Off Topic This Thread Now Closed For Business

gnfnrhead · 31-08-2013 12:36AM

I got the same thing with the dole last time I was on it. Got paid an extra week because it was already sent out when I signed off. Got a bill about a month later telling me I owed them nearly €200. Paid it back bit by bit. Better to keep it all above board just in case you need to sign on again. If you fcuk them around, they can do the same back when you need them.

There is no incentive to work. I know people who left school and signed on straight away. Havent worked a day in their life but get the dole, a medical card, bus pass, the whole lot. On the other end, I also know people who have worked for 30 or 40 years, get let go, and have to be means tested before they can sign on.

"Never worked? Come! We'll give you everything! No questions asked!"
"You worked for 40 years? Hah, why did you do that? Let's see how little we can give you now."

Ass backwards.

GTR63 · 31-08-2013 12:41AM

connemara man wrote: »

There was a period that I had started work and wasnt sure if it was going to be permanent or not so I didnt sign of properly.. Its more the its the last thing on top of a stressful week thats annoyed mé about ut

Was it the first week where you have to work a week in hand to then get it the week after or was it work experience?

CastorTroy · 31-08-2013 12:49AM

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

*hic*

So settling in okay then?

Tinie · 31-08-2013 12:57AM

gnfnrhead wrote: »

There is no incentive to work. I know people who left school and signed on straight away. Havent worked a day in their life but get the dole, a medical card, bus pass, the whole lot. On the other end, I also know people who have worked for 30 or 40 years, get let go, and have to be means tested before they can sign on.

"Never worked? Come! We'll give you everything! No questions asked!"
"You worked for 40 years? Hah, why did you do that? Let's see how little we can give you now."

Ass backwards.

This actually happened my Dad. He was let go after 25 years~ in a job as they were cost cutting and went to sign on until he got back working. Took ages to get it sorted and got very little given to him. Here is a man who's worked 30+ years and paid thousands in taxes and screwed over like that. Then you see lazy 18 or 20 year old kids who sign on the minute they leave secondary and get the full 190 p/w and extras only to spend it on computer games and booze as their too lazy to get up off their backside and look for work or go to college, then theyfeck off to australia or canada after they get fed up of living with their parents.

There is work out there now if you look hard enough and put in the effort. Its not as bad as it was a few years ago. Its becoming a bit of an excuse now for lots of lazy people on the dole, to say "there is no work out there, might as well claim dole for the foreseeable future".

I know guys in their mid twenties who have been on the dole for years, who live with their parents (that would be hell just thinking about it) but get the €190 p/w, only to spend it on cars and computer games. They refuse to do a course or apply for work. Your dole should be cut in half if you refuse work or a college course. I'll never understand the appeal of doing nothing every day, especially considering lots of third level courses are free in this country for certain people.

It really pissed me off as my dad got very depressed when he couldn't get work so had to lots of nothing basically to pass the time, and money was tight for a while. He eventually got working again after nearly 2 years out of work.

GTR63 · 31-08-2013 01:44AM

My dad is in a similar spot he's on the disability allowance (think thats what they call it). His two knees, back & hip are all on various levels of fücking totalled & every once in a while they dick about with him. He got "reported" recently as being able to work despite him being on the loooong waiting list for 2 knee replacements. I have my theory on who reported him but it annoyed me a lot that he had to jump through hoops to prove that at nearly 60 his condition is not exactly improving

Reganio 2 · 31-08-2013 02:28AM

Yeah its a nightmare I work now but for a while after college I wasn't but I was apparently too young to get €100 they offered me €60 but it was my 21st a few weeks later so just waited. Asked about disability benefit and the girl basically laughed in my face and said what's wrong with you why do you think you would be entitled to that. I told her Oh I don't know could be the fact that I am pretty much deaf or the fact that I can't walk properly (Was on crutches at the time due to an operation) and am due a hip replacement in the next 10 years. She got serious when she knew I wasn't happy but basically just dismissed it all cause I can hear well enough with a hearing aid that I got no support in paying for... Figure out for yourself how an unemployed kid with no experience in work is meant to be able to pay for a hearing aid on €60 a week.

