I need feminism because...

Scarinae · 03-09-2013 04:30PM

"She’s the mother of a young child as well and, you know, that in itself doesn’t look great" - wtf? :mad:

I personally think carrying someone into a car park and raping them "doesn't look great". Or making apologies for convicted rapists and blaming the victim "doesn't look great".

Frito · 03-09-2013 11:37PM

Samaritan's volunteer?

Did they not tell him about Garda clearance?

Must be horrible for the young woman in question having this in the news again. I hope she's getting on ok.

strobe · 04-09-2013 08:07AM

Pretty sure the comment about her being a mother was implying "it must have been embarassing for the mother of a young child being caught having sex down a lane" rather than "she has a kid, therefore must be a slut".

Ambersky · 04-09-2013 10:53AM

It must have been embarrassing getting caught having sex down a lane...
is that what the priest meant, are you sure strobe.
Did he not mean maybe that it was embarrassing getting caught being raped down a lane after having been dragged to a more secluded place behind some bins. Would that make the comment more understandable

Any kind of shaming of the woman in question is completely unacceptable. Trying to justify clarify or make more reasonable the shaming of this woman is also unacceptable.
Why I need feminism, I havent got the words, but this isnt the place to look for it, its attack after attack or else the more subtle form or correction and clarification after clarification

the victim finds herself shunned in her community, being refused service in the local chip shop, and being referred to by upstanding locals as an “alleged” victim.
And why? Was there, perhaps, some ambiguity about the case? Some lack of evidence which led to Danny Foley being wrongly convicted? No. There was CCTV footage of him carrying the woman to a rubbish skip at the back of the nightclub where he worked.
According to (broadsheet) newspaper reports, the victim had bruising consistent with being dragged along the ground, and further marks to her wrists. He was discovered leaning over her, as she lay half-naked, by police. Foley had initially denied taking the woman to the secluded area claiming that he found her there, referring to her as “yer wan”. Foley had to retract this version of events when confronted with the CCTV evidence.

http://gombeennation.blogspot.ie/2009/12/danny-foley-and-listowels-shame.html

This is how the woman has said she feels about the situation, how she is being spoken about and treated.

The Kerry woman at the centre of the court case in which a priest was a character witness for a convicted sex offender has been speaking about her ordeal.

The Kerry Rape and Sexual Abuse Centre said Fr Sheehy's intervention in this case had a devastating effect on the victim and that he should not have done it.

The victim has not been identified, but she told the court that Listowel is a small town and everybody knew it was her.

She said she felt she was being judged there every day just for telling the truth.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1219/125583-listowel/

Shame Shame Shame.

seenitall · 04-09-2013 11:07AM

Ambersky wrote: »

It must have been embarrassing getting caught having sex down a lane...
is that what the priest meant, are you sure strobe.
Did he not mean maybe that it was embarrassing getting caught being raped down a lane after having been dragged to a more secluded place behind some bins. Would that make the comment more understandable

I think strobe is right. The guy is essentially saying "She being a mother and all, she should know better than to have sex in alleyways, no better than yer common slut." The point of the comment is to implicitly deny that a rape has taken place. In fact it is so unimaginable and out of the question that a rape has taken place, that it's not even worth addressing, so we should address her shameful behaviour as a mother and a role-model to a young child instead.

04-09-2013 11:31AM

She’s the mother of a young child as well and ... that in itself doesn’t look great.

It being in the same sentence as the mention of the fact that she's the mother of a young child implies, to me, that it's that fact "that in itself doesn't look great".

Ambersky · 04-09-2013 11:36AM

Of course the gist of what the priest is saying is the woman is shameful, of course he is denying rape, thats what I was saying in my post.
I was being ironic when I said the priest must have meant the woman would be embarrassed getting caught being raped down a lane rather than "having sex" down a lane. She clearly wasnt having sex and that is why I responded to strobes interpretation.

I dont think it is useful trying to find out whether the priest or local people think she is shameful for being down a lane, for having a child, for being a slut or just for being a woman. All this splitting hairs over what the priest said or meant is taking away from what happened.

