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Exactly what percentage of the population is "christian"?

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Comments

  • #1622
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,770 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Jernal wrote: »
    Christ! That's precise!:eek:

    Paul was never quite the same man after losing 0.49493 of his body in that accident.


  • #1623
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Penncil Dick wrote: »
    Paul was never quite the same man after losing 0.49493 of his body in that accident.

    You never miss your pinky til it's gone. :(


  • #1624
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    gaynorvader wrote: »
    Sure, no problem :)

    Population in 2011: 4,581,269
    %of population 14 years or younger: 21.3%
    Adult population in 2011: 3,605,458.703
    % Adult Roman Catholics: 69%
    Adult RCC population in 2011: 2,487,766.50507
    %RCC members that attended mass in the past week: 30%
    Adult RCC members within a week before the survey: 746,330 (rounding up)

    I may have been a little more generous with my rounding previously.

    Why did you decide not to count under-14s as people?

    Surely a more accurate calculation of people at mass on any given weekend would be:

    (4,581,269) x (0.84) x (0.3)


  • #1625
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,770 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Why did you decide not to count under-14s as people?

    Surely a more accurate calculation of people at mass on any given weekend would be:

    (4,581,269) x (0.84) x (0.3)

    gaynorvader's calcs was for Adults or those old enough that they could choose whether or not to go to Mass. Children (under-14s) do not have that choice.


  • #1626
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Why did you decide not to count under-14s as people?

    Surely a more accurate calculation of people at mass on any given weekend would be:

    (4,581,269) x (0.84) x (0.3)

    Possibly because legally under 14s are considered too young to be able to give informed consent so the issue as to whether this is really their religion of choice or rather the one chosen for them arises.


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  • #1627
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Penncil Dick wrote: »
    gaynorvader's calcs was for Adults or those old enough that they could choose whether or not to go to Mass. Children (under-14s) do not have that choice.

    OK. But why does that mean that they are not counted as people at Mass?

    My claim was, over a million people are at Mass every weekend. Under-14s are definetly people.


  • #1628
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Possibly because legally under 14s are considered too young to be able to give informed consent so the issue as to whether this is really their religion of choice or rather the one chosen for them arises.

    But are these under-14s at Mass or not? Are they not people?

    The lenghts people are going to to try and deny that over a million Irish people are ar mass each weekend are startling. I really didn't think people would be so shocked.


  • #1629
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,178 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    OK. But why does that mean that they are not counted as people at Mass?

    My claim was, over a million people are at Mass every weekend. Under-14s are definetly people.

    The calculation was for people that choose to go to mass.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1630
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    But are these under-14s at Mass or not? Are they not people?

    The lenghts people are going to to try and deny that over a million Irish people are ar mass each weekend are startling. I really didn't think people would be so shocked.

    Are you also counting small babies?

    Or toddlers?

    They are people too but while they may be in the church it's stretching it to say they are at Mass in any meaningful participatory way.


  • #1631
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Are you also counting small babies?

    Or toddlers?

    They are people too but while they may be in the church it's stretching it to say they are at Mass in any meaningful participatory way.

    When I said that there is easily more than a million people at Mass (in the Rep of Ireland) on any given weekend, I meant just that. People. It's a simple word Our Lord gave us to use when we're talking about numbers of persons (apologies to Mrs Doyle).

    I thought young people were the future of the church? Or that they needed protection from indoctrination. Why so quick to discount them as important here??


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  • #1632
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,178 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    When I said that there is easily more than a million people at Mass (in the Rep of Ireland) on any given weekend, I meant just that. People. It's a simple word Our Lord gave us to use when we're talking about numbers of persons (apologies to Mrs Doyle).

    I thought young people were the future of the church? Or that they needed protection from indoctrination. Why so quick to discount them as important here??

    why are you so quick to inflate numbers by including infants and young children that have no choice as to whether they attend mass?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1633
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    When I said that there is easily more than a million people at Mass (in the Rep of Ireland) on any given weekend, I meant just that. People. It's a simple word Our Lord gave us to use when we're talking about numbers of persons (apologies to Mrs Doyle).

    I thought young people were the future of the church? Or that they needed protection from indoctrination. Why so quick to discount them as important here??

