession entails. As we all know just because there's a tradition of medical professionals in a family doesnt necessarily mean little Jimmy is going grow up to be a good doctor. Nepotism is also widespread in the gardai and politics with equally deleterious consequences, families Ahern, Cowen and Lenihen being prime examples. So yes unfortunately nepotism can be quite sinister.

Evan DietrichSmith · 04-04-2014 04:48PM

Very surprised to see that attitude some people have to nepotism which is rampant in Irish industry.

What happens is that firms,take Guinness in the old days for example.

You got a very incestuos workforce with somewhat restricted gene pool and the result was poor productivity and a lack of drive and ambition.
The main aim is to get in the door and become a 'lifer' after that.

Usually a bull goose will emerge from this and with family contacts can control a workforce to an extent which is sometimes not at all healthy.
Very dangerous to let a family 'dynasty' to get a huge foothold in anything, I don't need to point out the obvious examples.

So those who dismiss nepotism as something harmless and not worthy of inspection would do well to lift the veil of naievity from their eyes and wise up to reality.

You know who you are.

A.J.Plumb · 04-04-2014 07:55PM

Clean Headshot there Evan !

Agree with your analysis on Guinness...but on the other hand they are a private company and can hire whole families if they have a mind to.

Any adverse consequences only hurt the company in the main.

RTE though is a public service broadcasting company which should have no truck with providing nice little sinecures for families of the inner circle.

And should cease providing post retirement roles for the likes of Byrne ,Gogan,Bowman,Balfe et all.

The wooses in management need to stand up to the so called "stars" and unwind the obscene and unwarranted pay packages that they are trousering for the past number of years.

end of the road · 04-04-2014 08:49PM

A.J.Plumb wrote: »

providing post retirement roles for the likes of Byrne ,Gogan,Bowman,Balfe et all.

are they? and here was i thinking that as a public service their job is to cater to all audiences including older audiences, radio 1 and lyric for example are targeted at older audiences all though i know some young people who like classical and other associated styles of music, i also like radio 1 the odd time and i'm a younger listener, 2fm isn't and never will be a youth station so going for the older audiences with broadcasters like larry gogan and so on is the way to go. but of course don't let your agest attitude get in the way of the actual facts that gogan, gaybo and so on bring in the audiences, end of story, don't listen if they bother you, simple as

A.J.Plumb wrote: »

The wooses in management need to stand up to the so called "stars" and unwind the obscene and unwarranted pay packages that they are trousering for the past number of years.

why would and should they? the stars are big names well respected and bring in the listeners, many have taken large pay cuts all ready, maybe they will agree to more who knows, RTE aren't going to risk losing some if they can, just because pat kenny going may not have caused a collapse in audiences as far as we know doesn't mean that won't happen if others left, you didn't get a gig chap, maybe time to pick another industry

Evan DietrichSmith · 04-04-2014 09:00PM

end of the road wrote: »

are they? and here was i thinking that as a public service their job is to cater to all audiences including older audiences, radio 1 and lyric for example are targeted at older audiences all though i know some young people who like classical and other associated styles of music, i also like radio 1 the odd time and i'm a younger listener, 2fm isn't and never will be a youth station so going for the older audiences with broadcasters like larry gogan and so on is the way to go. but of course don't let your agest attitude get in the way of the actual facts that gogan, gaybo and so on bring in the audiences, end of story, don't listen if they bother you, simple as

why would and should they? the stars are big names well respected and bring in the listeners, many have taken large pay cuts all ready, maybe they will agree to more who knows, RTE aren't going to risk losing some if they can, just because pat kenny going may not have caused a colapse in audiences as far as we know doesn't mean that won't happen if others left, you didn't get a gig chap, maybe time to pick another industry

What others had you in mind?

A.J.Plumb · 05-04-2014 07:34AM

but of course don't let your agest attitude get in the way of the actual facts that gogan, gaybo and so on bring in the audiences, end of story, don't listen if they bother you, simple as

I say again Buddy I am not ageist...I have no problem with people working in RTE up to normal retirement age....what I have said in many previous posts is that I object to RTE keeping on these people long after normal retiring age...to the detriment of younger broadcasting talent.

why would and should they? the stars are big names well respected and bring in the listeners, many have taken large pay cuts all ready, maybe they will agree to more who knows, RTE aren't going to risk losing some if they can, just because pat kenny going may not have caused a collapse in audiences as far as we know doesn't mean that won't happen if others left, you didn't get a gig chap, maybe time to pick another industry

The fact that they have taken large pay cuts and may take further cuts proves my point...they were and are grossly overpaid...RTE'S defence to those obscene salaries was that they wanted to keep their "Stars".

