Waterford Airport

To be honest the problem is that folks aren't prepared to pay to use the flights from their local airport that are there currently and spending 20million on a runway so that larger planes with larger capacities can run just doesnt sound right.

Regional airports in places like Luxembourg (which actually has 747 cargo planes based there too so they HAVE a big runway) run regional planes all over the place at prices that Waterford people would cringe at, but the connections are there, Lux-Munich 5 times a day for instance all ran by small planes.
Actually, theres loads of connections out of Munich or Luxembourg and similar airports ran by planes with similar capacity to say Aer Lingus regional which go to various destinations multiple times per day.
Theres nothing wrong with small planes and having smaller planes running more frequently means you are better connected than one 737 every day or other day.

Basically, either the business is there to be tapped or it isnt.
I'd love to see what the business plan is for Waterford airport because as it is locals dont value its convenient location in enough numbers to fill small planes so why should locals be any different should larger planes be stationed there?

EDIT: Translation to simple english -
folks from Waterford won't use their own airport so the solution is to spend 20million+ on upgrading the airport to see if maybe an airline decides to setup there with larger planes (and maybe Raynair wont blast them out of the water with loss making services funded by their 100s of milions of cash reserves) and maybe cheaper tickets would be offered which maybe will be viable for the airline in the longer term which maybe will be cheap enough to entice folks not to use Dublin or Cork.

Waterford City is circa 2hrs from both Dublin and Cork Airports. In my opinion that's not a huge time to travel to give yourself a wealth of flight option. Ergo Government funding would be much better spent on improving facilities at our existing main airports (another runway @ DUB) or else building infrastructure to allow easy access to the airports (like a Waterford - Cork motorway).

The land is bought and planning permission given (as far as I know), the only thing needed is someone to cough up about 20 million.

The land at the northern end was purchased last year and is now part of the airport site. The land to the south has been cpo'd recently so should be sorted soon. Planning will not be applied for til funding becomes available.

You could get to B737/A320 capable for alot less than that. 8-10 million would get you there quite easy i believe...the 20 odd million previously qouted was for supplementery stuff like extra taxiway, An ILS to Rwy 03, more hangerage, etc.. all things nice to have but not essential to landing a B737.

Everything needs to be upgraded. Terminal, Runway, taxiways, ramp space, navigation aids and lighting. However there was work going on our there the past couple of months, seems they have some sort of stuff done, wiring for lighting, clearing, etc. I'm not saying it is going ahead anytime soon, I think it's just a start to speed things up if they do get the money.

Everything needs to be upgraded. Terminal, Runway, taxiways, ramp space, navigation aids and lighting. However there was work going on our there the past couple of months, seems they have some sort of stuff done, wiring for lighting, clearing, etc. I'm not saying it is going ahead anytime soon, I think it's just a start to speed things up if they do get the money.

The plan was for a 2,200*45 meter runway but for a 737/a320 type you would only need about 1800 minimum. Which would obviously cost less.

The work done over the last few months was to install RESA's (Runway End Safety Area) at either end of the runway and too move the hill near the western side of the runway. This in turn will get the airport a step closer to the goal of the runway extension.

The plan was never for a 2,200 metre runway as that would involve moving a public road at the southern end. The plan was for an 1850m runway which would enable A320 flights to the south of spain. This would be too short for ryanairs B737s to everywhere bar the UK. But that maybe for a reason!!

As for flights anyway. Flybe will be announcing something for MAN soon I believe. No news on the LTN or and other London airport.

Yes i believe MAN to be announced next week. Still ironic that the main money making, no brainer of a route to London may be missing for the summer. Bloody logistics!!

EDIT: Translation to simple english -
folks from Waterford won't use their own airport so the solution is to spend 20million+ on upgrading the airport to see if maybe an airline decides to setup there with larger planes (and maybe Raynair wont blast them out of the water with loss making services funded by their 100s of milions of cash reserves) and maybe cheaper tickets would be offered which maybe will be viable for the airline in the longer term which maybe will be cheap enough to entice folks not to use Dublin or Cork.

