Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Maximus Alexander · 24-03-2014 11:26AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Thought he has shown some good signs anytime he has played. Of course there will be some odd lapses, hes a 20 year old fullback in a new league, learning. And he wont learn without playing.

He's actually 25! :eek:

KH25 · 24-03-2014 11:27AM

I think Evra is just as likely to get caught as Butters. IMO Evra is more focused on attacking than he is in tracking back. Buttner is at least quick and has a better chance of getting back. Too many times has Evra been caught only to jog back.

If pure defence is what we want against Bayern, then Evans is our best bet I think. I just don't think there's that big of a gap between Evra and Buttner at the moment.

TheDoc · 24-03-2014 11:33AM

KH25 wrote: »

I think Evra is just as likely to get caught as Butters. IMO Evra is more focused on attacking than he is in tracking back. Buttner is at least quick and has a better chance of getting back. Too many times has Evra been caught only to jog back.

If pure defence is what we want against Bayern, then Evans is our best bet I think. I just don't think there's that big of a gap between Evra and Buttner at the moment.

Problem with Evra for me has been stamina. I don't think he even realises himself he cant do the up and down job for 90 minutes like he used to. You can visibly see him in an awful state around the 70 minute mark.

Olympiakos there was some noticable instances where he was jogging, absolutely struggling.

When you see a player jog, then burst a bit into a sprint, then jog again, that is the player in his mind shouting "go" but his body stopping short.

A full jog is lazyness, but when I see Evra and look at him more each game, I can see it's him jog-sprint-jog, which actually makes me think his legs might be giving way. And there is no shame in that, but you expect a proffesional to make it known to the manager or physios that he is struggling so he can be managed.

KH25 · 24-03-2014 11:40AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Problem with Evra for me has been stamina. I don't think he even realises himself he cant do the up and down job for 90 minutes like he used to. You can visibly see him in an awful state around the 70 minute mark.

Olympiakos there was some noticable instances where he was jogging, absolutely struggling.

When you see a player jog, then burst a bit into a sprint, then jog again, that is the player in his mind shouting "go" but his body stopping short.

A full jog is lazyness, but when I see Evra and look at him more each game, I can see it's him jog-sprint-jog, which actually makes me think his legs might be giving way. And there is no shame in that, but you expect a proffesional to make it known to the manager or physios that he is struggling so he can be managed.

I take your point, but then that raises more questions. It's obvious to us that Evra can't do it anymore, so why has it not been addressed? I seem to recall Rio or Fergie a few years ago saying that Rio had to adapt his game to sit back a bit further in order not to be caught out. Why hasn't Evra adapted his game like that? Or, assuming its not his choice, why did Fergie (and now Moyes) continue to just watch him get caught out at the back?

Ernest Oreo · 24-03-2014 11:52AM

IMO Buttner is likely to be destroyed by Citeh
if things turn out like this, then hes badly wounded going into the Bayern game.
The guy is depressing enough to look at already, watching him drag his feet out onto a CL tie would be even worse.

Evra cant run, so he shouldnt feature vrs Bayern home or away.
The question is how do you best lead buttner into those 2 fixtures.

bren2001 · 24-03-2014 11:55AM

From Ben Rumsby twitter:

Uefa orders partial closure of Bayern Munich stadium for Manchester United match following homophobic banner shown during Arsenal game.

I'll take every small advantage we can take. Hopefully it dampens the atmosphere that night.

Backstreet Moyes · 24-03-2014 11:57AM

Buttner's positioning is very very poor from what i have seen but he can be no worse than Evra at this stage. Give him a few games and we see if he is good enough to keep around.

bangkok · 24-03-2014 11:58AM

I have to laugh at all the "evra cant run" evras legs have gone comments...

he can clearly run forward and creates loads of chances, one of our fastest players on the attack, but its the mindset of "someone will cover me if I attack" hence why vidic gets pulled out of the middle a lot and we concede goals

Backstreet Moyes · 24-03-2014 11:58AM

Ernest Oreo wrote: »

IMO Buttner is likely to be destroyed by Citeh
if things turn out like this, then hes badly wounded going into the Bayern game.
The guy is depressing enough to look at already, watching him drag his feet out onto a CL tie would be even worse.