Worst part was my dad's job was being closed down around that time so he was unemployed. I was told oh we will have to means test you when that happens. Just so backward.

Thankfully I got a job as a cleaner not too long after so I was on my own 2 feet then. Worst part is I was earning €180 working 5 days a week people are earning that on the dole now why would you bother working? That's why I don't like this their are no jobs work as a cleaner somewhere, anywhere and then work your way up. But no most people think ew that's disgusting and below me. But are happy being on the dole, horrible attitude.

Lord TSC · 31-08-2013 07:58AM

Digitalism wrote: »

Which is only fair. You'd be surprised how many don't tell them and do work on the side with also collecting the dole. Thats very poor form, considering lots of families around the country barely making ends meet.

Oh yeah, fully agree. I always find it amusing that when I go in and tell them I've worked a day, they look at me as if to say "Really? And you're telling us? Jesus, just stay quiet!" They seem shocked I'm honest enough to tell them.

Not that those days come round much any more. Which leads me to...

There is work out there now if you look hard enough and put in the effort. Its not as bad as it was a few years ago. Its becoming a bit of an excuse now for lots of lazy people on the dole, to say "there is no work out there, might as well claim dole for the foreseeable future".

I know guys in their mid twenties who have been on the dole for years, who live with their parents (that would be hell just thinking about it) but get the €190 p/w, only to spend it on cars and computer games. They refuse to do a course or apply for work. Your dole should be cut in half if you refuse work or a college course. I'll never understand the appeal of doing nothing every day, especially considering lots of third level courses are free in this country for certain people.

...this. I'm going to be honest, I resent the **** out of thoughts like this, and while I don't want this to degenerate into an After Hours special, I do want to respond.

At the moment, I'm 26 and living at home and I'm on the dole. Been out of Uni 3 years now. Up until this time last year, I was at least getting the odd bit of sub work in schools, a day here, a week there. But nothing consistent and certainly nothing I could live on.

The idea that it's become easier to find jobs is baffling; in the education sector alone, sub work is nearly non-existent now, actual jobs ARE non-existent, and the HR agreement being discussed will finish off any that are left. Seriously the HR agreement will physically put an end to the few jobs that newly qualified teachers can get. I've also spent the last year looking through job sites, newspapers....unless you speak a foreign language or have years of experience, the jobs out there are very, very limited.

I live in Drogheda, an area which already had high levels of unemployment before the bubble burst. And while I know there are some who leave school at 18 and see benefits as a lifestyle choice rather than a support system while you look for work, that doesn't change the fact that the jobs are not there in the town now. Even my local Dunnes Stores, for instance, are laying off more and more people rather than taking people in. Shops which used to have min. wage jobs are turning people down by the bucket load.

The unemployment figures are that bad, the government are trying to hide them. That's not an exaggeration, it's been discussed a bit in the media this week, as the government have stopped asking people to sign on so they don't have to disclose how many people are signing on. Likewise, trying to find an actual number on how many people are emigrating is difficult too, though yesterday I read that one person leaves the country in search of work every six minutes. (>>See article here<<). Are those figures so high because people are so lazy? Are people leaving the country cause they are too lazy to look here, or is it simply they have looked and can't find anything?

The problem for me isn't a lack of courses (I have four different qualifications after my name), nor a lack of looking. As a result, I do resent being called "lazy".

Bounty Hunter · 31-08-2013 08:43AM

CastorTroy wrote: »

So settling in okay then?

Ha well with regards the bit you quoted lets just say I'm in training. I'm a little weird as in I never liked beer, always drank whiskey, other spirits, cider or stout (in that order) but now in Munich inalmostvfeel like i have to get on the beers (lager).

Otherwise this seems like a really nice place especially in comparison to what I just left (shanghai) so much green, cleaner and friendlier), but its still early days.

TSC I fully get what your saying re: teaching work, I used to get loads of sub work in primary schools around 5 years ago, they were desperate for people then and all you technically needed was a degree of any kind to sub such was the demand but now for individualnteaching jobs schools get over 100 teachers applying inc people who often already have an in with the school / management so it can be nigh on impossible to get work.

