Feb 9th Protest - will you be joining?

hatrickpatrick · 06-02-2013 01:50AM

K-9 wrote: »

Would be great to get that totally wrote down, plus the other money that went into the banks. Might be about 30% of our debt in total. The rest is money we've borrowed to mainly pay Welfare and Public Sector pay and run the country.

And that's what this protest is calling for. You coming?

K-9 · 06-02-2013 02:15AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

And that's what this protest is calling for. You coming?

No, it wants to deal with a minority of our debt and ignore the majority of it, rather conveniently.

vincit qui se vincit · 06-02-2013 07:46PM

If 200,000 Irish people got up and marched regularly, the Irish state would get a lot better deal.

Anybody who does not appreciate the importance of the "falling domino" theory to the thinking of the EU - the EU leadership does not want such mass demonstrations to spread to other countries - is the sort of benighted person who would, in all their ignorance, proclaim "what will protesting change!"

Mass protests regularly made do change political realities. People who claim otherwise are too ideologically cynical to have a wise sense of judgement on any political issue.

nice_very · 06-02-2013 08:00PM

K-9 wrote: »

No, it wants to deal with a minority of our debt and ignore the majority of it, rather conveniently.

again I must stress that the CAHWT (at least in my area) are against a writedown, are calling for a writeoff, and will let that be known vocally on Sat, a sort of protest against the "writedown protest" a protest within a protest.. yo dawg I heard you like protests.....

jaffacakesyum · 06-02-2013 08:18PM

darkhorse wrote: »

Can ya get points for putting words in a posters mouth? I did'nt know that.:D(joke)

We are discussing it already. I replied to your post in such a way whereby I was trying to ascertain if you also thought that the protests that I linked to were futile at the time.

Haha "trying to ascertain" right. I think the best way to ascertain something is to ask me a question politely and respectfully, not to basically say "I assume you don't support these protests then"

How would you like it if I said "Oh so I assume you're a big moany git for supporting this protest then"

For the record, the first protest you linked was about medical cards being taken away right? My opinion on it is that medical cards should be taken off people who can afford their medical care i.e. it should be means tested. So no I wouldn't have supported the blanket all 'give us our medical cards back' protest. But I certainly believe those who need them should have them.

The second was about disability cuts right? I know and have worked with disabled people so those cuts are not something I would support. Protesting against cuts is very different to a "Jobs not debt" protest which I think is the stupidest slogan ever. Cue Enda sitting in his office "Oh I never thought about trying to create more jobs and getting rid of this debt" :rolleyes:

dvpower · 06-02-2013 08:25PM

Is the protest cancelled now that looks like a deal has been done on the PNs?

pitkan · 06-02-2013 08:29PM

nice_very wrote: »

again I must stress that the CAHWT (at least in my area) are against a writedown, are calling for a writeoff, and will let that be known vocally on Sat, a sort of protest against the "writedown protest" a protest within a protest.. yo dawg I heard you like protests.....

Fair enough. I am also looking for a write off.

The question is: What will the State mouthpiece, RTE, report only that the total turnout are for a write down. I'm sure their editing of the protest will be 'selective'.

purplecow1977 · 06-02-2013 08:33PM

I am going. Painful trying to get people I work with to go also. [I haven't tried, it's their choice, but I did ask/see if anyone wanted to share a lift].

ilovesleep · 06-02-2013 08:54PM

woodoo wrote: »

There is going to be a day of reckoning where lots of debt will be written off. Why are we panicing so much

I doubt very much there will be a debt write down. Europe said so too - that there will be no deal. If there will be a debt write down, it definately won't be given freely. They'll want us to give up more to them (perhaps corparation tax at a guess). They'll get their pound of flesh in return for a write down deal.

WakeUp · 06-02-2013 08:57PM

dvpower wrote: »

Is the protest cancelled now that looks like a deal has been done on the PNs?

"Looks Like" being the operative words. No deal has been done nor reached. According to our dear leader he "expects" an accord to be reached by the end of the month.

A spokeswoman for the ECB has said that "talks on the matter are ongoing and any conclusions on the outcome are premature".

Nothing has changed and the protest will most certainly not be cancelled.
http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=3031772;s=rollingnews.htm

UCDVet · 06-02-2013 09:32PM

Could someone just explain in simple terms why Ireland is paying more than it should or why people feel that it is? I guess I just don't understand what's going on.

I know the Irish government decided to guarantee the debt of the Irish banks. Or at least, that's what I've been told. Is that not the same debt we're talking about?

