I need feminism because...

Davelarson · 22-11-2013 12:00PM

I don't agree with revenge porn but people really need to wise up and stop sending naked pictures of themselves to their partners.

Femme_Fatale · 22-11-2013 12:08PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Holy sh!t.

And what's the response from many? Her fault, she shouldn't have agreed to it in the first plae.

Davelarson wrote: »

I don't agree with revenge porn but people really need to wise up and stop sending naked pictures of themselves to their partners.

Stop trusting their partners? Stop doing fun, intimate things a couple should be able to to do?
Nah. Awful people who upload these things should stop doing that.

Davelarson · 22-11-2013 12:13PM

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

And what's the response from many? Her fault, she shouldn't have agreed to it in the first plae.

Stop trusting their partners? Stop doing fun, intimate things a couple should be able to to do?
Nah. Awful people who upload these things should stop doing that.

Unfortunately once you've sent someone a photo you've no real control over it. Young women can be very naive about this.

I remember finding a phone once. 4 or 5 girls had sent intimate pictures of themselves to the owner. He rang me the next day to get the phone back. I told him I was putting the photos up online. After I hung up I threw the phone into the river. It was quite hilarious how irate he got.

Sauve · 22-11-2013 12:15PM

Mod

Davelarson, do not post on this thread again please.

Davelarson · 22-11-2013 12:16PM

Sauve wrote: »

Mod

Davelarson, do not post on this thread again please.

Why? Advising people not to send naked pictures of themselves to their partners is hardly trolling. It's pretty good advice.

Sauve · 22-11-2013 12:27PM

Mod

Don't reply to a banned poster.
Posts deleted.

Tigger99 · 22-11-2013 12:35PM

Apologies, I'd written it before I realised he was banned.

Anyways. That woman's drive and determination was fantastic. I found her hugely inspiring.
Scary to think photos can just be hacked from people's computers, or their doctor's etc.

seenitall · 22-11-2013 05:33PM

A horrible and depressing story.

What it made me consider, though, is a wider scale implication of living in a society where a naked pic on-line that could always have been very easily falsified/photoshopped* is enough to ruin someone's entire career, relationship, image as a good parent, peace of mind, life??

Something is up with that. I would call it the near-sightedness of up-standingness... if ye know what I mean.

*but even were that not the case...

iwantmydinner · 22-11-2013 05:52PM

seenitall wrote: »

A horrible and depressing story.

What it made me consider, though, is a wider scale implication of living in a society where a naked pic on-line that could always have been very easily falsified/photoshopped* is enough to ruin someone's entire career, relationship, image as a good parent, peace of mind, life??

Something is up with that. I would call it the near-sightedness of up-standingness... if ye know what I mean.

*but even were that not the case...

Yep, I was pondering that myself. One of the commenters under the article kinda summed it up for me - naked photo = proof that you've been naked before = outrage (to paraphrase). Realistically, it should amount to nothing, when you think about it. We've all been naked, quite a lot of of us have had sex. To be outraged at something that simply bears witness to that (like a nudey pic) is pretty ridiculous.

Morag · 22-11-2013 05:58PM

The thing is more and more employers have morality clauses or clauses about not bringing the company into disrepute
so a picture like that can cost someone their job, if not their career.

seenitall · 22-11-2013 06:16PM

Morag wrote: »

The thing is more and more employers have morality clauses or clauses about not bringing the company into disrepute
so a picture like that can cost someone their job, if not their career.

Which, in this day and age, essentially means clauses against having the temerity to be hacked or your genuine pic photoshopped by someone who's got it in for you.

The technology of the 21st century and the "morality" of the 19th don't mix so well.

meeeeh · 22-11-2013 06:22PM

It's actually even more stark. Party photos can be just as bad and fb is full I f them so there really is no privacy anymore. That being said it's hard to trust to someone in responsible position if they can't exercise some kind of control over how much of their personal life ends online.

Henry9 · 23-11-2013 02:41AM

Henry9 wrote: »

That's 6% just adjusting for hours worked.
No mention yet of skills, experience or seniority, or y'know, maybe pay rates are different across industries.
Now watch while the inconvenient facts are ignored.

Ah well, there's always next year to talk about it again.

meeeeh · 23-11-2013 10:35AM

Henry9 wrote: »

Ah well, there's always next year to talk about it again.

This demands a more detailed post which I am not going to write on phone but professions dominated by women have comparatively lower wages. While I don't agree with across the board generalisations, there is a difference between genders, it is still expected for women to sacrifice their job prospects for family or do you seriously believe that there is such a lack of women in top positions because they are less experienced/capable/hard working? I know quite a few men who don't like working under a woman and so on...

