Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Windmills- Corrupt payment for neighbours?

1…5791011

Comments

  • #182
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Greensleeves wrote: »
    I haven't taken anything up wrong; I was told this by a farmer who was debating whether to host a turbine. Perhaps the farmer misunderstood what the lads from Element Power were saying when they called to the farm; the land in question had been recently improved so the farmer was worried about drainage, etc.

    Reilig, you really should read up on some of substantial body of information available about wind farms. For example:

    "Scotland’s countryside faces being littered with the concrete bases of wind farms that have been dismantled at the end of their operational lives, a major study has warned.

    Research commissioned by Scottish National Heritage (SNH) found that removing the reinforced concrete could cause more environmental damage than leaving the bases where they are."


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10142126/Old-wind-farms-bases-could-be-left-in-countryside.html


    Stop trying to twist it.

    Yesterday you came on here and said that the windfarms in Raharney and Killucan would see 1000 acres covered in concrete. This was complete sensationalism and was probably part of the information fed to locals in order to convince them that Wind Turbines would be bad for the area. The point that I made was that this is not true and that proper information should be made available to people so that they can make up their own mind - instead of being told what to think!

    As for the article above, what would be wrong with fitting new turbines to the existing bases? Or if they didn't want to do this, why couldn't they just cover them in soil and return the land to farmland. Concrete isn't toxic!


  • #183
    Marooned75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Marooned75


    reilig wrote: »
    or about 3/4 of an inch of concrete over 1 acre which would break up into gravel on the first frosty night!

    I don't think that would be able to support something 185 mts tall?So I think a lot more concrete would have to be used.


  • #184
    Greensleeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Greensleeves


    reilig wrote: »
    Yesterday you came on here and said that the windfarms in Raharney and Killucan would see 1000 acres covered in concrete. This was complete sensationalism and was probably part of the information fed to locals in order to convince them that Wind Turbines would be bad for the area.

    The information came from a farmer signing up for a turbine; if farmers have the wrong information then there is something very wrong here.
    The point that I made was that this is not true and that proper information should be made available to people so that they can make up their own mind - instead of being told what to think!
    Who do you suggest people should turn to for "proper information"? If someone signing up for a turbine doesn't have reliable information who does?


  • #185
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Greensleeves wrote: »
    The information came from a farmer signing up for a turbine; if farmers have the wrong information then there is something very wrong here.

    Who do you suggest people should turn to for "proper information"? If someone signing up for a turbine doesn't have reliable information who does?

    You are the person on this thread who is giving the information to general readers about wind farms. As a number of people have already pointed out, the information that you are giving is not reliable. So if you stopped putting out false sensationalism information, it would be a start!

    As you say, a farmer signing up for the wind farm gave you the information - which is false. He doesn't know what he is getting into. Once again this reinforces my point that enough reliable information has not been given to help people make up their own minds.

    Irish Wind Energy Association are well placed to give information - how much contact has your group had with them and what information did you get from them that you can share with us?

    What about SEAI?
    Have you been in contact with them?

    What about the International Renewable Energy Agency. They are well placed to give independent and reliable information about projects of this scale from around the world.

    Information from places like these is credible. Idle chat from a farmer at a mart who doesn't understand what he has been offered and only sees euro signs is misleading!!!!


  • #186
    Greensleeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Greensleeves


    reilig wrote: »
    As you say, a farmer signing up for the wind farm gave you the information - which is false. He doesn't know what he is getting into. Once again this reinforces my point that enough reliable information has not been given to help people make up their own minds.

    So you are saying that the farmers all signed leases without having reliable information. Would they really be that stupid?
    Irish Wind Energy Association are well placed to give information - how much contact has your group had with them and what information did you get from them that you can share with us?
    The IWEA is a lobby group; they are funded by the wind industry to put about good news about wind energy, although they seem to be doing a particularly bad job in this instance. IWEA council members include Peter Harte and Tim Cowhig of Element Power.

    I am not a "group", my opinions are my own.
    What about SEAI?
    Have you been in contact with them?
    The SEAI is chaired by Brendan Halligan, a director and shareholder of Mainstream Renewable Power. Hardly unbiased. In other countries such a conflict of interest would not be tolerated.
    Information from places like these is credible. Idle chat from a farmer at a mart who doesn't understand what he has been offered and only sees euro signs is misleading!!!!
    It's a bit insulting to farmers to suggest that they don't understand what they're signing up for. My advice to the farmer was to get a good solicitor to look over the lease and to get on the internet and do some research.