K-9 · 06-02-2013 10:20PM

UCDVet wrote: »

Could someone just explain in simple terms why Ireland is paying more than it should or why people feel that it is? I guess I just don't understand what's going on.

I know the Irish government decided to guarantee the debt of the Irish banks. Or at least, that's what I've been told. Is that not the same debt we're talking about?

Bank debt is a significant portion of it, about €45 Billion was borrowed for that. Thing is we've borrowed the same again and rising over the last few years to pay wages, welfare, keep schools, hospitals and Garda barracks open (well most of them anyway), basically keep the country going. We've also about another €45 Billion of debt that can be tracked back as far the 80's, they just kept refinancing it.

darkhorse · 06-02-2013 11:16PM

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Haha "trying to ascertain" right. I think the best way to ascertain something is to ask me a question politely and respectfully, not to basically say "I assume you don't support these protests then"

How would you like it if I said "Oh so I assume you're a big moany git for supporting this protest then"

Point taken, my apologies.

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

For the record, the first protest you linked was about medical cards being taken away right? My opinion on it is that medical cards should be taken off people who can afford their medical care i.e. it should be means tested. So no I wouldn't have supported the blanket all 'give us our medical cards back' protest. But I certainly believe those who need them should have them.

The second was about disability cuts right? I know and have worked with disabled people so those cuts are not something I would support. Protesting against cuts is very different to a "Jobs not debt" protest which I think is the stupidest slogan ever. Cue Enda sitting in his office "Oh I never thought about trying to create more jobs and getting rid of this debt" :rolleyes:

I just linked to these two protests as an example of the importance a protest can be. If the pensioners and the people with disabilities did'nt protest and just left things as they were, the government definitely would have not reversed those particular decisions.

Cookie_Monster · 06-02-2013 11:46PM

I'm not in Ireland but would not attend anyway.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding within the population that the bank debt is the only problem and that all the austerity is caused by that alone.
The annual budget deficit is a much much bigger problem that is being wholly ignored and constantly kicked down the road, if the protest was about forcing the government to actually do something about that, implement pay, welfare and budget cuts and actually balancing the budget rather than continue the reckless spending I would go to that.

jaffacakesyum · 06-02-2013 11:50PM

darkhorse wrote: »

Point taken, my apologies.

I just linked to these two protests as an example of the importance a protest can be. If the pensioners and the people with disabilities did'nt protest and just left things as they were, the government definitely would have not reversed those particular decisions.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I agree. But people on here are assuming that everyone who isn't attending the march this weekend is stupid and that they don't think protesting works. It can work. Throughout history there are many occasions where I support people being pro-active and standing up. I don't think anyone can argue that protesting per se doesn't work, more that just this particular protest won't change anything (IMO). It's more the topic rather than the form that is the issue here. I don't see the fact that we have billions of debt to pay changing anytime soon

K-9 · 07-02-2013 12:22AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm not in Ireland but would not attend anyway.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding within the population that the bank debt is the only problem and that all the austerity is caused by that alone.
The annual budget deficit is a much much bigger problem that is being wholly ignored and constantly kicked down the road, if the protest was about forcing the government to actually do something about that, implement pay, welfare and budget cuts and actually balancing the budget rather than continue the reckless spending I would go to that.

Well the budget deficit is getting smaller through cuts and tax rises, the problem for the next few years will be rising interest costs, the majority of which is not for bank debt.

Cookie_Monster · 07-02-2013 12:52AM

K-9 wrote: »

Well the budget deficit is getting smaller through cuts and tax rises,

but the taxes and cuts to date have been relatively small and the gap still remains substantial and is also based on pretty unrealistic growth targets.

K-9 · 07-02-2013 03:16AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but the taxes and cuts to date have been relatively small and the gap still remains substantial and is also based on pretty unrealistic growth targets.

The actual deficit has dropped by €9 Billion in 3 years, hardly small and the gap is getting bridged. The problem in the future is the interest on the bridging loans to get that reduction, plus the bank debt and what ever interest deal comes out when this whole Anglo debacle gets sorted.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2012/03/changing-nature-of-our-budget-deficits.html

paddy147 · 07-02-2013 03:57AM

Maybe those goverment TDs sitting in there all of tonight might now see what its like on a daily basis for a ward/staff nurse in a hospital who has to do it every day or his/her working life and put up with abuse from patients and public too (a&e and hospital wards).