If you are a teacher and have as you said 4 different qualifications, have you ever taught about teaching abroad (quite a few of the people i went to secondary with who are now teachers went to england as the job opportunities there a good bit higher) or as a English teacher abroad, have an experience living/travelling somewhere interesting and especially with qualifications already you could find places that'd take you with no experience even some would offer you the tefl cert as part of a job offer if you didn't want to pay to do a proper course at home first.

Not saying there would def be more opportunities in the uk than in Ireland or the teaching English is the greatest in the world but my dad is actually a principal in Ireland and has spoken of how hard it is for new (those without lots of experience) teachers a lot and I was living at home jobless before I left for Asia and now if I ever come back permanently should be more employable with many years uninterrupted working experience of a type that stands out on a cv (Taiwan, Germany etc) plus improved language abilities. Hopefully if that day comes things will actually have improved at home job wise

DM_7 · 31-08-2013 08:50AM

Plenty on the Dole who don't want to be of all ages.

The second language course that BH mentioned makes much more sense than paying people with no real commitments to stay at home.

Hearing about people like the lad on Matt Cooper during the week is going to make people be pissed off. Gets €188 to live at home with his parents, has to give his Ma 50 euro a week. The rest he can spend on what he likes. I would love to have almost €140 a week to spare. Then as said older people who worked and paid tax all of their life get **** all money.

The whole system is messed up.

31-08-2013 09:16AM

Wow I opened up a can of worms here... It was during my week in hand period as at the time I was only doing half days and it wasnt until the Monday after I knew id be there for the rest of the summer.. Im not going to fight it
I work in the tv industry and we find extremely difficult to find work and those who are sole traders because they go from gig to gig are not entitled any dole so the system is flawed but its the one we have

gnfnrhead · 31-08-2013 09:24AM

The majority of jobs that people work to get (teaching as above for example) require various levels of experience before they will even consider you. I did engineering and any job that I could do, requires experience first. Easily 98% of jobs advertised say something like minimum 3-5 years needed. The 2% that don't specify, get hundreds if not thousands of applications. If you have no experience but someone else who applies does, guess who they are going to be more interested in. Not impossible, but highly unlikely. The job I'm doing now has nothing to do with engineering. Saying that, I really like the job so would be happy to do it for quite some time to come.

Never expected a debate like this in the wrestling forum

cena · 31-08-2013 10:53AM

Ireland has way too may teachers in ireland and not enough jobs out there for them. Its time to slow down the making of new teachers in ireland.

so many come out from college and no teaching jobs for them . Alot than leave the country to find work

Tinie · 31-08-2013 11:00AM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The problem for me isn't a lack of courses (I have four different qualifications after my name), nor a lack of looking. As a result, I do resent being called "lazy".

I wasn't directly talking about you, I was talking about a few people I know of who get dole to pretty much spend on luxuries.

But on the topic of work not being available, i've seen lots of ads for jobs looking for cleaners and manual/maintenance work. But lots seem to think they are above work like that. I'd take a weekly job of cleaning for triple the amount you get on the dole for doing nothing every day of the week. Maybe its different in drogheda, but down around here there is a decent bit of work to be got and you always here on the radio of people looking for employees. No one can deny that there is a very big chunk of people on the dole who have no interest in work and would rather stay on the dole their whole life, and those need to have the dole cut in half asap. When you see that the dole is £60 or so in england, the fact that its €200 here is mind boggling.

As others have said, have you considered going abroad to look for work in the teaching sector? At 26 years old, and as you said you can't find work anywhere here, I think you may need to seriously consider it before its too late as you need experience in that job. I know a guy who basically waltzed into an primary school english teaching job in Toronto I think it was and is earning very good money now but this was about 5 or so years ago now so times might have changed.

Digitalism · 31-08-2013 11:17AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx2RVfdLyPA

Lord TSC · 31-08-2013 11:58AM

On the subject of moving abroad...
There's two things I'd say there. One, I've spoken about personal problems at home a bit on here, some of you knowing more than others about my relationship with a family member. Things have gotten worse on that front, and if I'm being 100% honest, there's no way I'd be comfortable leaving the country.

That said, I also really get annoyed at the "Well if life is so tough, why don't you emigrate" argument. Don't get me wrong, I get for some and many, the idea of getting out of this country is hugely appealing, and I've always admired you BH with how you've done employment wise. I've got nothing against those who do step up and out, and move abroad to get jobs.