I think racism is disgusting. Does that mean I'll argue with every racist and try reason with them? No, I just ignore them because they really are only waste of time. So maybe you shouldn't be so happy that nobody responded.

IvyTheTerrible · 23-11-2013 10:50AM

seenitall wrote: »

A horrible and depressing story.

What it made me consider, though, is a wider scale implication of living in a society where a naked pic on-line that could always have been very easily falsified/photoshopped* is enough to ruin someone's entire career, relationship, image as a good parent, peace of mind, life??

Something is up with that. I would call it the near-sightedness of up-standingness... if ye know what I mean.

*but even were that not the case...

This has made me remember something that I had forgotten about.
When I was 18, I had my debs and I brought a disposable camera with me. There was an after party in someone's house, and someone thought it was hilarious to take the camera out of the handbag I had left down and take a photo of a guy who had dumped me a few weeks previously basically getting intimate with his new girlfriend. My mother got the photos developed and went nuts because she thought it was me (the guy was recognisable, the girl you could only see from behind and she looked similar to me). Even after I convinced her it wasn't me, she was still really angry with me for some reason. (Bad enough that I was sickened to see the photos anyway).

I can very easily imagine then how my life could be ruined by similar photos online.

Amirani · 23-11-2013 10:52AM

Henry9 wrote: »

Ah well, there's always next year to talk about it again.

Don't post in this thread again Henry9.

Huckster · 23-11-2013 07:27PM

I need feminism because my mom still finds it acceptable to tell me to 'lighten up' when one of the guys working with me sends me a heap of inappropriate emails during office hours asking "what I'd like from Santie" and if I'd sit on his lap...

Henry9 · 23-11-2013 10:57PM

NiallSparky wrote: »

Don't post in this thread again Henry9.

Well that's reasonable, since the last poster that referred to me equated me with a racist.

I think racism is disgusting. Does that mean I'll argue with every racist and try reason with them? No, I just ignore them because they really are only waste of time. So maybe you shouldn't be so happy that nobody responded.

This particular gripe is mentioned from time to time, and the statistics are always wheeled out to rebut it.
It's not sexist to point these facts out, it just happens to be unpalatable to those with preconceived notions who don't like to be contradicted.

Sauve · 24-11-2013 12:48AM

Mod

Henry9 banned

meeeeh · 24-11-2013 03:17AM

Just to clarify I was explaining my position and not saying anyone is racist.

YumCha · 26-11-2013 11:11PM

I need feminism because I'm not even shocked anymore when first time offenders serve ZERO jail time for VAW...

Also just NOPE to this whole apologist crap of "he's shown remorse", maybe-but-unconfirmed sleep disorders and just all the other BLAH that is everything designed to never make him take actual responsibility for bashing a woman with a metal bar.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teacher-weeps-in-court-as-her-attacker-walks-free-29783407.html

Amirani · 27-11-2013 12:31AM

YumCha wrote: »

I need feminism because I'm not even shocked anymore when first time offenders serve ZERO jail time for VAW...

Also just NOPE to this whole apologist crap of "he's shown remorse", maybe-but-unconfirmed sleep disorders and just all the other BLAH that is everything designed to never make him take actual responsibility for bashing a woman with a metal bar.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teacher-weeps-in-court-as-her-attacker-walks-free-29783407.html

In fairness, he has completely accepted responsibility and there's not a whole lot else he can do at this point other than apologise and show remorse. Is there anything else he can do to "take actual responsibility"?

Yes the sentence should perhaps have been more severe, but it wasn't him who decided on the sentence.

RDM_83 again · 27-11-2013 12:45AM

YumCha wrote: »

I need feminism because I'm not even shocked anymore when first time offenders serve ZERO jail time for VAW...

Also just NOPE to this whole apologist crap of "he's shown remorse", maybe-but-unconfirmed sleep disorders and just all the other BLAH that is everything designed to never make him take actual responsibility for bashing a woman with a metal bar.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/teacher-weeps-in-court-as-her-attacker-walks-free-29783407.html

Thats nothing to do with feminism though and everything to do with the Irish legal system and how we handle people at whose psychiatric conditions cause them to harm others.
If anything in a more traditional patriarchal society he would have been more severely punished as woman would have been considering as defenseless and delicate.
Is it valid for me to argue that MRA is needed because of the successful use of PMS as a legal defense in the UK?
This is simply a twisted sort of equality in terms of light sentencing*

*I am a believer in the idea that people with psychiatric disorders should not necessarily be criminalized for their actions, that is not to say that they shouldn't be coercively confined

Dolbert · 27-11-2013 12:48AM

NiallSparky wrote: »

In fairness, he has completely accepted responsibility and there's not a whole lot else he can do at this point other than apologise and show remorse. Is there anything else he can do to "take actual responsibility"?

