Iona vs Panti

aloyisious · 20-02-2014 12:41AM

Ronán Mullen think's that gay people (of all people) should recognize that use of the word homophobe is hurtful and defamatory. That quote is near the end of this piece: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/a-lucid-debate-is-vital-ahead-of-referendum-on-marriage-1.1696326

He just fail's to mention the fact that homophobes do exist, that not all people labelled as homophobes or homophobic are actually defamed, that homophobes do exist.

Delirium · 20-02-2014 08:36AM

aloyisious wrote: »

Ronán Mullen think's that gay people (of all people) should recognize that use of the word homophobe is hurtful and defamatory. That quote is near the end of this piece: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/a-lucid-debate-is-vital-ahead-of-referendum-on-marriage-1.1696326

He just fail's to mention the fact that homophobes do exist, that not all people labelled as homophobes or homophobic are actually defamed, that homophobes do exist.

and suggesting that same-sex couples shouldn't be allowed marry/adopt isn't?

His whinging might have some merit if he applied his own standards to himself, Waters and Iona.

Akrasia · 20-02-2014 08:56AM

aloyisious wrote: »

Ronán Mullen think's that gay people (of all people) should recognize that use of the word homophobe is hurtful and defamatory. That quote is near the end of this piece: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/a-lucid-debate-is-vital-ahead-of-referendum-on-marriage-1.1696326

He just fail's to mention the fact that homophobes do exist, that not all people labelled as homophobes or homophobic are actually defamed, that homophobes do exist.

Ronan Mullen needs to watch southpark, meybe he'll realise that he's a parody of himself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Apologies_to_Jesse_Jackson

PopePalpatine · 20-02-2014 09:01AM

aloyisious wrote: »

Ronán Mullen think's that gay people (of all people) should recognize that use of the word homophobe is hurtful and defamatory. That quote is near the end of this piece: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/a-lucid-debate-is-vital-ahead-of-referendum-on-marriage-1.1696326

He just fail's to mention the fact that homophobes do exist, that not all people labelled as homophobes or homophobic are actually defamed, that homophobes do exist.

Next week, Nick Griffin complains that the word "racist" is hurtful and defamatory. Ronan Mullen would be one of the first to shout "QUEER!" at gay people if he knew no-one was noticing.

Cabaal · 20-02-2014 09:10AM

http://www.thejournal.ie/graham-norton-pantigate-1324370-Feb2014/

RTÉ payout after Panti interview was ‘moronic’, says Graham Norton
The BBC presenter was critical of the “tiny minority” of highly vocal opponents to same-sex marriage.

Tombo2001 · 20-02-2014 10:36AM

AngryHippie wrote: »

I think the media are consciously giving the Anti SSM brigade as much air time as possible, as the more they talk, the higher their gallows gets.

The big risk here is that the anonymous referendum result will show up exactly how many people have managed to give their argument credence, and fear some sort of calamitous outcome from allowing SSM. (This is completely irrational and there is no evidence to back it up)

It is easily countered by the LGBT community staying calm, being supportive of each other, and holding their ranks. SSM will have it's victory, you will be granted your civil rights, and will make the country a better place. Don't sink to the Iona "institute's" level of tinfoil hats and screeching about how oppressed they are. They have brought every consequence to date upon themselves, by preaching against a decision that does not affect them in any way. Just keep calm, keep making points built on a sensible foundation and wait until the public judges them.

They will get the message that their bigoted views are no longer shared by any kind of majority, and they will be ridiculed to the point that they can be openly derided on their soap-boxes the next time they cry wolf. That will be the end of their limelight in the Irish Media, And the country will be a better place for it. They have nailed their colors to the mast of a sinking ship.

It's a shame that intelligent people can publicly behave as they have and expect to be taken seriously, they are destroying their own reputations and careers, but this is their journey.:rolleyes:

I dont think thats true in the case of The Irish Times.

I think whats more likely is that the Irish Times is so self concious about being perceived as lefty and liberal that it gives absolutely heaps of print space to right wing conservatives to show that it is not just a lefty liberal paper.

The pity being that I really dont see much lefty liberal stuff being printed in it. It has become an unbalanced, right wing leaning paper, even though it it would never think of itself as such. But if the Irish Times is publishing Ronan Mullen or Breda O'Brien or whoever, then they are Irish Times articles at the end of the day; they choose to print the stuff. They seem to think ..."well its an opinion columnist, its not our view".....but the opinions of the newspaper are whats written in print, not what the editor might say if you meet him for a coffee.

lazygal · 20-02-2014 11:42AM

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/%E2%80%98my-good-name-has-been-demolished%E2%80%99

Breda has another whinge about how she's the real victim.

oceanclub · 20-02-2014 11:43AM

Graham Norton pays - ahem - tribute to Iona Institute:

www.hotpress.com/news/Graham-Nortons-verdict-on-RTE-Panti-and-homophobia/10994364.html

"I'm actually glad that ... the Iona Institute exist," he tells Hot Press. "The great thing about extremists is that they drag everyone towards the centre."

