I need feminism because...

19-10-2013 11:25AM

http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/powerful-ads-use-real-google-searches-show-scope-sexism-worldwide-153235

I did go off and have a look and got similar autoprompts
"men should not" got "wear women's clothing, wear sandals, wear shorts"
Although "men should" got "be enslaved, pursue women, weep"

Maybe we can just conclude there are a lot of strange people out there

YumCha · 21-10-2013 10:39PM

I need feminism because there are still parts of the world where women can be sentenced to 10 years in jail for having a miscarriage - sorry "intentionally murdering the 38-to-42 week foetus."

Christ.

meeeeh · 21-10-2013 11:06PM

When women are afraid to come to the hospital it is actually contraproductive because more women and babies die than would ot have otherwise for not being treated properly.

As a separate issue, is this supposed to be proper news article? It is very soft on the detail abou original case.
Edit: at least they linked the proper article as source at the end. The full story is absolutely horrific and shows dreadful discrimination of mostly poor women.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24532694

Jerrica · 06-11-2013 10:26AM

I need feminism because "Roastbusters" is a thing. A group of young Auckland men publicly recruiting others to join them in group sex sessions with girls - some of them underage.

More worryingly (from the article)

Police admit they have interviewed a number of girls over a two-and-a-half-year period about the Roast Busters. And they've been monitoring the group's Facebook page, which they describe as morally objectionable but not criminal.

LenaClaire · 06-11-2013 05:41PM

I need feminism because a co-worker went to do sales calls on a new customer and got to listen to the customer rant for half an hour about he was insulted they had sent a female sales person.

His rant was that "Everyone knows that women have no business working in IT and the damn "pink lobby" is making IT companies hire women." He "had to hire a damn woman" and said this all in front of my co-worker and the other "damn woman" he "had to hire."

iwantmydinner · 06-11-2013 05:44PM

LenaClaire wrote: »

I need feminism because a co-worker went to do sales calls on a new customer and got to listen to the customer rant for half an hour about he was insulted they had sent a female sales person.

His rant was that "Everyone knows that women have no business working in IT and the damn "pink lobby" is making IT companies hire women." He "had to hire a damn woman" and said this all in front of my co-worker and the other "damn woman" he "had to hire."

I actually feel sick reading that. How is your co-worker after it??

LenaClaire · 06-11-2013 05:46PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

I actually feel sick reading that. How is your co-worker after it??

She is okay, has a great sense of humor and a very thick skin. Also said that the "damn woman" was very sharp and she wanted to build a business relationship with her, and that the other guy can go F off.

Frito · 06-11-2013 09:54PM

Jerrica wrote: »

I need feminism because "Roastbusters" is a thing. A group of young Auckland men publicly recruiting others to join them in group sex sessions with girls - some of them underage.

More worryingly (from the article)

The article has a link from a girl who alleges a sexual assault at age thirteen (she is now fifteen) by these teenagers. She reports that when she went to police she was questioned about what she was wearing. Paradoxically, she was asked to re-enact the assault using dolls.
I'm not sure whether the police consider her a provocative adult or a vulnerable minor.

I suppose it is entirely possible the police were asking her about the clothes she wore to assess whether her clothes would be evidence of assault (ie ripped) however there is no comment from them. The girl herself feels it was a judgmental line of questioning.

Morag · 07-11-2013 12:34PM

http://networkedblogs.com/QPOw1

Today is equal pay day and and from this day onwards many women are doing the same work as men, but for free.

Equal Pay Day – which is on 7 November in the UK – marks the point at which women working full-time effectively stop earning as they are paid 15 per cent less per hour than men working full-time. But in some professions the gender pay gap is much wider, says the TUC. According to the TUC’s research, female health professionals have the biggest pay gap at 31 per cent, which works out at £16,000 a year.

Fukuyama · 08-11-2013 10:20AM

NiallSparky wrote: »

30 Rock and Orange Is The New Black are two that spring to mind.

House of Cards too.

Looks like Netflix are about the only 'TV' company making decent female characters.

RDM_83 again · 08-11-2013 01:37PM

Morag wrote: »

http://networkedblogs.com/QPOw1

Today is equal pay day and and from this day onwards many women are doing the same work as men, but for free.

I'm not sure what level of criticism of posts is allowed here, but since this post doesn't seem to be a "personal" viewpoint can I point out that this view of the gender pay gap as being down directly to gender is controversial to say the least (particularly at the high rates quoted).
With adjustment for "life style choices" studies show that the differences are much smaller.

This Equality Authority study puts the adjusted pay gap at 7.8%, and thats using data from 2002/2003 AFAIK, post recession and with a decade of social change the situation could be very different. And remember pre the late 2000's the equality authority rightly or wrongly did appear to have certain agendas.

http://www.equality.ie/Files/The%20Gender%20Wage%20Gap%20in%20Ireland.pdf

There's numerous other studies that will show the pay gap is non existent when adjustments are made and numerous others that will show a huge gap.
But I think if we're going to ignore the differences "life style choices" you have to expand your view to include the total population regardless of employment status. If we do this I would be fairly certain the income at least for the younger generations e.g pre 30 would be much higher for woman.

By the way i am point this out not as a guy seeking to defend a high pay check!But rather that as a person who understands the impacts choices and career make, though I would be very academically qualified my OH half earns literally twice my rate P/Hr because she has no gaps in her employment history and is in industry that is not struggling.

ps wasn't there already an Equal Pay day earlier in the year.

Morag · 08-11-2013 02:27PM

You are quoting stats for Ireland if you had read the article you would see it was about the UK and adjustments had already been made.
Yes those stats for Ireland are very out of date.

Grimebox · 08-11-2013 02:31PM

bluewolf wrote: »

http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/powerful-ads-use-real-google-searches-show-scope-sexism-worldwide-153235

I did go off and have a look and got similar autoprompts
"men should not" got "wear women's clothing, wear sandals, wear shorts"
Although "men should" got "be enslaved, pursue women, weep"

Maybe we can just conclude there are a lot of strange people out there

I'm okay with women getting shoulder tattoos

RDM_83 again · 08-11-2013 04:56PM

Morag wrote: »

You are quoting stats for Ireland if you had read the article you would see it was about the UK and adjustments had already been made.
Yes those stats for Ireland are very out of date.

Only the most basic adjustments have been made, the actual report isn't out yet as far as I can see and going by the questionnaire from the office of National Statistics I am not sure that they can even be applied.

Be honest about the Irish stats yes they are out of date, but do you think that with the decimation of the traditionally male dominated industries since the recession and the continued work of bodies like the Equality Authority and others the situation would really be worse than it was ten years ago.

Its useless arguing that woman are paid less because of their gender unless you take into account all the other variables which many of these surveys trotted out that show a major gap tend to do (a minor gap I can believe)

Here's the link to the survey
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/method-quality/specific/labour-market/annual-survey-of-hours-and-earnings/annual-survey-of-hours-and-earnings/index.html

Morag · 08-11-2013 06:39PM

With the removal of flexi hours and job sharing we have more women unemployed then we did 10 years ago.

RDM_83 again · 08-11-2013 08:41PM

Morag wrote: »

With the removal of flexi hours and job sharing we have more women unemployed then we did 10 years ago.

Look at this graphic and see the change (I'm too lazy to make up my own graph), yes more woman are unemployed but look at the difference in the rates.
Where I would agree there is probably a masking of woman being disproportionately effected is in hours being cut but the job being retained (unlike the male counterparts in construction for example how might only be occasional working but at those times that they are in employment being on full hours)

Unemployment%252520Rate%252520by%252520Gender%25255B5%25255D.png

Unemployment%252520Rate%252520by%252520Gender%25255B5%25255D.png

Morag · 09-11-2013 10:04PM

Found stats form 2011

http://ec.europa.eu/ireland/ireland_in_the_eu/impact_of_eu_on_irish_women/index_en.htm

European Commission statistics show that Irish women earn, on average, 13.9 per cent less than men. The average across the EU is 16 per cent.

In 1969, just four years before Ireland joined the EEC, the average industrial earnings for women as a percentage of male earnings was 47 per cent.

This percentage grew to 58 per cent by 1979 and to 61 per cent by 1989. In 1998, women in Ireland were earning 66 per cent of male earnings, although they did work slightly fewer hours than their male counterparts.

In 2003 the EU Council made recommendations on the implementation of employment policies and urged Member States to address underlying factors causing the pay gap.

By 2006 Irish women's hourly earnings had climbed to around 86 per cent of men’s, despite the fact that they are more likely to have a third-level qualification.

In 2009, men in Ireland had an average income of €34,317 while the average for women was €25,103, or 73.1 per cent of men’s income. By 2011, when the figures are adjusted to take account of the average hours per week spent in paid employment, women’s average hourly income was about 94 per cent.

Even after adjustments, it's still not equal.

RDM_83 again · 10-11-2013 03:51PM

In 2009, men in Ireland had an average income of €34,317 while the average for women was €25,103, or 73.1 per cent of men’s income. By 2011, when the figures are adjusted to take account of the average hours per week spent in paid employment, women’s average hourly income was about 94 per cent.

So the actual difference in pay that can be attributed to gender is 6%, I can believe this figure, but 6% is nothing like the figures highlighted by you earlier in the thread, and I wonder if with the addition of correction for other variables aside from hours worked this might even be lower.