Evra cant run, so he shouldnt feature vrs Bayern home or away.
The question is how do you best lead buttner into those 2 fixtures.

What exactly does that mean depressing to look at. He bombs forward and attacks how is that depressing. His positioning is poor but he is exciting to watch.

tallaghtmick · 24-03-2014 12:00PM

bangkok wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the "evra cant run" evras legs have gone comments...

he can clearly run forward and creates loads of chances, one of our fastest players on the attack, but its the mindset of "someone will cover me if I attack" hence why vidic gets pulled out of the middle a lot and we concede goals

So he's a liability?

Backstreet Moyes · 24-03-2014 12:01PM

bangkok wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the "evra cant run" evras legs have gone comments...

he can clearly run forward and creates loads of chances, one of our fastest players on the attack, but its the mindset of "someone will cover me if I attack" hence why vidic gets pulled out of the middle a lot and we concede goals

He is the reason our backline is all over the place. He bombs forward and you can literally see him walking back when he loses the ball. Seeing him in interviews calling for the players to give more effort makes me sick. He is the biggest slacker i don't know how he is still first choice at the club. Watching him pick up the armband in Vidic's absence is sickening.

Backstreet Moyes · 24-03-2014 12:03PM

Has anybody been keeping an eye on Cardiff this season. I didn't see the game but looking at the lineups it seems Fabio was on the lw and Zaha didn't start. Has Zaha been getting regular games and have Daehli or Eikrem done much.

keeponhurling · 24-03-2014 12:03PM

Recall Fabio from his loan.
Then play Rafael left back and Fabio right back - with their jerseys swapped.

Bayern will think Fabio is left back so try to target that, but it will actually be Rafael they are dealing with.
That way Fabio will have less to deal with on the right hand side.

It's kinda one of the perks of having identical twins

bangkok · 24-03-2014 12:04PM

tallaghtmick wrote: »

So he's a liability?

yes he is, given united great service over the years and was one of the best left backs in the world, still good going forward but not good at defending anymore, will prob move on in the summer. Buttner not up to the job and will need serious tactical training if he is to play against Bayern

Lucas Hood · 24-03-2014 12:06PM

keeponhurling wrote: »

Recall Fabio from his loan.
Then play Rafael left back and Fabio right back - with their jerseys swapped.

Bayern will think Fabio is left back so try to target that, but it will actually be Rafael they are dealing with.
That way Fabio will have less to deal with on the right hand side.

It's kinda one of the perks of having identical twins

Fabio's transfer to Cardiff was a permanent one.

Irishcrx · 24-03-2014 12:06PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Heres the problem though, those strengths and weaknesses are the wrong way around for playing Bayern. We cannot afford to have him caught out of position or trying to play out of trouble in the wrong areas. Better to have somebody more solid defensively even if less effective attacking wise.

Can't disagree with that I'm afraid.

We do need to score against Bayern though, we will need at least one away goal to have any hope. If we can keep them out at Old Trafford by keeping it tight at the back , it might allow us to go for it away from home. I thin that's our only chance tbh.

Irishcrx · 24-03-2014 12:07PM

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Fabio's transfer to Cardiff was a permanent one.

Thank god for that , he's been rubbish since joining them as well.

Lucas Hood · 24-03-2014 12:07PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

Thank god for that , he's been rubbish since joining them as well.

No better or worse than any of their other defenders from what I've seen.

tallaghtmick · 24-03-2014 12:10PM

bangkok wrote: »

yes he is, given united great service over the years and was one of the best left backs in the world, still good going forward but not good at defending anymore, will prob move on in the summer. Buttner not up to the job and will need serious tactical training if he is to play against Bayern

Buttner has had feck all time to prove himself, he should have been given more game time this season.

bangkok · 24-03-2014 12:14PM

buttner against west brom I think at old Trafford this year just about sums him up.... the back 4 pushed a high line and there was buttner 10 yards behind the last defender....you wouldn't see it on a pub football team!!

keeponhurling · 24-03-2014 12:14PM

Jayzus, didn't know Fabio's move was a permanent one. Did they release the fee at all?