P.

Delirium · 20-02-2014 11:50AM

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/%E2%80%98my-good-name-has-been-demolished%E2%80%99

Breda has another whinge about how she's the real victim.

Yep. Hurt feelings of Breda are more important than addressing discrimination against a section of society. :rolleyes:

iwantmydinner · 20-02-2014 11:51AM

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/%E2%80%98my-good-name-has-been-demolished%E2%80%99

Breda has another whinge about how she's the real victim.

How can she in all seriousness complain about 'the debate' as they like to call it, being shut down, when she has access to SO MUCH media space?!

SO MUCH.

Not to mind the fact that she apparently hasn't heard that the kid thing is being dealt with entirely separately in new legislation.

Zubeneschamali · 20-02-2014 11:51AM

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/%E2%80%98my-good-name-has-been-demolished%E2%80%99

From that article:

There are cases where the only fair option for children is to formalise guardianship rights for same sex couples - Breda O'Brien, Patron of the Iona Institute

I'd just like to highlight that, so that when the Iona Institute start ranting about legalising adoption by same-sex couples this summer, I'll have the quote handy.

Obliq · 20-02-2014 11:52AM

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/%E2%80%98my-good-name-has-been-demolished%E2%80%99

Breda has another whinge about how she's the real victim.

"He was invited on to the stage of the Abbey Theatre to speak about how difficult it is to be gay. "

No, b*tch-face. He was speaking about the difficulties of experiencing homophobia.

Grrrr, blood boiling at entire article.

Penn · 20-02-2014 11:54AM

‘My good name has been demolished’

She had a good name?

Delirium · 20-02-2014 11:58AM

Obliq wrote: »

"He was invited on to the stage of the Abbey Theatre to speak about how difficult it is to be gay. "

No, b*tch-face. He was speaking about the difficulties of experiencing homophobia.

Grrrr, blood boiling at entire article.

Well duh, the problem is that homosexuals exist in society not that there are homophobic people abusing them.:rolleyes:

Tombo2001 · 20-02-2014 12:02PM

oceanclub wrote: »

"I'm actually glad that ... the Iona Institute exist," he tells Hot Press. "The great thing about extremists is that they drag everyone towards the centre."

P.

He is spot on. As long as the likes of Iona are more intent on scoring cheap points than genuinely promoting their views in an appealing way, then its better to stand back and let them dig their own hole.

lazygal · 20-02-2014 12:15PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

How can she in all seriousness complain about 'the debate' as they like to call it, being shut down, when she has access to SO MUCH media space?!

SO MUCH.

Not to mind the fact that she apparently hasn't heard that the kid thing is being dealt with entirely separately in new legislation.

I don't know when she finds the time to teach impressionable teenage girls with her busy commenting schedule.

Mr_A · 20-02-2014 12:19PM

So are babies only 'commissioned' outside of traditional marriage? Or is that just another use of language designed to demonise those outside of the chosen path of the righteous?

iwantmydinner · 20-02-2014 12:23PM

Mr_A wrote: »

So are babies only 'commissioned' outside of traditional marriage? Or is that just another use of language designed to demonise those outside of the chosen path of the righteous?

dehumanisation.com

lazygal · 20-02-2014 12:27PM

Mr_A wrote: »

So are babies only 'commissioned' outside of traditional marriage? Or is that just another use of language designed to demonise those outside of the chosen path of the righteous?

She's incredibly judgmental. All the couples I know who did ivf or were brave enough to say they went that route are married and had exhausted every possible "natural" option. No one wakes up and decides to undergo invasive treatments like ivf on a whim. Breda has been lucky enough to have children. You'd think she'd have empathy for those facing life unable to conceive, but given her compadre Mullen and his comments to couples with fatal foetal abnormalities it shouldn't surprise me she's a compassion free zone.

MrPudding · 20-02-2014 12:45PM

lazygal wrote: »

She's incredibly judgmental. All the couples I know who did ivf or were brave enough to say they went that route are married and had exhausted every possible "natural" option. No one wakes up and decides to undergo invasive treatments like ivf on a whim. Breda has been lucky enough to have children. You'd think she'd have empathy for those facing life unable to conceive, but given her compadre Mullen and his comments to couples with fatal foetal abnormalities it shouldn't surprise me she's a compassion free zone.

This is a odd thing, to me at least, but I find that very religious people can be incredibly lacking in empathy. You need only go to the other forum to see evidence of this. There are quite a few posters there who claim, and appear, to be very religious, but really come across a being most unpleasant, people that I would really not want to spend any time with in real life. Really quite nasty in some cases. I guess breda is merely an other example of this.