    Step back from the hyperbole I Heart. I discounted no-one. I merely suggested a possible reason why gaynorvader counted only those over 14.

    I will say that counting under fives who have zero idea about what is even going on smacks of messaging the figures.

    I have commented that even if 1 million are going to Mass every Sunday (or Saturday night shure God can't expect people to give up their Sunday like) that means that around 3 million are not which looks bad for the RCC no matter how you want to spin it.

    I was in a Hindu Temple one time and the whole ceremony took place in Urdu so I didn't have the faintest notion what was going on (much like an under 5 at Mass) - if someone took a notion to count the number of devout Hindus that day should I have be counted among the Hindu faithful? I was there after all....


  • #1634
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,770 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    When I said that there is easily more than a million people at Mass (in the Rep of Ireland) on any given weekend, I meant just that. People. It's a simple word Our Lord gave us to use when we're talking about numbers of persons (apologies to Mrs Doyle).

    I thought young people were the future of the church? Or that they needed protection from indoctrination. Why so quick to discount them as important here??

    gaynorvader clearly stated in their post that their number concerned ADULTS who choose to go to Mass.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88585985#post88585985

    Nobody is saying children don't go to Mass/aren't important/aren't people etc.

    Simple question: Does a one year old child choose to go to Mass, in your opinion?


  • #1635
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    How many are at mass because it's an anniversary or months mind or similar? Apart from weddings and funerals that's the only reason anyone I know, Catholic in name or otherwise, usually goes to mass, and such masses are usually on a Sunday.


  • #1636
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Penncil Dick wrote: »
    Simple question: Does a one year old child choose to go to Mass, in your opinion?

    No. But it is a person at mass. Like I said.


  • #1637
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Step back from the hyperbole I Heart. I discounted no-one. I merely suggested a possible reason why gaynorvader counted only those over 14.

    I will say that counting under fives who have zero idea about what is even going on smacks of messaging the figures.

    I have commented that even if 1 million are going to Mass every Sunday (or Saturday night shure God can't expect people to give up their Sunday like) that means that around 3 million are not which looks bad for the RCC no matter how you want to spin it.

    I was in a Hindu Temple one time and the whole ceremony took place in Urdu so I didn't have the faintest notion what was going on (much like an under 5 at Mass) - if someone took a notion to count the number of devout Hindus that day should I have be counted among the Hindu faithful? I was there after all....

    Sorry if i came across as hyperbolic.

    I just don't like moving goalposts.

    I claim 1million + people go to mass each week in Rep of Ireland and people resort to ignoring whole sections of the population to prove me wrong.

    All I said was 1million plus people (and comfortably a million) go to mass each weekend. Why is this so controversial?


  • #1638
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Things I've learned on this thread:

    - The best way to find out what religion people are isn't to ask them
    - Under-14s aren't people


  • #1639
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,178 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Things I've learned on this thread:

    - The best way to find out what religion people are isn't to ask them
    - Under-14s aren't people

    No-one has said that. You're misunderstanding/misrepresenting what has been said in the last few posts.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #1640
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭weisses


    SW wrote: »
    No-one has said that. You're misunderstanding/misrepresenting what has been said in the last few posts.

    And gaynorvader is misunderstanding/misrepresenting what was said in the first place
    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I just can't believe that anyone doubts that there are 1 million people at mass on any given weekend. That baffles me to be honest.

    Anyway its getting a bit pedantic at this stage tbh


  • #1641
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    - Under-14s aren't people
    gaynorvader's post calculated the number of adults, not children, so I'm not quite sure why you're making this especially silly claim.


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  • #1642
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    I Heart Internet, gaynorvader said
    Using a combination of the 2011 census figures and the Iona institute's survey from the same year. I arrive at approximately 769,964 adults that attended mass within a week of the survey.

    You responded...
    I'd be interested to see how you arrived at that figure Gaynovader, given that iona report gives a 30% figure for mass "in the last week".

    gaynorvader responded with
    Sure, no problem

    Population in 2011: 4,581,269
    %of population 14 years or younger: 21.3%
    Adult population in 2011: 3,605,458.703
    % Adult Roman Catholics: 69%
    Adult RCC population in 2011: 2,487,766.50507
    %RCC members that attended mass in the past week: 30%
    Adult RCC members within a week before the survey: 746,330 (rounding up)

    I may have been a little more generous with my rounding previously.