Yes the sentence should perhaps have been more severe, but it wasn't him who decided on the sentence.

Well that's alright then.

Yes, the sentence should have been more severe (or existed at all), that's sort of the point. This man attempted to murder her in her own home. Some judges in Ireland have an appalling track record for lenience when it comes to violent crimes against women.

YumCha · 27-11-2013 12:54AM

I just CAN'T with this

We have a dangerous, harmful myth and narrative for abusers, violent offenders and rapists which needs to be stamped out. This idea that they just "lost control" or that it's this totally "out-of-character" incident, or just "odd behaviour" is just NOPE all round.

And why should remorse be a factor? The fact that you can stand there and look sheepish for a short enough amount of time to convince a judge should not a get-out-of-jail-free card (except hey it is here). Oh and he lost his job? BOO ****ING HOO... And that whole thing about well maybe he has a sleep disorder, I mean there were no actual findings, but I'm going to mention it anyway... Or that he "can't explain his actions" but he's so so sorry about them... I don't see anything in the facts presented in the article that actually reflect genuine remorse, and this is a narrative that the defence plays into to secure lesser sentences.

RDM_83 again · 27-11-2013 12:58AM

YumCha wrote: »

I just CAN'T with this

We have a dangerous, harmful myth and narrative for abusers, violent offenders and rapists which needs to be stamped out. This idea that they just "lost control" or that it's this totally "out-of-character" incident, or just "odd behaviour" is just NOPE all round.

I agree with you actually but its not about feminism its about how violent crime is treated in Ireland, take a look at any paper and you will see people committing crimes that will impact their victims for years and receiving extremely short sentences, be it male - male, male - female, female -female, female -male.

Amirani · 27-11-2013 01:15AM

YumCha wrote: »

And why should remorse be a factor? The fact that you can stand there and look sheepish for a short enough amount of time to convince a judge should not a get-out-of-jail-free card (except hey it is here). Oh and he lost his job? BOO ****ING HOO... And that whole thing about well maybe he has a sleep disorder, I mean there were no actual findings, but I'm going to mention it anyway... Or that he "can't explain his actions" but he's so so sorry about them... I don't see anything in the facts presented in the article that actually reflect genuine remorse, and this is a narrative that the defence plays into to secure lesser sentences.

Remorse has to be a factor when sentencing someone, provided it can be ascertained that the remorse is genuine (this certainly wouldn't include looking sheepish in front of a judge). I'm not saying remorse should necessarily mean offenders are exempt from jail time, but whether or not someone is truly remorseful absolutely makes a difference when determining how long they should spend in prison.

To be fair, we're all really speculating here. It's unwise to attempt to draw too many conclusions based on a single article. One would have to assume that 22 days of psychiatric assessement can provide a decent insight into a person's motives and the state of their remorse. We don't have those insights, but the psychiatrist who made the recommendations does. I think there would be more value in placing trust in the psychiatrist than a journalist who wrote an article despite being, like us, unaware of any insights gained from psychiatric evaluation.

YumCha · 27-11-2013 01:18AM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I agree with you actually but its not about feminism its about how violent crime is treated in Ireland, take a look at any paper and you will see people committing crimes that will impact their victims for years and receiving extremely short sentences, be it male - male, male - female, female -female, female -male.

Nope. Look at the gender breakdown of perpetrators of VAW.

DMR1861 · 27-11-2013 01:25AM

Have to say I have some pity for this man. He obviously has serious mental health issues and has been let down by the state.

Doesn't excuse what he did though.

RDM_83 again · 27-11-2013 01:27AM

YumCha wrote: »

Nope. Look at the gender breakdown of perpetrators of VAW.

I'm not saying that men don't initiate (and suffer) the majority of violent crime.
What I am saying is that:

Male on Male violent crime : sentenced too lightly
Male on Female violent crime : sentenced too lightly
Female on Female violent crime : sentenced too lightly
Female on Male violent crime: sentenced too lightly

Each of these has very different rates but they all share they the fact that the impact on their victims is not taken into account enough its not a gender issue its an issue with sentencing for nearly every type of violent crime in Ireland

I need feminism because...

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