Perhaps it is due to the arrogance than often comes from following the "right" religion.

MrP

Tombo2001 · 20-02-2014 12:58PM

MrPudding wrote: »

This is a odd thing, to me at least, but I find that very religious people can be incredibly lacking in empathy. You need only go to the other forum to see evidence of this. There are quite a few posters there who claim, and appear, to be very religious, but really come across a being most unpleasant, people that I would really not want to spend any time with in real life. Really quite nasty in some cases. I guess breda is merely an other example of this.

Perhaps it is due to the arrogance than often comes from following the "right" religion.

MrP

I wouldnt agree with that.

I think that what distinguishes the likes of Ronan Mullen, John Waters etc isnt the fact they are religious, but that they are mouthy and want to be in the public eye, they want to win the argument and want their way to be THE way.....

You get these people in many walks of life. Militant Irish nationalists spring to mind. And a lack of empathy is almost a pre-requisite to behave in this way.

There are plenty of religious people who go about their religion in a very quiet personal way, and arent shoving their views down everyones throat, and these people can be extraordinarily empathetic. The most obvious example would be how many priests can comfort families in times of bereavement. I would never underestimate that, or take away from it. Religion or no religion, it has a real value in society.

Zillah · 20-02-2014 01:41PM

I'll call her a liar to her face, on air if possible, no hesitation. Here's why:

"One of the main reasons that gay people want marriage rights is so that they can be registered as parents of children, either by adopting a partner’s children or by commissioning children through surrogacy, and/or egg or sperm donation.

No gay couple can bring children into their relationship without the assistance of at least one person of the opposite gender. This fundamental difference, with all the profound implications for children of being raised either without their mother, or their father, is supposed to be politely ignored so that adults can receive their ‘rights.’"

If she really opposed gay marriage because of adoption and surrogacy then she would be campaigning against allowing infertile couples and elderly couples to get married. She doesn't. She is prejudiced against gay people. Which makes her homophobic.

Breda O'Brien is homophobic.

Zillah · 20-02-2014 01:50PM

Also it has to be a false statement, Breda dear, for it to be defamation.

Brian Shanahan · 20-02-2014 04:06PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I think whats more likely is that the Irish Times is so self concious about being perceived as lefty and liberal that it gives absolutely heaps of print space to right wing conservatives to show that it is not just a lefty liberal paper.

The IT long ago lost any resemblance of a paper that had a left-wing bias. And to be honest this image is well gone. When you employ someone (well syndicate) as nut-jobby as Mark Steyn you'll quickly lose any reputation for being to the left of Maggie. It's when the IT brought him in that I lost interest in reading the paper, before Madame Kennedy's ascendance they were a slightly right-wing paper who were intelligent enough to give a balanced voice to all and adopt left-wing ideas when they were correct. After it had little to differentiate it from the Murdoch stable.

Brian Shanahan · 20-02-2014 05:58PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

dehumanisation.com

Can be yours for four easy payments of $49.99. We'll also give you this nifty dejuicer, this spiffy ice maker and best of all this unparalleled windscreen cleaning mop.

AerynSun · 20-02-2014 07:07PM

Zillah wrote: »

... defamation.

Oh... but I thought... defamation was 'de-faming', like making my fame less shiny? You know? So even if what you say is true, if it takes away from my fame (and adds to my notoriety?), then it IS defamation. Right? No? :P

Zillah · 20-02-2014 07:51PM

If anything we're making her more famous.

kylith · 20-02-2014 09:18PM

If she's tired of people calling her homophobic has she tried not discriminating against gay people so much?

aloyisious · 20-02-2014 10:53PM

Mr_A wrote: »

So are babies only 'commissioned' outside of traditional marriage? Or is that just another use of language designed to demonise those outside of the chosen path of the righteous?

Some people preach that Gay Marriage (IMO a horrible title for Civil Marriage for our homosexual citizens) is solely about getting children as a commodity.

I think it strange that some of those people are women, the very same sex as those people who were seen and treated legally as chattels, property of their husbands, a few decades ago. Our society adapted, changed and scrapped that 2nd class view of women (even though vestiges hung around with the "retirement" of women when they became pregnant). I don't see how Breda can complain about how our society adapts and accepts that all it's citizens must be allowed advance from a 2nd class status to be equals amongst equals, unless she wishes to forgo the improvement in rights she and other women got from our society. It leaves me wondering if she would willingly put her name to a published article or opinion-piece saying that Irish Travellers should not be seen and treated as equals amongst equals.

tawnyowl · 20-02-2014 11:45PM

SW wrote: »

and suggesting that same-sex couples shouldn't be allowed marry/adopt isn't?

His whinging might have some merit if he applied his own standards to himself, Waters and Iona.

But that would require him to be consistent. He's being oppressed by people criticising him for being inconsistent!

Next people will be tweeting at him in disagreement!

Iona vs Panti

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