I just have a problem with people who don't stop and think "Jesus, it's crazy how as a country, we're shoving our youth out the door" and instead advocate moving abroad. Again, I'm not necessarily having a go at anyone here, but from day one of my degree being done, it's felt like the government want me gone, and people think there's something wrong with me for not going; not because I'm damaging my own life but because by staying, they see me as damaging their's somehow.

The government pumped about 30k into me by way of Uni fees and grants, yet rather than try and get back some of their investment, the idea is to bull me out of the country. Meanwhile, my response would be this; I'm Irish, I grew up in Ireland. My family are in Ireland, my friends are in Ireland and my life is in Ireland. While I certainly get the appeal of moving away, I'm not going to be herded out the door. If I go, it will be in my time. Until then, it's this country I want to forge my way in, this country I want to build my life in.

On the subject of experience...
Worth pointing out I actually do have a fair bit of experience on my C.V. More than most people I went to Uni with and finished with at the same time. As far as teaching C.V.s go, I'd say I've got a pretty decent one. It's not experience that's the problem in the teaching sector right now though.

cena wrote: »

Ireland has way too may teachers in ireland and not enough jobs out there for them. Its time to slow down the making of new teachers in ireland.

so many come out from college and no teaching jobs for them . Alot than leave the country to find work

Certainly doesn't help nowadays. When you look how the Gardai are limited by what they need, while 1000 new teachers are churned out each year to compete in an already over-saturated market, it's definitly something that needs to be addressed. But it's too big a money maker for the colleges to give up, so until the government step in and do something, won't be changes there.

Tinie wrote: »

I wasn't directly talking about you, I was talking about a few people I know of who get dole to pretty much spend on luxuries.

Fair enough, but when you specify a 20-something guy who is living with parents playing games, that's me.

Personally, I don't think "my group" are the problems when it comes to benefits though. Personally, I think the problems are the crowd who have 4 kids by the age of 21, who claim not just unemployment but every other benefit possible, who get given houses and every other chance they can, but take those chances as a lifestyle choice rather than as a support. They walk out with 5 times more than me when they go to the post office, but they aren't targeted at all.

For me, targeting the people who have finished college or Uni and can't find a job because the country has gone down the toilet, while there's people who drop out of school first chance, and deliberately decide to live on benefits for life, is crazy. There's one guy who I know who dropped out at 16, had three kids by 21, has been in and out of jail numerous times....but is given a free house to live in?

Meanwhile, because I tried to do things the "right" way, getting a good education, trying to better myself...well, I can take the next plane abroad, I can. I sometimes wonder why I didn't just knock someone up when I was a teenager and drop out of school. I'd probably be living a far more well off life...

Mick Murdock · 31-08-2013 12:23PM

Would you consider doing something else entirely, TSC? Give up on teaching completely?

Judging by friends experience, teaching in Ireland looks like a lost cause for many in the near future.

D.Q · 31-08-2013 01:11PM

Mother of God. Just did my first mma class. I'm hurting in places that I didn't even know were there. Some workout though

gnfnrhead · 31-08-2013 01:34PM

Just after being watching the dog trying to catch the birds out the back garden. He starts in the sitting room, laying down on the floor. When he see's them the head comes up and he watches for a few seconds before getting up and actually tip toeing towards the open back door. The birds are still up the other end of the garden, but he picks now to charge. They do be gone instantly but he does it every single time. He does so well but as soon as he steps out of the house, he charges and scares them off. He even jumps into the air after them. Great entertainment

D.Q wrote: »

Mother of God. Just did my first mma class. I'm hurting in places that I didn't even know were there. Some workout though

How's the falange?

Bounty Hunter · 31-08-2013 02:02PM

nobody knows your situation better than yourself TSC and im certainly not trying to push you out the door of Ireland and infact admire you more so for deciding you want to stay but would always suggest it (maybe even more so as a temp option) to someone especially if I dont know their full situation (honestly had kinda forgot the specific details of yours when I posted that) becuase I had a good experience doind so and probably better than I could have had staying in Ireland with a background in Media/teaching but not huge experience in either before I left.