What I am against is people doing damage limitation by making what the priest is saying more understandable or acceptable and perhaps making people think the woman may indeed have been in the wrong or at least partly to blame.

iwantmydinner · 04-09-2013 11:51AM

strobe wrote: »

Pretty sure the comment about her being a mother was implying "it must have been embarassing for the mother of a young child being caught having sex down a lane" rather than "she has a kid, therefore must be a slut".

Eh, she wasn't having sex down a lane, she was being raped down a lane. Jesus H Christ.

strobe · 04-09-2013 12:51PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Eh, she wasn't having sex down a lane, she was being raped down a lane. Jesus H Christ.

Yes, of course. But from the perspective of the priest lad in his comments.

iwantmydinner · 04-09-2013 12:55PM

strobe wrote: »

Yes, of course. But from the perspective of the priest lad in his comments.

I have no interest in the perspective of the priest.

strobe · 04-09-2013 12:57PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

I have no interest in the perspective of the priest.

Fair enough... carry on so.

meeeeh · 04-09-2013 02:22PM

It would be interesting to know to what group in society the rapist and the victim belong in this case. I'm guessing one is sort of middle class and the other is not.

Das Kitty · 04-09-2013 02:39PM

iwantmydinner wrote: »

I have no interest in the perspective of the priest.

The discussion was over what he meant by his comments. No one was defending him, we were just musing over which exact category of offensively wrong he was. (Probaly all of them)

I said it at the time of the trial and I'll said it again now, those fcukers and all who support them should be ashamed of themselves.

04-09-2013 02:51PM

meeeeh wrote: »

It would be interesting to know to what group in society the rapist and the victim belong in this case. I'm guessing one is sort of middle class and the other is not.

In a country area it will be more about the... coming form a respectable family thing.

seenitall · 04-09-2013 02:53PM

Das Kitty wrote: »

I said it at the time of the trial and I'll said it again now, those fcukers and all who support them should be ashamed of themselves.

More than that, this 'Father' should rightfully be challenged and exposed on his disgusting comments. The cowardice of stirring siht by employing not-so-subtle implications and sly digs, because he knows his audience and knows that calling her a slut and a liar outright, would be going too far. Nonetheless, that is exactly what he is calling her, and calling on his flock to follow suit, by doing so (which seems to be working admirably well, going by the accounts about the woman in question being shunned in the shops, etc)

Pigs will fly before his authority and the last word on morality in the community is challenged, though.

meeeeh · 04-09-2013 03:17PM

mariaalice wrote: »

In a country area it will be more about the... coming form a respectable family thing.

I agree.

Somebody from working class estate, a traveler vs. someone whose family is in the same parish for the last 500 years at least is more of a distinction that I had in mind.

iwantmydinner · 04-09-2013 04:06PM

Das Kitty wrote: »

The discussion was over what he meant by his comments. No one was defending him, we were just musing over which exact category of offensively wrong he was. (Probaly all of them)

I said it at the time of the trial and I'll said it again now, those fcukers and all who support them should be ashamed of themselves.

I absolutely know no one was defending him. To be honest, I think I'm being a bit obtuse and just refusing to even contemplate that someone could view the crime, the perpetrator and the victim in the way that priest does, which doesn't lend itself to my being able to make any sort of worthwhile contribution to a discussion on the topic.

meeeeh · 04-09-2013 04:28PM

The problem is that it was not just the priest. If there were 50 people in court I'm guessing there were a lot more out of court that shared their opinion. Small towns where everyone knows everybody can be extremely hostile, especially if the victim is not "one of them".

clairefontaine · 04-09-2013 04:41PM

seenitall wrote: »

More than that, this 'Father' should rightfully be challenged and exposed on his disgusting comments. The cowardice of stirring siht by employing not-so-subtle implications and sly digs, because he knows his audience and knows that calling her a slut and a liar outright, would be going too far. Nonetheless, that is exactly what he is calling her, and calling on his flock to follow suit, by doing so (which seems to be working admirably well, going by the accounts about the woman in question being shunned in the shops, etc)

Pigs will fly before his authority and the last word on morality in the community is challenged, though.

How is tis anything but utter bigotry against single mothers. Unless your validated by a man with a ring on your finger your just a whore.