    What you are suggesting is that people rely on propaganda from vested interests. Happily most people are capable of doing their own research and are willing to spend a couple of hours on the internet checking out any information supplied to them. When people do this they find that there are many problems associated with industrial wind turbines and they form protest groups.


  • Advertisement
  • #187
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Look, I'm not insulting any farmer but 1 guy who told you that 1000 acres would be covered in concrete. It's plain and obvious that he doesn't know what he is getting into. If he did, he wouldn't have told you what he did. I never mentioned any other farmer.

    There are stupid people out there in every business, not just farming. The old saying is that you never have to go too far to find a fool!

    Propaganda is another word for sensationalism.

    Saying that the turbines will cause 1000 acres to be covered in concrete is just that. Should people be lead by the propaganda from you which which you received from this ill informed farmer or should they be lead by "propaganda" from recognised organisations who provide information on both the pro and anti wind farm groups??

    At the end of the day, how much had your information got to do with farmers on this forum? It seems to me that you are trying to promote your own agenda and the agenda of the group that you represent which has nothing to do with farmers????

    Greensleeves wrote: »
    So you are saying that the farmers all signed leases without having reliable information. Would they really be that stupid?

    The IWEA is a lobby group; they are funded by the wind industry to put about good news about wind energy, although they seem to be doing a particularly bad job in this instance. IWEA council members include Peter Harte and Tim Cowhig of Element Power.

    I am not a "group", my opinions are my own.

    The SEAI is chaired by Brendan Halligan, a director and shareholder of Mainstream Renewable Power. Hardly unbiased. In other countries such a conflict of interest would not be tolerated.

    It's a bit insulting to farmers to suggest that they don't understand what they're signing up for. My advice to the farmer was to get a good solicitor to look over the lease and to get on the internet and do some research.

    What you are suggesting is that people rely on propaganda from vested interests. Happily most people are capable of doing their own research and are willing to spend a couple of hours on the internet checking out any information supplied to them. When people do this they find that there are many problems associated with industrial wind turbines and they form protest groups.


  • #188
    maidhc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭maidhc


    reilig wrote: »
    You are the person on this thread who is giving the information to general readers about wind farms. As a number of people have already pointed out, the information that you are giving is not reliable. So if you stopped putting out false sensationalism information, it would be a start!

    As you say, a farmer signing up for the wind farm gave you the information - which is false. He doesn't know what he is getting into. Once again this reinforces my point that enough reliable information has not been given to help people make up their own minds.

    Irish Wind Energy Association are well placed to give information - how much contact has your group had with them and what information did you get from them that you can share with us?

    What about SEAI?
    Have you been in contact with them?

    What about the International Renewable Energy Agency. They are well placed to give independent and reliable information about projects of this scale from around the world.

    Information from places like these is credible. Idle chat from a farmer at a mart who doesn't understand what he has been offered and only sees euro signs is misleading!!!!

    Relig, with due respect information from the above places is not necessarily credible. They are promoting wind energy.The IWEA is a trade body, not a reliable source. I'm concerned about the SEAI also given recent reports about shared directorships between it and mainstream. It would almost be like going to IBEC with an employment issue and expecting to get balanced advice.

    My view is that many farmers have been taken for a ride by the Wind Energy companies. Most solicitors don't appreciate the full ramifications of the contracts, which are horrendous in my view and completely one sided.

    Furthermore farmers need to be advised they live in the countryside and irrespective of the facts, people don't want these turbines, and it will create a lot of ill will.


  • #189
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    maidhc wrote: »
    Relig, with due respect information from the above places is not necessarily credible. They are promoting wind energy.The IWEA is a trade body, not a reliable source. I'm concerned about the SEAI also given recent reports about shared directorships between it and mainstream. It would almost be like going to IBEC with an employment issue and expecting to get balanced advice.

    My view is that many farmers have been taken for a ride by the Wind Energy companies. Most solicitors don't appreciate the full ramifications of the contracts, which are horrendous in my view and completely one sided.

    Furthermore farmers need to be advised they live in the countryside and irrespective of the facts, people don't want these turbines, and it will create a lot of ill will.

    I agree.

    However, we are getting information from both extremes - those who are trying to promote wind turbines and those who don't want them in their back garden. For the general public, like me, the only information that I hear is from the no camp and most of that is similar to the crap posted above "1000 acres under concrete".

    If this is one of the main points of conflict for the poster above then he hasn't a leg to stand on.

    Again, as I said 5 times, I would like to see credible information from both sides being presented to those interested so that they can make up their own minds. I'm sick of sensationalism bullsh1t like what was quoted above!! The public deserve the chance to have all of the information so that they can make up their own mind. Using stupid stories about acres of land being concreted over is a way of telling people how to think rather than giving them the information to make up their own mind!!