Now their biggest star - Kenny - has moved with scarcely a blip in the listnership figures so that argument is shown to be groundless.

Add to to that the blatent nepotism by giving the daughter of a well known presenter a prime week end slot and you have an organisation with a lot of questions to answer.

Yvonne23R · 05-04-2014 01:54PM

A.J.Plumb wrote: »

I say again Buddy I am not ageist...I have no problem with people working in RTE up to normal retirement age....what I have said in many previous posts is that I object to RTE keeping on these people long after normal retiring age...to the detriment of younger broadcasting talent.

The fact that they have taken large pay cuts and may take further cuts proves my point...they were and are grossly overpaid...RTE'S defence to those obscene salaries was that they wanted to keep their "Stars".

Now their biggest star - Kenny - has moved with scarcely a blip in the listnership figures so that argument is shown to be groundless.

Add to to that the blatent nepotism by giving the daughter of a well known presenter a prime week end slot and you have an organisation with a lot of questions to answer.

I suppose the answer to how RTE Radio One survived without Pat is that Sean O'Rourke was waiting in the wings. It was a very handy way to move on a generation and give up and coming talent a chance to flourish. The down side to this is that Sean is now not appearing on TV where he was carving up a good career and making a name for himself.

And then it fitted for getting Aine Lawlor up onto the One o'clock where she has made a great splash. What RTE has I suppose is talent in reserve that it can call on. But if you pay peanuts you will get monkeys. That's what I always say.

Evan DietrichSmith · 05-04-2014 02:05PM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

I suppose the answer to how RTE Radio One survived without Pat is that Sean O'Rourke was waiting in the wings. It was a very handy way to move on a generation and give up and coming talent a chance to flourish. The down side to this is that Sean is now not appearing on TV where he was carving up a good career and making a name for himself.

And then it fitted for getting Aine Lawlor up onto the One o'clock where she has made a great splash. What RTE has I suppose is talent in reserve that it can call on. But if you pay peanuts you will get monkeys. That's what I always say.

What I always say is if you pay over the commercial odds ,based on State subsidies,you get nepotism, lifers, and a bloated sense of entitlement not in line with commercial values.

end of the road · 05-04-2014 02:23PM

A.J.Plumb wrote: »

I say again Buddy I am not ageist...I have no problem with people working in RTE up to normal retirement age....

what difference does it make, they bring in the listeners, why should RTE let them go to bring in a younger unknown? RTE is a public broadcasting service who has to cater to everyone, that means having young and old broadcasters (which they do) . i've explained this, "normal" retirement age doesn't apply to RTE and rightly so, the police, fire services, and other emergency services need the retirement age as its unreasonable to expect older people to be running around after criminals or fighting fires at 60 and over.

A.J.Plumb wrote: »

what I have said in many previous posts is that I object to RTE keeping on these people long after normal retiring age...to the detriment of younger broadcasting talent.

but it isn't to the detriment of younger broadcasting talent at all, if their good enough they will get a chance simple as, thats the radio industry, RTE isn't a platform for young broadcasters, its a platform for all types, community and the youth regional radio stations are platforms for younger broadcasters who if they stand out may be hired by RTE, the radio industry is so small in ireland so not everyone is going to get a chance, thats life.

Yvonne23R · 06-04-2014 06:13PM

Evan DietrichSmith wrote: »

What I always say is if you pay over the commercial odds ,based on State subsidies,you get nepotism, lifers, and a bloated sense of entitlement not in line with commercial values.

I think this is the knub of the thing. You see the pirates and the rest are commercial but RTE isn't. It prides itself on being about quality instead of profit. There are upsides and some downs from this of course but the overall balance is on the upside. Think of all we've had from Wanderly Wagon, Dathi Lacha, Halls Pictorial, the GB Show and so on right up to Hector, the Late Show, Brendan O'Connor. It's because RTE is able to take a chance on difficult things that gives it it's special palce.

And some of that comes from having in place people with background. Like Michelle Mac Caughron who's father worked for many years long hours. Where they have seen it from the inside. Or Jimmy Magee and his daughter Eileen Dunne. Even Gay himself came in through his brother originally according to legends. If it's all done by open interviews you mightn't get the same committment.

foxtrot101 · 06-04-2014 07:04PM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

You see the pirates and the rest are commercial but RTE isn't. It prides itself on being about quality.

If that truely was the case, then Lottie Ryan wouldn't currently be presenting a radio programme on 2fm. I've listened to Lottie, she's dreadful. She has no aptitude for the job whatsoever. I've heard far more talented people presenting on college and hospital radio. The fact that she was handed a career, just because she was taken on by her late fathers very powerful agent, is a disgrace.