People of the southeast do not use the airport as much as the should because of the ticket price, small propellor planes (misconception), and some of the other reasons already mentioned. Ryanair/AerLingus mainline would easliy fill their aicraft with a daily london perhaps twice daily if they could offer a day return service. A daily LPL/MAN and a 3/4 weekly birmingham plus holiday flights would all bring passengers figures from the 80,000 approx present to 350k/400k. This is turn raises the whole profile of the airport as people would now see it as a "proper" airport and would be more likely to use it for all flights thus allowing the likes of flybe or Aer Lingus regional come back in with their turboprops to supplement the main routes with flight to the places like Edinburgh and Bristol.

The airports main goal is not to turn a profit but to breakeven and stand on its own two feet. Its primary purpose is to support the development of business in the south east by providing direct links to the outside world which in turn will provide employment and all the benefits that follow. And also to provide links for inward tourists to choose the south east to holiday in and spend their money rather than Dublin, Cork the midwest becasue they are the regions easlily accessible.

3 major airports for a population of just 4.5 million is quite balanced.. The sad truth is, we can't have airports for every corner of this island with such a small population, especially not now.

It's much better to have major airports and then improve infrastructure to the airport than having airports for every city of 50,000. But I do agree that the roads from Waterford to Cork is awful and needs development.

Ah yes a typical answer from someone based a stones throwaway from the countrys main airport. Come back to me after travelling 2 hours to your airport a couple of times aweek and see if you still sing the same tune!

It wouldn't be for 50,000 it would be for a region. ie 400,000, and for industrial development inwardly. Not all journeys are for tourists

The southeast region has more than half million people and believe it or not with the new motorway and road network around Waterford people as far north as Nass can get door to door quicker using Waterford than Dublin! And before anyone asks this was calculated as part of a part of a university research project conducted by a student a couple of years go.

Waterford's passenger number almost halved in 2011 to what it was at peak levels because airlines cancelled their routes, surely they wouldn't cancel routes if there was a huge demand as you say. It now serves around 85,000 people a year.

The demand is there..for cheap air travel..just as it is in every other region. This demand is met in the other regions by the provision of jet capable runways who can cater for the Low cost carriers.

Even without the jet capable runway there is still a demand there was doing fine til the the carrier (AerArann) decided to meddle with the whole thing and made a mess of it. This is well documented elsewhere.

Kerry on the other hand being between an hour and a half away from ORK and SNN each direction still managed over 300,000 in 2011

Now i wonder why that is..maybe they have a jet capable runway!:rolleyes:

Teebor, believe it or not I have lived 2 hours away from an airport before I moved to Dublin.

Well done!

Aer Arann pulled out because the market simply wasn't there and they were having difficulties with pax numbers.


Quote:



‘Over recent months, the airline has conducted a root and branch evaluation of all routes. It was clear from this evaluation that our Waterford routes have not performed to a sustainable level.



Quote:



‘We have worked hard to overcome recent challenges, built a successful new partnership with Aer Lingus and grown our passenger numbers. If we are to protect and nurture these gains, we have got to concentrate resources on services that offer sustainable returns.

Thats the AerArann press statement :rolleyes:..of course their not going to say the truth which is what Jamie2k has just posted and is well known in aviation circles.

Having a jet capable runway doesn't ensure jets landing there. As it stands, tourist attractions in the South East is almost non existent compared to Kerry, Shannon and Cork

.

Yes thats correct. But its not all about tourists..their is approx 500,000 people whos closest airport is Waterford. The new M9 motorway works both ways. Yes it brings people of the South East closer to Dublin but it also brings the people from Kilkenny Carlow even Kildare closer to Waterford. Add the new City by-pass and new road to the airport then access should not be a problem. Though i do think the airport would fare better if it had been located in South Kilkenny buts thats not going to change now.

If Aer Arann couldn't fill their ATRs

See above

Flybe couldn't fill their Dash 8s or whatever aircraft they used with their 4 times a week service

Flybe had their own financial issues and like they have done in previous years they suspend services on some routes (Waterford was'nt the only one) for 6 weeks after christmas, the deadest time of the year. They are now back with the same schedule and from what i hear the first few flights have been nearly full..remember this is feb/mar! And there is strong rumours from a number of source that next week they will announce Manchester 4 weekly. I believe they would jump on Luton straight away if they had a presence there already but unfortunately logistics outrule that for the moment but hopefully something will come of it soon!