Also completely agree on the madness that you described of the people who seem to mess up their lives (cant think of a better term and know thats not right) getting perhaps more than they deserve while those really trying are often not given the same assistance.

Lord TSC · 31-08-2013 02:29PM

Mick Murdock wrote: »

Would you consider doing something else entirely, TSC? Give up on teaching completely?

Judging by friends experience, teaching in Ireland looks like a lost cause for many in the near future.

Tbh, I'm 99% given up on teaching now. I have been looking for other jobs, but again I say, unless you've got 3 years experience or another language, there's very, very little. Even low paying jobs like waiters and the likes....3 years experience needed. I suppose they know there's people with that experience out there though.

nobody knows your situation better than yourself TSC and im certainly not trying to push you out the door of Ireland and infact admire you more so for deciding you want to stay but would always suggest it (maybe even more so as a temp option) to someone especially if I dont know their full situation (honestly had kinda forgot the specific details of yours when I posted that) becuase I had a good experience doind so and probably better than I could have had staying in Ireland with a background in Media/teaching but not huge experience in either before I left.

I'd love to have gotten into media, so I'm hugely jealous of you BH

But when I came out of my English degree, I was told it was nigh on impossible to get into, and that was a few years ago, so I can imagine things have gotten worse. And again being honest, if I could pick up my mother and brother and move them with me abroad, I'd be gone pretty quick. I'd still resent the hell out of the country though for creating an environment where the generation who didn't muck up the country are the ones being told to either live with the consequences or bugger off.

Also completely agree on the madness that you described of the people who seem to mess up their lives (cant think of a better term and know thats not right) getting perhaps more than they deserve while those really trying are often not given the same assistance.

Messed up definitely isn't the right term, since I find many know exactly what they are doing. Many know exactly what they are entitled to down to the penny, and then what they aren't entitled to but can sneak their way into anyway.

I remember speaking to one kid in a school I taught in last year, a really rough school. At the age of 14, she was quite happy to tell me her life goal was to get pregnant at 16, because then she knew she was set for life. The idea of even getting to the Leaving Cert was laughable to her, because she knew she could get taken care of and get paid for having the kid. Meanwhile, a good chunk of the teachers who were working part time there last year are gone now, some having to move abroad, and those who are still there are looking at the HR agreement knowing they'll be getting their passports ready soon as well. The priorities in this country are messed up (and it will get even more fun in 15-20 years when there's no high-earners paying the taxes needed to keep the country going).

D.Q wrote: »

Mother of God. Just did my first mma class. I'm hurting in places that I didn't even know were there. Some workout though

I'd love to do MMA training...only, you know, as you said, the hurting. :pac:

Mick Murdock · 31-08-2013 02:40PM

D.Q wrote: »

Mother of God. Just did my first mma class. I'm hurting in places that I didn't even know were there. Some workout though

I did about 12 classes a couple of years ago. You have to be hard as nails for that ****!

By the end of class 12 I literally could not function for a week! I thought I was in pretty decent shape too.

Gives you some (a little) appreciation for what wrestlers/fighters are going through day after day.

Bounty Hunter · 31-08-2013 02:51PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'd love to have gotten into media, so I'm hugely jealous of you BH But when I came out of my English degree, I was told it was nigh on impossible to get into, and that was a few years ago, so I can imagine things have gotten worse. And again being honest, if I could pick up my mother and brother and move them with me abroad, I'd be gone pretty quick. I'd still resent the hell out of the country though for creating an environment where the generation who didn't muck up the country are the ones being told to either live with the consequences or bugger off.

ha appreciate the jealousy but Im guessing I was only a year or two ahead of you and despite getting a degree in Media Production and a really good first job in Media (by first job standards) it didnt last long as that was when all the work dried up and it was last in first out and that was me then I couldnt even get work as a runner making the tea for people in roles like the one I had occupied as people with connections (usually), even more experience than myself (rarely) or people who dropped down to those positions instead of (just) losing their jobs took even those positions.

Moved into teaching when no jobs were going anywhere despite a long time searching in Ireland & England and was doing alright for myself with long term sub work but I think a lot of students had the same idea with teaching being seen as a long term stable government job etc and with sooo many people getting qualified in it there was suddenly that huge shift from teachers being in huge demand to teaching jobs being in huge demand hense I got quickly qualified in TEFL and moved to keep working.