  • #190
    Greensleeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Greensleeves


    I retract my suggestion that there will be 1,000 acres of concrete. I should never have quoted an unverifiable source no matter how intelligent and thoughtful I considered that person to be. It is not my intention to mislead anyone or to make sensationalist claims.

    Nobody should be lead by propaganda from anyone. It is up to each individual to research this themselves and make up their own mind. I don't expect anyone to rely on the word of posters on an internet forum (either mine or anyone elses); we are lucky enough to have the world at our fingertips via the internet and it behoves us all to stir ourselves and spend a couple of hours researching things that will affect us for a long time to come.


  • #191
    Greensleeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Greensleeves


    There was a protest march against the midlands wind turbines in Mullingar yesterday (Saturday 27th July). According to reports in TheJournal.ie and the Westmeath Examiner between 1,500 and 2,000 people turned out.

    http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/07/27/4016901-not-in-our-area-say-2000-at-mullingar-windfarm-protest/#sthash.HbcT9TBU.uxfs

    http://www.thejournal.ie/windfarm-protest-mullingar-1011242-Jul2013/


  • Advertisement
  • #192
    expectationlost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,960 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    one presumes this energy is being traded, its not so literal electricity


  • #193
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    Who can I contact to get 5/6 of these turbines?


  • #194
    yellow50HX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭yellow50HX


    Greensleeves wrote: »
    There was a protest march against the midlands wind turbines in Mullingar yesterday (Saturday 27th July). According to reports in TheJournal.ie and the Westmeath Examiner between 1,500 and 2,000 people turned out.

    http://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/07/27/4016901-not-in-our-area-say-2000-at-mullingar-windfarm-protest/#sthash.HbcT9TBU.uxfs

    http://www.thejournal.ie/windfarm-protest-mullingar-1011242-Jul2013/

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ


  • #195
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,002 ✭✭✭✭Birdnuts


    delaval wrote: »
    Who can I contact to get 5/6 of these turbines?


    Investors with big pockets. I certainly wouldn't risk my own money given whats happening in Spain at the moment where the government has pulled the plug on reneweable energy subsidies due to spiralling costs. Last weeks Economist makes chilling reading in that regard.


  • #196
    maidhc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭maidhc


    delaval wrote: »
    Who can I contact to get 5/6 of these turbines?

    http://www.enercon.de/de-de/

    It would be appropriate to apply for planning before placing an order!


  • #197
    Manoffeeling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Manoffeeling


    http://raptorpolitics.org.uk/2012/11/22/14000-abandoned-wind-turbines-being-left-to-rot-in-the-usa/


  • #198
    Greensleeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Greensleeves


    The Gaybrook Residents Against Wind Turbines Facebook page says that Westmeath County Council is putting forward a proposal at a meeting on Sept. 17 that no farm land be used for wind turbines. Instead they would be erected on bog and non-farming land.

    IRISH FARMERS JOURNAL
    14th Sept 2013
    Pg 13

    WESTMEATH CO CO PLAN WIND FARM 'STERILISATION'

    Draft proposals being brought forward by Westmeath County Council are seeking a 'sterilisation' of farm land for use by wind turbines. The council's proposals want no farm land to be used for turbines. Instead they would be erected on bog and non-farming land.
    The county council is meeting next Tuesday, 17 September; to discuss the proposals.
    However, IFA South Leinster vice-president Jer Bergin has rejected the notion, saying a 'robust planning system' should be allowed to run its course.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Gaybrook-Residents-Against-Wind-Turbines/468756880353


  • #199
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,978 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Next it'll be no slurry
    No dairy farms
    No tractors on roads

    I wonder about the legality of that proposal ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #200
    Lambofdave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Lambofdave


    Manoffeeling wrote: »
    You can interpret it whatever way you want, but I think it's a bribe.

    Why ask a question if you don't like the answer.


  • #201
    Lambofdave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Lambofdave


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Next it'll be no slurry
    No dairy farms
    No tractors on roads

    I wonder about the legality of that proposal ...

    No slurry within 10 mt of a river and certainly no cattle drinking from streams rivers etc.

    Those are already being looked for by some environmental groups.


  • Advertisement
  • #202
    Manoffeeling
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Manoffeeling


    Lambofdave wrote: »
    Why ask a question if you don't like the answer.




    “Judge a man by his questions rather than by his answers.”
    ― Voltaire


  • #203
    Sharpshooter82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Sharpshooter82


    Lambofdave wrote: »
    No slurry within 10 mt of a river and certainly no cattle drinking from streams rivers etc.

    Those are already being looked for by some environmental groups.
    More money from the water meters then


  • #204
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    Sharpshooter82 wrote: »
    More money from the water meters then

    Was in at the county council meeting tonight for the vote........for the difference windfarms are practically finished in Westmeath,

    Midland tribune said today that offaly is open for wind turbines in the new Co. development plan.....two adjoining counties


  • #205
    Sharpshooter82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Sharpshooter82


    rancher wrote: »
    Was in at the county council meeting tonight for the vote........for the difference windfarms are practically finished in Westmeath,

    Midland tribune said today that offaly is open for wind turbines in the new Co. development plan.....two adjoining counties
    so none will be built in westmeath so


  • #206
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    Sharpshooter82 wrote: »
    so none will be built in westmeath so

    Most people will be pleased I suppose, wasn't too bother myself but I think the council leap frogging the planning process is wrong


  • #207
    Sharpshooter82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Sharpshooter82


    rancher wrote: »
    Most people will be pleased I suppose, wasn't too bother myself but I think the council leap frogging the planning process is wrong
    Many people around here wont give a rats


  • #208
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    rancher wrote: »
    Most people will be pleased I suppose, wasn't too bother myself but I think the council leap frogging the planning process is wrong

    +1

    And what does it mean for farmers down the line in years to come?
    Basically the CoCo are telling farmers what they can and cannot do on the land that the farmers own. Someone will come back here and say that they have been doing that all along - but in this case, Wind Turbines were allowed under the Westmeath County Development Plan and every councillor voted in favour of them. Now, just because they have been lobbied by a small number of people, they have changed their mind. How would farmers feel if the slurry spreading period was cut in half because the councillors were lobbied against it by a number of (non farming) rural dwellers because they didn't like the smell???? It's pretty much the same thing!

    If a farmer chooses to do something in the future with his land that it sustainable, non polluting, but profit making - can the councillors choose to prevent him from doing it without having an open and honest debate about it and carrying out proper studies on it just because a small lobby group pressure them?

    It has set a very poor precident which could impact of farmers all across the country IMO. Not just on the issue of wind turbines, but anything that environmentalists may get a bee in their bonnet about!


  • #209
    Sharpshooter82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Sharpshooter82


    reilig wrote: »
    +1

    And what does it mean for farmers down the line in years to come?
    Basically the CoCo are telling farmers what they can and cannot do on the land that the farmers own.

    If a farmer chooses to do something in the future with his land that it sustainable, non polluting, but profit making - can the councillors choose to prevent him from doing it without having an open and honest debate about it and carrying out proper studies on it just because a small lobby group pressure them?

    It has set a very poor precident which could impact of farmers all across the country IMO. Not just on the issue of wind turbines, but anything that environmentalists may get a bee in their bonnet about!
    It wasnt envirnmentalistd that were against the turbines mainly it was all residents in the areas. These things were going to be a nightmare. The council were bound to crack under the strain as there were marchs every odd day around here over them. Im not sorry they are not happening and i can speak for at least 75% of all farmers that i know aswell


  • #210
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Sharpshooter82 wrote: »
    It wasnt envirnmentalistd that were against the turbines mainly it was all residents in the areas. These things were going to be a nightmare. The council were bound to crack under the strain as there were marchs every odd day around here over them. Im not sorry they are not happening and i can speak for at least 75% of all farmers that i know aswell

    It was environmentalists who produced the studies which claimed that thousands of acres would be covered with concrete and fed these studies to the locals even though they were fake. It was the environmentalists who created reports about noise and fed them to the public - even though they were totally inaccurate. Some of the stuff spoke about at public meetings about the wind turbines in Westmeath was so far off the wall that the people who came up with it must have been on a double dose of wacky backy!!

    What if the same started making up silly stuff about the everyday things that we do as farmers? If you print stuff in local media, most people will believe it whether it is true or not! I read the westmeath papers and there was a lot of fiction printed in them which lead to ordinary people putting pressure on councillors, TD's and other decision makers.

    I don't give a fup about the wind turbines, but the fact that they were able to do this means that it could be done again for something which has a major impact on farmers!!


  • Advertisement
  • #211
    rancher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭rancher


    rancher wrote: »
    Most people will be pleased I suppose, wasn't too bother myself but I think the council leap frogging the planning process is wrong

    Was really disappointed last night, put huge work into this over the last few days...... this is a huge infringement on farmers property rights, it doesn't matter if a planning application is thrown out, as long as its done by competent planners..... this is not about windmills for me, but about farmers rights,
    t


Advertisement