I don't see what makes you think airlines can fill 737s everyday

The Waterford-Luton route was the most profitable route in the whole AerArann network a couple of years back..offering 3 return flights a day at one stage on a 66 seat AT72..thats almost 200 seats each way with their "expensive" tickets..id say you would have no problem filling a Ryanair 189 seat B738.

Thats not including the amount of people locally who say to me they would fly from Waterford if it was a cheaper or if Ryanair flew from there. Alot of it is perception..if you have a B738/A320 using your airport people now percive you as a "real" airport and will always check your prices first and will find the cheap fares. Bar the solid base of regular passengers many people check maybe once when someone reminds them to try waterford..find the price a few quid dearer then go awy with that perception in their head that Waterford is always dearer and dont try again.

Irish Steve,
You mentioned: 'When Ryanair departed the ATR scene, another new airline nearly got going in Galway, with plans to also serve Waterford, but thats history.'

Would this be 'EUROWEST' Airlines???????...... I recall they had an office @ the petrol station across the road at the petrol station but they never got off the ground so to speak.

Regards,
Islanderre

Irish Steve wrote: »

Oh dear. Has everyone forgotten where Ryanair started up all those years ago

Even if "everyone" remembers, they were operating in a very different marketplace then. I still remember the early Ryanair vs. Aer Lingus ads and they were able to really hammer home the difference because for getting to England (or France) your choice was Aer Lingus or B&I (or Irish Ferries).

Now, any new operator has to compete with both Aer Lingus and Ryanair, not to mention smaller operators like Flybe and CityJet, and Irish Ferries (+/- rail-and-sail or Eurolines coach services). The travelling public has plenty of choice, so if an opeator offers nothing more imaginative than a flight from A to B, a typical passenger will choose on the basis of all kinds of unjustified assumptions (journey time vs. flight time; "small properllery planes" vs. jets; local vs. national).

One of the consistent "faults" that I see with regional airports is their obsession with trying to be a successful miniature version of their nearest full-size national airport. They succeed in persuading big-name carriers to fly some routes for a period of time, but these inevitably fail because the big guys have different priorities, and supporting regional economic development is not one of them. All this leads to a series of broken promises which does nothing to convince the local population that the next one is going to be kept.

If you're trying to run a business (or take a job) that depends on a regular and reliable connection to somewhere else, you're not going to build it around a service that might not last beyond one season, and that is exactly where the airport (Waterford or any other regional airport that wants to stand on its own two feet) needs to look for support and start talking to the new breed of innovative airlines that are taking to the skies.

LeftBase wrote: »

Knock stays open for a number of reasons. One being tourism in the West of Ireland and the above mentioned teary eyed Yanks etc. Another being stroke politics and the power of the church.

Rubbish, there's no evidence for either of those statements and reads more like your own prejudices opinion.

There's no evidence of any significant US traffic in to NOC, teary eyed or not. Tourism accounted for about 15% of use at the last report in 2008 though this may have grown in recent years as inbound Euro routes were added.

As for stroke politics, the exact opposite has been true for the last 15 years with agile, creative management allowing the airport to grow 5-10% annually and break-even several years with limited operational subsidy. Pilgrimage charters amounted to less than 2% of traffic a few years back, so what "power of the church" means I don't know.

The vast majority of traffic in the past has been VFR (visiting friends and relatives) predominantly UK based, and outbound leisure travel with a large sun holiday offering to Spain, Canaries.

Knock "stays open" for several reasons:
- Well run in last decade, tight ship, small staff single shift, focus on marketing
- Board take no fees, all profit reinvested in facility, regional development remit
- Self funding model with departure fee, offsets airline costs
- Low cost model focus on major airline brands Ryanair, AerLingus, Flybe
- Continuos route growth, increased customer offering
- Serves a wide region 2-4 hours from other major airports
- Historically poor access road infrastructure into region, no motorways
- Infrastructure to cater for majority of aircraft, 2345x45m runway, CAT2 ILS, CAT3 Lighting, Navaids, CAT 9 Fire cover, 800,000 capacity terminal etc
- Ryanair brand has huge draw, 14 routes,
- Holiday charter business to Majorca, Croatia etc
- 0-2% delays last year, Ryanair top punctuality rating

Airport youtube video which gives a good overview: