Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

Jimmy Iovine · 19-03-2014 11:50PM

What about De Gea's double save?

We wouldn't have gone through if either of those had gone in. It would have killed all momentum.

He is a special player. The speed at which he got up after the first door to get down for the second was unreal.

The_Kew_Tour · 19-03-2014 11:52PM

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

What about De Gea's double save?

We wouldn't have gone through if either of those had gone in. It would have killed all momentum.

He is a special player. The speed at which he got up after the first door to get down for the second was unreal.

Glad you mentioned it. The saves themselves were nothing out of ordinary but was his speed to react to second attempt which was impressive.

We are lucky to have him.

Rayne Wooney · 19-03-2014 11:55PM

If we draw Barca, Bayern or Madrid. It'll be tough to say the least.

Rooney will probably have to go back out on the wing in a game against one of those, 3 CMs possibly Kagawa one of them as we'll really need someone to pick the right passes and relieve pressure when we get the ball, Welbeck on the other side and RVP up front on his own.

Fergie did it last year and it probably would have worked if not for the red card, the games against Barca show going anything like 442 is not going to end well.

spiralism · 19-03-2014 11:56PM

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

What about De Gea's double save?

We wouldn't have gone through if either of those had gone in. It would have killed all momentum.

He is a special player. The speed at which he got up after the first door to get down for the second was unreal.

Imo since he shook the criticism of his first season for basically not being as good as a 40 year old Van Der Sar from the off he's been routinely excellent. A fixture in the side for years to come hopefully and cant be too far off starting to get games for Spain. His instincts, improvisation (how often do you see him make an excellent split second reaction save with his feet?) and reaction speed even for a goalie are unbelievable.

Lord TSC · 19-03-2014 11:56PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

We were horrendous the last half hour. Shocking.

Too many Hoofs, not enough composure.

Up to that we were good alright. Was happy till then.

Ultimately, Moyes seems to do the bare minimum. Only attack when we have to, and as soon as we've done enough, just drop 10 men behind the ball. Blast it forward to see if we can nick something, but otherwise, defend, defend, defend. Small time mentality.

And that infuriates me. First half showed that when we want to push forward and attack, we can, and we can efficiently. Same as with the Sunderland game when we needed the goal to get to penalties; when we need to score, we can. The problem comes when we don't need to score, we show no desire to try and score.

Once the third goal went in, that was the end of the game, and luckily tonight, we were against a team who couldn't hit a barn at 5 feet. De Gea did great to make sure their one chance stayed out.

But if we are lucky enough to get to the stage where we have to hold on against Real or Bayern or Barca....God help us. Cause that negativity will backfire hugely.

Maximus Alexander · 19-03-2014 11:59PM

Can't actually believe that result. Shows how much my confidence in the team has been shaken, which gives me an insight into how the squad must feel...

J. Marston · 20-03-2014 12:08AM

This is nothing for joy that manchester has given me . Esto no es nada para la alegría que me ha dado manchester.

Ouch.

2moreMinutes · 20-03-2014 12:09AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Ultimately, Moyes seems to do the bare minimum. Only attack when we have to, and as soon as we've done enough, just drop 10 men behind the ball. Blast it forward to see if we can nick something, but otherwise, defend, defend, defend. Small time mentality.

And that infuriates me. First half showed that when we want to push forward and attack, we can, and we can efficiently. Same as with the Sunderland game when we needed the goal to get to penalties; when we need to score, we can. The problem comes when we don't need to score, we show no desire to try and score.

Once the third goal went in, that was the end of the game, and luckily tonight, we were against a team who couldn't hit a barn at 5 feet. De Gea did great to make sure their one chance stayed out.

But if we are lucky enough to get to the stage where we have to hold on against Real or Bayern or Barca....God help us. Cause that negativity will backfire hugely.

I'd have thought it was down to instructions from Moyes to sit deep once we got the third but Ray Houghton was saying a few times how Moyes was screaming at his defence to push up so I'm guessing its not on his instructions that they suddenly move down a few gears and camp out on the edge of their own box.

I remember the commentator also said the same thing in the Sunderland game so unless Moyes is trying to be cute in giving these instructions in the dressing room and then wanting to appear to not be as defensive on the touchline, I'd say the blame cant be laid squarely at his feet.

This sitting back and taking things easy was also a problem in recent years after taking early leads and is really something that pisses me right off, especially in games like tonight when we were so much on top and had them for the taking if we just carried on as we were instead of inviting them onto us.

2moreMinutes · 20-03-2014 12:11AM

J. Marston wrote: »

Ouch.

Fair play to him. I don't care how much joy I'd get, I'd still cry like a little girl if that happened to me.

yabadabado · 20-03-2014 12:13AM

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I'd have thought it was down to instructions from Moyes to sit deep once we got the third but Ray Houghton was saying a few times how Moyes was screaming at his defence to push up

lad on sky was saying the same thing.Moyes was urging the team to push up.

spiralism · 20-03-2014 12:14AM

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I'd have thought it was down to instructions from Moyes to sit deep once we got the third but Ray Houghton was saying a few times how Moyes was screaming at his defence to push up so I'm guessing its not on his instructions that they suddenly move down a few gears and camp out on the edge of their own box.

