Opt-out of the student union

Automatic membership of Students Unions is being questioned at the moment in both Ireland and the UK. What it results in is the SU never getting to explain to students why they should join the SU. Naturally, many students thus ignore the SU and when it comes to issues like rising fees or cuts to grants, they believe that the "SU people" will deal with that as they have never been spoken to about Union participation.

Also, I doubt it's just a feminist stance to be pro-choice?

I think pro-Yes means that the Union becomes pro-choice, which is essentially what all pro-choice people would want given the years of being scared to even admit you thought abortion should be an option in the case of rape, let alone as a woman's right to choose.

I imagine "full reproductive rights" means exactly what it says on the tin, all those rights available to a person who is engaged in sexual activity.

"Every available measure" means that the SU utilise all the platforms it has to realise such rights.

Seems very plain to me, though I have been reading explanations of these sentences on social media where questions have been raised.

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Are you blurring the line between SU and actual proper Unions? SU is just student stuff, it only relates to people who bother with the SU. It's not real politics no more than students are real humans.

Lol.

Honestly though, Students Unions were once one of the greatest agents of social change.

Fully agree it isn't 'real politics'...though a similar question could be raised about politics in Ireland in general....

I think the debate over "full reproductive rights" misses the point that the phrase was used to cover abortion as a right that is currently ignored by the SU. The SU do not currently give advice on how to get an abortion. Yes, this is largely due to the law and the fact you can't legally procure such a medical procedure on this island, but given the fact that legislation liberalising our current draconian law is on its way, information can then be provided in accordance with law.

Musing that the Student Health Unit might be "doing abortions" reminds me of a Russell Howard sketch where he talks about people who say things like "prisoners living in comfort in prison?! what next?! elephants driving buses?!"....or something like that. I very much doubt the services of the Health Unit will be affected by a Union stance, it isn't a hospital. Also, it could only "hand out" such pills if it was legal, which it isn't.

To be honest, unless there is a radical change in the NUIG SU,I can't see it following up on promises of supporting pro-choice marches, though I do think a lot of students will start going on them, the support for the motion is heartening.

isilidur1980 wrote: »

The problem with the student unions in Ireland now are that they are extremely weak. The student body have no real interest in the unions. The upcoming referendum on the abortion issue shows the inherent weakness now in the union. A feminist group can get 500 signatures and insist on a referendum. With only 3000-4000 votes going to be cast, they have huge power going into the referendum. The Unions are really at the mercy of groupings whose doctrines, although i respect, I do not agree with them and don't want to be represented by them either. If I believed in the feminist doctrine, i would join the feminist society.

surley that shows the strength of the union as it allows students to democratically raise issues

ps being pro choice is not only for feminists

isilidur1980 wrote: »

Why is there no opt-out mechanism for the student unions in Ireland? From what I understand it is the student unions themselves who decided that membership was mandatory. They will argue that this is due to the union being stronger if everyone is a part of them. I disagree with this point. It would benefit both the Unions and the students if the unions had to justify why people should be a part of them and match this with actions.
I am not a law student and so stand corrected on the next point. The constitution of Ireland offers us the right to associate. It implicitly offers the right to disassociate. The Universities Act has nothing stated explicitly regarding mandatory membership of Student Unions. If it did I would be guessing it could be struck down due to being unconstitutional. Why do the student unions feel they can override the constitutional rights of students in this country by not offering an opt-out mechanism?

It's unlikely to be unconstitutional anyway. 'Closed shop' workplaces are permitted under the Constitution. For example, when I worked in Penneys, all staff were members of the union Mandate. Presumably, the SU would come under the same heading: if you wish to attend the university, you have to accept membership of the representative association (the SU) although AFAIK this has never been challenged in court.

Ficheall wrote: »

Oh, so it's only women's rights? Bit ****ing sexist that, innit?
I know the referendum has passed, but it's a bit disappointing that not a single person knows what exactly the full reproductive rights are or what anyone was actually voting on.

I wonder if one ought to start a petition for a referendum to change the constitution to empower someone* in the SU to insist that any referenda held be written with some modicum of intelligence.


*I realise that the challenge would then be to find the intelligent person in the SU...

Women's rights...sexist. Yeah.

I think the vast majority knew what they were voting for, what the sentiment of the proposal was, that the Union include abortion as one of the reproductive rights it fights for. More students voted in the referendum compared to the other 3 elections, as in more students only requested the ballot for the referendum upon presenting themselves at a booth.
Honestly just think your splitting hairs, from what I heard from canvassers, that's what a lot of people thought and that was partially demonstrated in the 69% voting Yes.

PauricTheLodger wrote: »

I think it's quite the problem with a proposal for a referendum where people have to guess at the sentiment of what the proposal contains.. it's supposed to be spelt out as plain as day.. wasn't this the drama of the Childrens Referendum?

Keep splitting hairs lads, if you're not willing to accept that people did understand what they were voting on then there isn't really much more I can say to you.

Pro-Choice campaigners made a point of asking people what they thought "every available measure" meant and the majority were of the opinion that it meant all the facilities and platforms the SU utilises in the carrying out of its operations with regards to a campaign, e.g. fighting fees campaign etc. That is exactly what it meant. As for "full reproductive rights", it was pointed out to me that when a canvasser asked a person if they knew what it meant, they were slightly offended. They promptly explained that it meant all those rights which should be available to a woman including abortion. Emphasis on women because there isn't currently a massive struggle over autonomy men have over their own bodies.

Any more questions are really just designed to derail the fact it passed and to try and prove that even those who drafted it didn't know what it meant which is just not true.