    You responded
    Why did you decide not to count under-14s as people?

    Surely a more accurate calculation of people at mass on any given weekend would be:

    (4,581,269) x (0.84) x (0.3)

    Its not gaynorvader's fault you decided not to read and understand his use of the word adults in his first post, its your fault.


  • #1643
    gaynorvader
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭gaynorvader


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    Why did you decide not to count under-14s as people?

    Surely a more accurate calculation of people at mass on any given weekend would be:

    (4,581,269) x (0.84) x (0.3)

    Sorry, bit busy in work today! :)

    I wasn't discounting children as people, nor was I contesting your 1 million mass goers theory. The 30% figure only points to people over 15, so I was only including people that meet that criteria in my sample. I did specify ~750k adults in all my examples.

    I do think that including children in the Catholic count is a bit disingenuous as they don't get to speak for themselves.


  • #1644
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,284 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Things I've learned on this thread:
    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    People. It's a simple word Our Lord gave us to use when we're talking about numbers of persons (apologies to Mrs Doyle).

    Who knew? Certainly not the Romans, anyway.


  • #1645
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    People. It's a simple word Our Lord gave us to use when we're talking about numbers of persons (apologies to Mrs Doyle).

    Listening to some poor woman on the BBC who'd lost a late-midterm pregnancy being shamelessly exploited by her stridently anti-abortion local Tory MP reminded me afresh that not everyone even count "people" the way. Midterm people, first-term people, and pre-implantation pre-cell-differentiation still-floating-down-a-Fallopian-tube "people" according to some...)

    (Even less relatedly, can we please have a vote and finally decide on what age it's socially acceptable to refer to a child as "it"? Babe in arms is one thing (if still odd, IMO), but it weird me when someone refers to a person in the grammatical neuter, then we find out they're already in second-tier education...)


  • #1646
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    [2,487,766.50507]
    Jernal wrote: »
    Christ! That's precise!:eek:

    It's not necessarily accurate, but boy, it sure indeed is precise!


  • #1647
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Anyone want to take a guess at who said this
    Let me say it again. Breivik is a christian. He said it himself.

    HINT>     They have said the exact opposite on this many times on this thread.


  • #1648
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    There's exactly no devout Christians.

    Theres a whole load of delusional hypocrites though.


  • #1649
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    Cabaal wrote: »
    I think perhaps that percentage [90%] have some sort of belief, god or gods, an afterlife, having their dead relatives look after them etc.
    I doubt it's even that much. On the face of it, if you add in the Muslims, and subtract the outright hardcore robust-under-almost-every-question atheists from the "Catholics" (and other "Christians"), you get around that number. But there's clearly a much larger tranche of people who are closer to "soft disbelief" than to "soft belief". The people flip-flopping around incoherently from one question in one survey to another question in the next. Those playing Pascal's Wager, but with considerably less commitment than they're investing in their €2 Lotto ticket.


  • #1650
    alaimacerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,224 ✭✭✭alaimacerc


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I prefer to assess evidence based on its merits, not because i agree/disagree with who is giving me the evidence.

    OK... care to give us any clues as to how you assess "its merits"? Because this does seem like a case of "survey of 1000 people with an error of +/-3% at the 95% confidence level" getting a degree of credence that you seemed in no hurry to extend to the various similar surveys on "what Catholics actually believe" cited earlier in the thread.


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  • #1651
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    There's exactly no devout Christians.

    Theres a whole load of delusional hypocrites though.

    Do you want to spin the wheel on the wheel of hypocrisy/ All you have to do is answer this question.

    Was the radical Islamic American preacher Anwar al Awlaki a Muslim,

    He is the one who was murdered without trial after being put on Obama\s personal kill list. They also killed his innocent teenage son, also Ameican.

    This is his mugshot from when he was arrested for using prostitutes. Sex outside marriage is completely forbidden in Islam, nevermind with prostitutes.
    Al%2BAwlaki%2BMugSHOT%2BSD.jpg

    So Muslim or not Muslim


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