I remember the commentator also said the same thing in the Sunderland game so unless Moyes is trying to be cute in giving these instructions in the dressing room and then wanting to appear to not be as defensive on the touchline, I'd say the blame cant be laid squarely at his feet.

This sitting back and taking things easy was also a problem in recent years after taking early leads and is really something that pisses me right off, especially in games like tonight when we were so much on top and had them for the taking if we just carried on as we were instead of inviting them onto us.

Doesn't give the most flattering impression then, are the players listening to him at all then if that's the case? I get the feeling tonight that senior players took matters into their own hands, in a similar way to how the likes of the French Rugby team have done in recent years when being managed by someone they don't believe in.

user2011 · 20-03-2014 12:15AM

I'd put the blame on the pace of the first half. It was being played at an un-real pace (very enjoyable) though can't be expecting them too hang on to that for 90 mins.

2moreMinutes · 20-03-2014 12:26AM

spiralism wrote: »

Doesn't give the most flattering impression then, are the players listening to him at all then if that's the case?

It wouldn't be the first and it certainly wont be the last time that a team sits back when defending a lead and appear to not listen to the manager shouting at them from the sidelines.

My point was that if it was Moyes instructing them to sit deep and defend their lead, he wouldn't be giving contradictory instructions from the sideline on numerous occasions.

I get the feeling tonight that senior players took matters into their own hands, in a similar way to how the likes of the French Rugby team have done in recent years when being managed by someone they don't believe in.

I seriously doubt this but if they did, they did a piss poor job of the second half. Maybe they should listen to their manager's instructions instead?

Despite what most managers will say, if bad performances are placed on his shoulders, good performances should also be put down to him.
Its one thing wanting him gone & I understand that point of view. Its another thing to come up with the above nonsense and completely dismiss his ability to get a Man Utd team to perform in a crucial Champions League match at Old Trafford after they took a battering a few days before. Any decent manager worth his salt should be able to motivate those players to have performed tonight. Moyes did so. Credit where it is due and even though that credit isn't exactly removing all the doubts or resolving all the issues that everyone has, he still deserves the credit.

Son Of A Vidic · 20-03-2014 12:35AM

A great result tonight, far from vintage but overturning a 2 goal deficit is nothing to be sniffed at. Good to see the team having the balls for the fight and making an effort. Unlike the crap we witnessed in Greece a few weeks back. Delighted for the team, delighted for the fans in Old Trafford who backed them 200% and I'm delighted for Moyes.

yabadabado wrote: »

lad on sky was saying the same thing.Moyes was urging the team to push up.

Sure wasn't Moyes out in the technical area waving them up the field. They sat too deep after the third goal and just invited trouble. But you're right, I heard the commentators on RTE and Sky Sports, both mentioning Moyes wanted them to push out.

spiralism · 20-03-2014 12:38AM

You see though, i don't think he's really addressed much with the result. It's a great result but by all means we should be beating them, it's more a case that he should be taking considerable flak for not being able to beat them. We won tonight, ****ing good, we should be beating Olympiakos and it's mad we ended up in that situation in the first place.

In a lot of people's cases they stood by Moyes for a long time and gave him credit for what was good while absolving him somewhat of the bad points. Now for many they've seen so much that's bad that one good result against a team we should be beating isn't going to get us to change our tune. If it's ok for people to say that Moyes has been bequeathed a bad side and is struggling because of it and should be given more time to build his own team, shouldnt it on the flipside be ok for people to argue that those players who won tons of trophies for the club stood up and were counted tonight and got us that result?

Rayne Wooney · 20-03-2014 12:40AM

The thing is though we've been doing that a lot this season so you'd think by now he'd tell them that if he's saying get out, they actually get out as quickly as they can.

But that doesn't seem to be the case.

But saying that it happens at other clubs as well, I've often seen Wenger doing it and the team don't push up, but because we've conceded a lot it's getting more notice.

2moreMinutes · 20-03-2014 12:50AM

spiralism wrote: »

If it's ok for people to say that Moyes has been bequeathed a bad side and is struggling because of it and should be given more time to build his own team, shouldnt it on the flipside be ok for people to argue that those players who won tons of trophies for the club stood up and were counted tonight and got us that result?

If the players only decided to stand up & take things into their own hands tonight after our season has basically been written off, they should be ashamed of themselves for not doing so sooner. I don't believe this for one second though so its a moot point for me.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The thing is though we've been doing that a lot this season so you'd think by now he'd tell them that if he's saying get out, they actually get out as quickly as they can.

But that doesn't seem to be the case.

But saying that it happens at other clubs as well, I've often seen Wenger doing it and the team don't push up, but because we've conceded a lot it's getting more notice.