Messed up definitely isn't the right term, since I find many know exactly what they are doing. Many know exactly what they are entitled to down to the penny, and then what they aren't entitled to but can sneak their way into anyway.

I remember speaking to one kid in a school I taught in last year, a really rough school. At the age of 14, she was quite happy to tell me her life goal was to get pregnant at 16, because then she knew she was set for life. The idea of even getting to the Leaving Cert was laughable to her, because she knew she could get taken care of and get paid for having the kid. Meanwhile, a good chunk of the teachers who were working part time there last year are gone now, some having to move abroad, and those who are still there are looking at the HR agreement knowing they'll be getting their passports ready soon as well. The priorities in this country are messed up (and it will get even more fun in 15-20 years when there's no high-earners paying the taxes needed to keep the country going).

Jaysus thats just plain sad, both that so many have had to move abroad but also that a young kid would think that way and that, that would be their ambition / goal for life. If that is the impression we are giving the youth of our country there is obviously a much bigger problem than I thought.

I'd love to do MMA training...only, you know, as you said, the hurting. :pac:

good a lighter note

would love to do the same myself but dont think this broken down and seriously unfit former Rugby player would stand a chance starting something like that these days. The missus cant even convince me to sign up / train to get involved in The Munich Marathon as I think it'd kill me :pac:

DM_7 · 31-08-2013 03:12PM

They were talking about College on the right Hook last week and an interesting point came up the Leaving Cert is just a college application process and Degrees, Masters etc are not worth much now compared to what they used to be. 27(irc) institutions providing third level education, 60% of students going to College's now. It used to be 4 colleges and 10% going to that level.

People are ending up coming out of college and doing jobs the leaving Cert could realistically get you. As mentioned we are still training up loads of Teachers, engineers etc but with no real job prospects at the end. People are getting trained to go abroad

Anyhow: MMA class - always imagined it would be tough going. I will stick with flinging some weights around and using the rowing machine.

jaykhunter · 31-08-2013 03:23PM

Where did you go do MMA? That one near Hogan's bar? How was it

cena · 31-08-2013 03:58PM

Brother has his masters, which I helped pay for. He can't get a job in it and is working in the sky call centre

rovert · 31-08-2013 04:56PM

Opened over here this week. Film critic Mark Kermode delivers the SMACKDOWN on it:

Anyone seen it?

cena · 31-08-2013 05:01PM

rovert wrote: »

Opened over here this week. Film critic Mark Kermode delivers the SMACKDOWN on it:

Anyone seen it?

I would like to. Is it a lads movie. My mother keeps going on she would like to see a movie but does not like going on her own

CastorTroy · 31-08-2013 06:06PM

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Ha well with regards the bit you quoted lets just say I'm in training. I'm a little weird as in I never liked beer, always drank whiskey, other spirits, cider or stout (in that order) but now in Munich inalmostvfeel like i have to get on the beers (lager).

Was over there in April for about a week visiting my brother. I'd say once you get used to the transport and all, you're flying. I don't expect him home at any point.

As for the dole, I was on stamps after college while looking for work and working a part time job which I was declaring. So only getting a couple days a week. Got a letter then saying I was being taken off the stamps unless I could prove I looked for work. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has applied for lots of work(for me it was computers) and never got any replies.
So I ended up losing it. Happened my mum as well. A nearly 60 year old woman who looks after kids some days during the week, declaring those days and lost it due to not being out looking for work.
So basically they punish the honest and reward the dishonest, which seems to be always the case.

On a side note, anyone know how to stop a cow mooing? Bit of land in my estate where there should be houses and someone decided to use it for their cows. One is constantly mooing all day!

DM_7 · 31-08-2013 06:12PM

I heard that Pain and Gain is based on a true story, that its so mad they stick a reminder in half way through to let you know its still based on a true story :pac:

cena · 31-08-2013 06:12PM

Give the cow a whip with a plastic pipe may stop it

Off Topic **This Thread Now Closed For Business**

Comments

Off Topic This Thread Now Closed For Business