The nurses dont get free booze,free food and free cars/drivers to take them home though.

But sure god love those poor hard pressed goverment TDs....they really put in lots of hours tonight.......muppets the lot of them.

Id say what happened tonight will bring lots more people out onto the streets to protest...armed with eggs too

darkhorse · 07-02-2013 04:00AM

K-9 wrote: »

The actual deficit has dropped by €9 Billion in 3 years, hardly small and the gap is getting bridged.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2012/03/changing-nature-of-our-budget-deficits.html[/QUOTE]

But, at what cost?

K-9 · 07-02-2013 04:06AM

darkhorse wrote: »

The actual deficit has dropped by €9 Billion in 3 years, hardly small and the gap is getting bridged.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2012/03/changing-nature-of-our-budget-deficits.html[/QUOTE]

But, at what cost?

You mean by not raising taxes and cutting spending? Nobody would have given us money if we didn't, so we'd have had far more severe cuts, far worse than people are complaining about now.

What do you think would have happened?

MadsL · 07-02-2013 04:26AM

paddy147 wrote: »

will bring lots more people out onto the streets to protest...armed with eggs too

Maybe there is a reason for that Second Amendment in the US after all!

KyussBishop · 07-02-2013 05:21AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm not in Ireland but would not attend anyway.

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding within the population that the bank debt is the only problem and that all the austerity is caused by that alone.
The annual budget deficit is a much much bigger problem that is being wholly ignored and constantly kicked down the road, if the protest was about forcing the government to actually do something about that, implement pay, welfare and budget cuts and actually balancing the budget rather than continue the reckless spending I would go to that.

Conversely, the idea that the deficit is the main problem is the misunderstanding; it's unemployment which is the problem crippling the country (and which is causing the deficit), so cutting the deficit makes unemployment worse, and thus reduces tax intake, making the deficit worse too.

There is no solution to the crisis, that does not resolve the unemployment problem; cutting the deficit (austerity) only worsens the crisis, causing even greater damage to the country.

Zebra3 · 07-02-2013 05:31AM

K-9 wrote: »

You mean by not raising taxes and cutting spending? Nobody would have given us money if we didn't, so we'd have had far more severe cuts, far worse than people are complaining about now.

What do you think would have happened?

Nobody has "given" us money.

Money has been loaned all right, but not given.

speedboatchase · 07-02-2013 07:15AM

WHAT DO WE WANT?!!

No cuts to our social welfare, no cuts to any government allowances, no negotiation of Croke Park if it involves cuts to public service employees, no new taxes.

DO WE REALISE THAT THIS LAUGHABLY NAIVE WHEN THE COUNTRY IS BROKE?!!

No!

I hope everyone has a great day out though. Protesting against a bank debt? I guess I overestimate people sometimes.

K-9 · 07-02-2013 07:36AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Nobody has "given" us money.

Money has been loaned all right, but not given.

I don't think anybody was throwing free money at us alright or just subing us, you'd be correct on that one.

ilovesleep · 07-02-2013 11:26AM

KyussBishop wrote: »

Conversely, the idea that the deficit is the main problem is the misunderstanding; it's unemployment which is the problem crippling the country (and which is causing the deficit), so cutting the deficit makes unemployment worse, and thus reduces tax intake, making the deficit worse too.

There is no solution to the crisis, that does not resolve the unemployment problem; cutting the deficit (austerity) only worsens the crisis, causing even greater damage to the country.

Yep! This is it. If we look to the uk as an example where it looks as if they've done many things right with lower wages, higher taxes, higher social contributions, a broadened tax base with their property taxes and water charges and all, lower social welfare - they too also are in deficit and have and unemployment crisis.
There will always be a deficit at times of a recession. Due to money that's hindered preventing growth and causing stagnation.

IrishExpat · 07-02-2013 12:16PM

After last night's farcical show in Dáil Eireann, an absolute disgrace not resembling the democracy and way of business we elected these guys to carry out.

That was the straw that broke this camels back.

So I'll be joining this protest and some other groups also.

ilovesleep · 07-02-2013 12:21PM

IrishExpat wrote: »

After last night's farcical show in Dáil Eireann, an absolute disgrace not resembling the democracy and way of business we elected these guys to carry out.

That was the straw that broke this camels back.

So I'll be joining this protest and some other groups also.

What happened last night?

Chucky the tree · 07-02-2013 12:37PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

What happened last night?

I doubt he has any idea.

Feb 9th Protest - will you be joining?

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