This difference in pay is actual comparable to the differences that occur in pay due to other physical characteristics such as height or "beauty" in fact these might even have a stronger effect than gender but I don't read about work for free days for the "facially" or vertically challenged.

http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/re/articles/?id=362

It just irks me that this issue is highlighted as such an important fact by some sections of the media and online commentary by misrepresenting statistics for their press releases , where the economic devastation of an entire subsection of society (young males) is a minor note.
Its not whataboutery to suggest that there is much more pressing social and economic issues to be addressed especially when unions are involved that should be representing all their members.

LenaClaire · 13-11-2013 06:45PM

I found this article interesting as a reaction to people saying that we don't need feminism or that it hurts men.

http://redemptionpictures.com/2013/11/12/how-feminism-hurts-men/

Henry9 · 13-11-2013 09:07PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

So the actual difference in pay that can be attributed to gender is 6%, I can believe this figure, but 6% is nothing like the figures highlighted by you earlier in the thread, and I wonder if with the addition of correction for other variables aside from hours worked this might even be lower.

This difference in pay is actual comparable to the differences that occur in pay due to other physical characteristics such as height or "beauty" in fact these might even have a stronger effect than gender but I don't read about work for free days for the "facially" or vertically challenged.

http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/re/articles/?id=362

It just irks me that this issue is highlighted as such an important fact by some sections of the media and online commentary by misrepresenting statistics for their press releases , where the economic devastation of an entire subsection of society (young males) is a minor note.
Its not whataboutery to suggest that there is much more pressing social and economic issues to be addressed especially when unions are involved that should be representing all their members.

That's 6% just adjusting for hours worked.
No mention yet of skills, experience or seniority, or y'know, maybe pay rates are different across industries.
Now watch while the inconvenient facts are ignored.

Henry9 · 13-11-2013 09:15PM

LenaClaire wrote: »

I found this article interesting as a reaction to people saying that we don't need feminism or that it hurts men.

http://redemptionpictures.com/2013/11/12/how-feminism-hurts-men/

"Whatever you do, don’t read Jesus Feminist. It’s full of ideas that will continue to oppress and harm men — ideas such as “women are people too” and “the dignity of and rights of women are as important as those of men”.

Are there any of these feminist blogs that don't resort to this kind of straw manning?
The only people for instance I see talking about women 'asking for it' are feminists being 'ironic'

iwantmydinner · 13-11-2013 10:23PM

Henry9 wrote: »

"Whatever you do, don’t read Jesus Feminist. It’s full of ideas that will continue to oppress and harm men — ideas such as “women are people too” and “the dignity of and rights of women are as important as those of men”.

Are there any of these feminist blogs that don't resort to this kind of straw manning?
The only people for instance I see talking about women 'asking for it' are feminists being 'ironic'

Tell that to the Steubenville rape victim.

Morag · 14-11-2013 10:47AM

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-has-lowest-number-of-female-politicians-in-developed-world-29752380.html

iwantmydinner · 14-11-2013 11:19AM

Morag wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-has-lowest-number-of-female-politicians-in-developed-world-29752380.html

The fooking comments, give me strength...

Amirani · 14-11-2013 09:17PM

Morag wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-has-lowest-number-of-female-politicians-in-developed-world-29752380.html

While I completely agree with your view that a problem exists, I have no idea where the Independent are getting their stats from. Ireland's female participation in parliament (Dáil and Seanad) is 19.5% rather than the 15% claimed in the article.

This is a useful table here of the breakdown in different countries: http://ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm

As you can see from there, Ireland doesn't have the lowest participation rates in the OECD either. Japan for example is far lower at 10.8%

Henry9 · 15-11-2013 12:16AM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Tell that to the Steubenville rape victim.

Tell what to her? Are those blogs aimed at the perpetrators of that particular crime?

iwantmydinner · 15-11-2013 09:52AM

Henry9 wrote: »

Tell what to her? Are those blogs aimed at the perpetrators of that particular crime?

Am, the bit I highlighted?! I'm not sure what you're unclear on.

Morag · 19-11-2013 02:16PM

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fg-politician-hussey-quits-race-over-gender-quotas-250024.html#.UosYn3SsEaA.twitter

He said he was in favour of increasing female representation in politics but “they have families and if they want to be politicians they’ll have to pay exorbitant money into creches — it’s all wrong”.

Heaven forbid women not want children or men you know have families too and need creches.

Links234 · 22-11-2013 10:06AM

This is a tough read: http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/charlotte-laws-hunter-moore-erin-brockovich-revenge-porn

iwantmydinner · 22-11-2013 10:30AM

Links234 wrote: »

This is a tough read: http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/charlotte-laws-hunter-moore-erin-brockovich-revenge-porn

Holy sh!t.

I need feminism because...

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