And some of that comes from having in place people with background. Like Michelle Mac Caughron who's father worked for many years long hours. Where they have seen it from the inside. Or Jimmy Magee and his daughter Eileen Dunne. Even Gay himself came in through his brother originally according to legends. If it's all done by open interviews you mightn't get the same committment.

This may come as a shock to you, but Ireland does actually have equality opportunity legislation in the workplace enacted. The Employment Equality Acts 1998 and 2004 have clearly defined nine areas of discrimination (gender, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race, travelling community). The fact that the national broadcaster is so clearly flaunting this legistration is just wrong.

Evan DietrichSmith · 06-04-2014 07:46PM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

I think this is the knub of the thing. You see the pirates and the rest are commercial but RTE isn't. It prides itself on being about quality instead of profit. There are upsides and some downs from this of course but the overall balance is on the upside. Think of all we've had from Wanderly Wagon, Dathi Lacha, Halls Pictorial, the GB Show and so on right up to Hector, the Late Show, Brendan O'Connor. It's because RTE is able to take a chance on difficult things that gives it it's special palce.

And some of that comes from having in place people with background. Like Michelle Mac Caughron who's father worked for many years long hours. Where they have seen it from the inside. Or Jimmy Magee and his daughter Eileen Dunne. Even Gay himself came in through his brother originally according to legends. If it's all done by open interviews you mightn't get the same committment.

Eileen Dunne might be a tad surprised to find she is Jimmy Magee's daughter.:rolleyes:

A.J.Plumb · 06-04-2014 09:05PM

Indeed she would Evan...she is the daughter of Mick Dunne who was a well known GAA commentator with the station.

And is ,it must be said, an excellent newscaster.

Yvonne23R · 06-04-2014 10:56PM

A.J.Plumb wrote: »

Indeed she would Evan...she is the daughter of Mick Dunne who was a well known GAA commentator with the station.

And is ,it must be said, an excellent newscaster.

Oh, I knew it was one of them.

It's probably indivious to be commenting on Lottie though because of the tragedy of Gerry who was such a great broadcaster in every way. Cut off in the prime of a great career. He could have gone anywhere. And Lottie will come into her own too given time. Settling in is hard to do in a demanding role like that.

It's very hard though to think of other cases where family members come as good as the original of the species. Sometimes broadcasting is dog-eat-dog of course. And people need a few advantages to get a leg up and over the career ladder hump. Otherwise nobody would get to the top.

A.J.Plumb · 07-04-2014 06:57AM

The issue I have with Lottie though is that she is given the opportunity to "settle in " on National radio.!

Surely she should come from a smaller station with a proven track record and with a particular broadcasting style.

RTE should have no need to recruit untried broadcasters..they should pick the most suitable from the many commercial and local stations out there.

But of course Lottie is "different"...any slots for Rex and Babette I wonder.?

Yvonne23R · 07-04-2014 08:19AM

Think of Anton Savage though whose working on one of the other stations. It's not just on the home station that people come good if they're good enough.

serfboard · 07-04-2014 08:32AM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

Think of Anton Savage though whose working on one of the other stations. It's not just on the home station that people come good if they're good enough are given a chance because of their connections.

FYP. Anton Savage? Whose Mammy and Daddy are very-well connected people in Irish media, and who's father in particular is chairman of the RTÉ board?

Yvonne23R · 07-04-2014 09:29AM

serfboard wrote: »

FYP. Anton Savage? Whose Mammy and Daddy are very-well connected people in Irish media, and who's father in particular is chairman of the RTÉ board?

I know! His father is in RTE (without pay I hear) but as a result he's had to make his way up the hard way by going to one of the less important private stations. Sometimes it's a handicap to have someone inside. Pull isn't what it was in this country since the tribunals and all that malarkey.

Radio5 · 07-04-2014 09:38AM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

I know! His father is in RTE (without pay I hear) but as a result he's had to make his way up the hard way by going to one of the less important private stations. Sometimes it's a handicap to have someone inside. Pull isn't what it was in this country since the tribunals and all that malarkey.

Seriously? Never heard of the Communcations Clinic?

Calina · 07-04-2014 09:38AM

Yvonne23R wrote: »

Pull isn't what it was in this country since the tribunals and all that malarkey.

Pull should not be a factor in any state organisation related jobs.

foxtrot101 · 07-04-2014 12:32PM

Radio5 wrote: »

Seriously?

No, I suspect Yvonne is not being serious at all. She's been on a wind-up since the start of the thread and in fairness to her - it has worked.

nepotism in state broadcaster..

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