Whatever moron.

seenitall · 04-09-2013 05:11PM

Interesting point to consider, cf. Tbh, it hasn't crossed my mind at all, but I can easily imagine him having a different take on the whole thing were the woman more 'respectable' (i.e. married). It would go well with the general flavour of the ideology he represents.

clairefontaine · 04-09-2013 05:19PM

seenitall wrote: »

Interesting point to consider, cf. Tbh, it hasn't crossed my mind at all, but I can easily imagine him having a different take on the whole thing were the woman more 'respectable' (i.e. married). It would go well with the general flavour of the ideology he represents.

Absolutely. If she were married, the sexual prejudice wouldn't be there. The rape would be acknowledged because the perceived pre disposition to sexual abandon wouldn't be there.

I'm bursting with a very angry rant dying to come out, but I don't know if I'm angry at him or at the paper for publishing such a backwards and dangerous perspective.

Millicent · 04-09-2013 05:27PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Absolutely. If she were married, the sexual prejudice wouldn't be there. The rape would be acknowledged because the perceived pre disposition to sexual abandon wouldn't be there.

I'm bursting with a very angry rant dying to come out, but I don't know if I'm angry at him or at the paper for publishing such a backwards and dangerous perspective.

To be fair to the paper, that sort of gobshitery needs to be put out in the open, if only to hold it to the ridicule it so wholly deserves.

Morag · 05-09-2013 05:34PM

Dickwolves.

IvyTheTerrible · 06-09-2013 08:13AM

Because of sites like this article is talking about:
http://www.midilibre.fr/2013/09/06/un-site-de-conseils-en-seduction-signale-a-la-justice-pour-incitation-au-viol,753414.php
(Sorry it's in French but the gist is, that this site has seduction lessons including gems like "Show her she doesn't really have a choice" and "Don't ask her if you can penetrate her like a wild animal, do it").

06-09-2013 11:10AM

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Because of sites like this article is talking about:
http://www.midilibre.fr/2013/09/06/un-site-de-conseils-en-seduction-signale-a-la-justice-pour-incitation-au-viol,753414.php
(Sorry it's in French but the gist is, that this site has seduction lessons including gems like "Show her she doesn't really have a choice" and "Don't ask her if you can penetrate her like a wild animal, do it").

Christ on a bike, this is worth translating:

Comment bien baiser : les trois secrets du hard sexe

Elle se plaint? pas pour longtemps! C'est un phénomène naturel de rejet de l'autorité, mais une fois cette barrière franchie, elle s'abandonnera à vous et vous demandera de la défoncer ... c'est ça en fait la véritable notion du fameux 'bien baiser'.

Ne lui demandez pas si vous pouvez la pénétrer comme un animal sauvage, faites-le! ... Montrez-lui qu'elle n'a pas vraiment le choix ... Ne vous refusez rien ... Prenez le contrôle du rapport sexuel et pensez que votre masculinité passe par des coups de boutoirs infligés

How to fúck : the three secrets of "hard" sex.

She's complaining? Not for long! It's a natural phenomenon to reject authority, but once the barrier is broken down, she'll give herself to you and demand that you screw her ... in fact this is the true idea of the famous "well fúcked".

Don't ask her if you can penetrate her like a wild animal, do it! ... Show her that she has no choice ... Deny yourself nothing ... Take control of the sex and imagine that your masculinity is channelling through the battering inflicted.

Have I got that last bit right?!

The site receives 20,000 visitors a day and the FB page has 17,000 followers.

meeeeh · 06-09-2013 11:14AM

Ok I don't even bother with mummy porn but as far as I know it a lot of it has the same drivel from female perspective.

06-09-2013 12:05PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Ok I don't even bother with mummy porn but as far as I know it a lot of it has the same drivel from female perspective.

Sorry, should have clarified, it's not porn it's a guide to "seduction".

Morag · 06-09-2013 12:35PM

:mad:

iwantmydinner · 06-09-2013 12:39PM

^^ Oh FFS.

The list of things wrong with that tweet is long, but everyone on this thread already knows what they are. Rage!

meeeeh · 06-09-2013 01:29PM

That one us an idiot. A single idiot.

I need feminism because...

Comments