Feb 9th Protest - will you be joining?

KyussBishop wrote: »

It just becomes a ridiculous echo chamber in these threads after a while:
Person A: "what are the alternatives?"
Person B: "well we could do 'x', 'y' 'z' instead as the alternatives"
Person A (ignoring : "These protestors don't have any solutions!"


The alternative policies already exist; straight away the EU could relieve part of our debt burden by centralizing the debt, which means we will pay down the debt but at much lower interest rates.
The EU can also issue centralized bonds for funding investment programs which create jobs, without any of that being added to the national debt.

These policies are only the start of what can be done as well, since this doesn't even get into various forms of debt relief, and other far more powerful ways to fund investment.


Someone being personally ignorant of the alternatives, does not magically mean there are not any; the hint is also in the title slogan of the march "jobs not debt", with the above policies fitting that sentiment well.

Centralised debt is an interesting idea that could solve many of the problems that caused the debt crisis but it would require a centralisation of fiscal policy. For many this would be an unpalatable option. It is definitely a viable option though.

The problem with many of the options being proposed is that although some of them make sense economically, they are not viable politically. Unfortunately we must look at options from a political economy point of view.In a ideal world we could make private banks take losses rather than imposing these losses on the general public. We would then have the option to plan for a more balanced fiscal correction by growing the domestic economy with targeted spending while cutting waste and broadening our tax base. We are in a monetary and political union however and in a lot of respects our hands are tied by decisions at a european level.

darkhorse wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head once again.

darkhorse wrote: »

Oireachtas members paid €7.5m in expenses

The only ideas currently being explored by the government is how to try and top this.

This is just whining about problems, but not offering solutions.

You should go on this march.

There is a regular household charge/austerity march in Wexford, usually around every 6 weeks. It was down to approx 30 protesters yesterday. Shoppers don't even stop to look at see what it is about these days

darkhorse wrote: »

Agreed, also I'll be the there. However, I would like to see a protest on a day other than Saturday, as there would be no politicians in leinster house on a Saturday to disturb, (and we really need to disturb them), and on a day that we would have some dignitaries from other countries, esp. Germany and definitely the president of the ECB, as they think that we are doing great, cause our politicians have'nt been rocking the boat too much in the past few years.

Well the ICTU don't want such a protest, according to the SWP. (see quote and link to support it below). I had to laugh at some of the language in the article, "The EU leaders are terrible and their only interest is in saving big European banks"; hilariously infantile rhetoric.

The ICTU also wants a one day protest when most people are off work as a way of ‘letting off steam’ and strengthening their credibility in the eyes of members as they try to sell a Croke Park 2 agreement.

Article to support quote

macco66 wrote: »

I wonder did the Icelandic people spend all their time sniping, nay-saying and navel gazing on the internet before they implemented direct democracy and pursued their rogue bankers and complicit politicians?

Get out and make some noise. Then figure it out from there, little pixie heads.

I will be out making some noise next Saturday, the kind of noise that will keep people in employment and pay for someones social welfare for the next few weeks, i.e. I will be making the cash registers in the shops and cafes in Dublin ring.

Furious_George wrote: »

Centralised debt is an interesting idea that could solve many of the problems that caused the debt crisis but it would require a centralisation of fiscal policy. For many this would be an unpalatable option. It is definitely a viable option though.

The problem with many of the options being proposed is that although some of them make sense economically, they are not viable politically. Unfortunately we must look at options from a political economy point of view.In a ideal world we could make private banks take losses rather than imposing these losses on the general public. We would then have the option to plan for a more balanced fiscal correction by growing the domestic economy with targeted spending while cutting waste and broadening our tax base. We are in a monetary and political union however and in a lot of respects our hands are tied by decisions at a european level.

Well, it doesn't stricly require centralization of fiscal policy (we have already partially lost control of that already), we'd still be servicing our debts, just paying far less interest on them.
With the separate European Investment Fund policy, that would provide funding of select projects, just like the EU has already done in the past with the DART extensions and such; so it isn't anything majorly new in that regard, countries still have control over their fiscal policy, with the availability of extra funding for select projects, from the EIF.

You're right about the political viability for many of the alternatives, and that is why there need to be protests on the matter, to put political pressure towards pursuing these alternatives; there is no solution to come in Ireland, and as you say, it all has to be done at an EU level (unless we end up exiting, which hopefully won't be required).

Since we are not just being governed at a local level anymore, but at an EU level, protests here are not just about our own government anymore, but about governance at the EU as well; our government has been taking a rather subservient role at an EU level, and needs to be pressured to do more; and if after we do all we can to seek a better deal, if that doesn't prove fruitful, our government will need to reconsider if the position the EU leaves us in is sustainable/preferable, and whether the extent of our role in the EU should be reconsidered (things our government doesn't look very competent or willing to seek out or look at right now).

Bambi wrote: »

those fecking unions, if it wasn't for them destroying the economy and shifting the banks debts onto the exchequer we wouldnt be in this mess...

I know forcing the government to guarantee the banks.. awful stuff. And they made house prices go through he roof too... sickening.

Somebody has been reading too much sunday indo

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/organisers-claim-100000-to-march-against-austerity-across-ireland-next-weekend-3375981.html

Encouraging protesters to bring their children to bump up numbers is a disgrace.

How is it a disgrace. What an overreaction.

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/organisers-claim-100000-to-march-against-austerity-across-ireland-next-weekend-3375981.html

Up to 100,000 people are expected to march against austerity in rallies across Ireland next Saturday.

These are big numbers they are expecting. I'd be amazed if it got anywhere near that

The demonstrations, arranged by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (Ictu), have been described as a last-ditch attempt to appeal for a deal on the country's crippling 64 billion euro (£56 billion) debt burden.

[...]
He said European institutions must honour a pledge made last June to separate bank and sovereign debt, and restructure the controversial promissory note repayments.

So it seems that this protest is in support of the Government's attempt to get a deal on the debt, not a call for default.
A lot of the attendees won't be happy.