(i had to check the Zaha move as well, it's on loan it seems)

RasTa · 24-03-2014 12:19PM

Nice ball

keeponhurling · 24-03-2014 12:20PM

RasTa wrote: »

Nice ball

the Gooch would do well to hit a pass like that out of his hands

keane2097 · 24-03-2014 12:27PM

bangkok wrote: »

I have to laugh at all the "evra cant run" evras legs have gone comments...

he can clearly run forward and creates loads of chances, one of our fastest players on the attack, but its the mindset of "someone will cover me if I attack" hence why vidic gets pulled out of the middle a lot and we concede goals

The bit in bold sadly is incorrect. The rest of it is true, but one of the things I made most of my posts over the summer about in here is how terrible Evra is and has been for a long time at creating chances.

He turns up in the corner alright, but he never does anything useful.

keeponhurling wrote: »

the Gooch would do well to hit a pass like that out of his hands

The Gooch does that about six times a game.

Rubber_Soul · 24-03-2014 12:41PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Has anybody been keeping an eye on Cardiff this season. I didn't see the game but looking at the lineups it seems Fabio was on the lw and Zaha didn't start. Has Zaha been getting regular games and have Daehli or Eikrem done much.

Not been paying much attention to Daehli or Eikrem but Zaha hasn't been great. Had a lively debut but has since by all accounts replicated his u21 performances.

Kylo Ren · 24-03-2014 01:10PM

RasTa wrote: »

Nice ball

1. Put De Gea in CM
2. Buy a new goalie
3. ?????
4. Profit

tallaghtmick · 24-03-2014 01:27PM

bangkok wrote: »

buttner against west brom I think at old Trafford this year just about sums him up.... the back 4 pushed a high line and there was buttner 10 yards behind the last defender....you wouldn't see it on a pub football team!!

And the rest of the team too, if he gets more game time he will adapt to his team mates style of play and you would see less of that type mistake.

Timmyctc · 24-03-2014 01:31PM

tallaghtmick wrote: »

And the rest of the team too, if he gets more game time he will adapt to his team mates style of play and you would see less of that type mistake.

Evra and Buttner will never really be a viable option for LB though. Evra is great bombing down the wing then sauntering back at his own pace. Loses his man 9/10 times too.
Buttner is arguably better going forward and worse at defending. Dives in when not needed and is as bad at losing his man. Neither would really work in a back 4. Maybe a back 5 where the defending is spread amongst more players and the wing backs have an additional focus on attacking but, correct me if I'm wrong, not a single team plays 3/5 at the back in the PL. (and obviously it would be a huge change to the setup. Last thing we need is *More* "transition".)

tallaghtmick · 24-03-2014 01:38PM

Timmyctc wrote: »

Evra and Buttner will never really be a viable option for LB though. Evra is great bombing down the wing then sauntering back at his own pace. Loses his man 9/10 times too.
Buttner is arguably better going forward and worse at defending. Dives in when not needed and is as bad at losing his man. Neither would really work in a back 4. Maybe a back 5 where the defending is spread amongst more players and the wing backs have an additional focus on attacking but, correct me if I'm wrong, not a single team plays 3/5 at the back in the PL. (and obviously it would be a huge change to the setup. Last thing we need is *More* "transition".)

Ah yeh I agree with you on both Evra and Buttner but he gets some unfair criticism and hasn't had many chances to improve. Liverpool played 5-3-2 a few times this season but not as a main formation.

TheDoc · 24-03-2014 01:50PM

tallaghtmick wrote: »

And the rest of the team too, if he gets more game time he will adapt to his team mates style of play and you would see less of that type mistake.

What I was going to post albeit out at lunch.

That sort of mistake is a blatant case of not being on the same page as the rest of your defence, that comes with experience and playing alongside them.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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