Personally, back in my playing days, I'd give a gentle nod of my head to acknowledge a manager shouting at me but would generally either not really hear him or else it was something obvious and basic being roared just for the sake of roaring and trying to get involved in the action. Anything important was always very clear as it was always passed on in a more civilised manner. I used to get shouted at a lot.:( (This is probably the first and very last time I'll even attempt to compare myself to multi-millionaire CL level footballers!)

I do often wonder though when I see managers getting overly animated exactly what they're hoping to achieve bar getting their feeling of helplessness off their chest.

Al Capwned · 20-03-2014 01:26AM

newballsplease wrote: »

Wheres the clown that was saying drop RVP before the game?

That would be me.

Completely stand over what I said - he deserved to be dropped based on his for and attitude in previous games. The fact that he scored three tonight doesn't change that fact.

Oranage2 · 20-03-2014 01:46AM

Lol, it's funny how when united win the players took it into their own hands, but when they lose because of a mistake or error it's Moyes fault.

20-03-2014 01:48AM

Well, I honestly didn't see that result or 1st half performance coming. It was frustrating to see us sit back in the 2nd half when all it would have taken was one goal to totally flip the tie against us, the palms of my hands were literally dripping for those last 10 minutes. Anyway, I'm delighted now. Well done Manchester United, well done David Moyes, well done RVP. Tonight wasn't a good night, it was a great night!

Oh and I got 'post of the day' on Boards, cheers lads! Just found out now, too late to wake the OH or phone me mammy, but jaysus they'll be proud tomorrow!

Fenix · 20-03-2014 01:55AM

Anyone seen this yet ? Looks like a (fake) training top to me.

Pro. F · 20-03-2014 02:40AM

Managers roaring at their teams from the sidelines, telling them to push up when they're sitting back, is just a sign of failure on the manager's part imo. I wouldn't think of it as dramatic, sackable failure, it's common enough. But if the team aren't doing what the manager wants - given that he has had money to spend, time to work, and quality players to use - it's because he hasn't managed them well enough.

Maybe the team would have had the confidence to push up the pitch more if Moyes had spent his £65m more wisely, in that he would have had the midfielders on the pitch to command the game better once the adrenaline fuelled energy, seen in the first half, had been used up. Or maybe Moyes is spending too much time on defensive work in training, so the players don't have the practice of playing the possession game they need when the energy runs low. Or maybe he focused too much on the dangers of conceding in his half time team talk and the players lost confidence when the Greeks started chasing the game. Or maybe he could have made better substitutions to give the team better outlets to relieve the pressure.

Whichever ways Moyes could have prevented or fixed the problem, the responsibility is his. Moyes trying to fix the problem by shouting on the sidelines shouldn't impress anybody.

Pro. F · 20-03-2014 02:43AM

Valencia is a warrior.

20-03-2014 02:44AM

Lot of luck to face a side who were ****ting themselves from the first whistle tbh. Happy if it keeps Moyes in for a bit longer though, can't deny it :P

spiralism · 20-03-2014 02:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Lot of luck to face a side who were ****ting themselves from the first whistle tbh. Happy if it keeps Moyes in for a bit longer though, can't deny it :P

In fairness i got that impression alright. They looked well out of sorts and the ground and atmosphere got to them. Two defenders booked in 9 minutes and all they did for most of the night was foul and moan.

20-03-2014 02:56AM

spiralism wrote: »

In fairness i got that impression alright. They looked well out of sorts and the ground and atmosphere got to them. Two defenders booked in 9 minutes and all they did for most of the night was foul and moan.

They tried spoiling tactics from the off and they weren't good enough to pull it off.

20-03-2014 02:59AM

Pro. F wrote: »

Valencia is a warrior.

He'd be the first player who I would normally give out about, but I thought he was immense tonight. 'Warrior' gets used too easily at times, but I'd have to agree with it in this case. Hopefully there's more where that came from, shíte I said 'hopefully', damn you Moyes!!

Anyway, well done Tony V.

20-03-2014 03:03AM

It was great to see Giggs and Rio get in on the player who was giving RVP shít for being down on the ground, when RVP was clearly injured and not just trying to run the clock down. The Olympiakos player boiled my blood with that action, well done Ryan and Rio for keeping it together!

DM_7 · 20-03-2014 06:17AM

I wouldn't blame Moyes for the team dropping back last night. He has used a negative mind set in the past so I see why he would get blamed. I think the players were tiring as they had to chase the game rather than take a controlled approach, that would leave the team exposed late on, especially the defenders and Carrick so they would have felt the need to sit back.

Anyway DeGea is a superhero. I think how easily the mistake v Sunderland was forgotten/ignored/brushed off shows how far he has come at United in last couple of years. Was reading the Olympiakos keeper getting injured at Atl Madrid is what gave him his chance, thank **** for that injury!

titan18 · 20-03-2014 07:24AM

From corners, Moyes always drops everyone back though, there's never anyone high up the pitch to be an outlet and for the opposing team to worry about.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 Mod warning Post #1880 #2613

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