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Feb 9th Protest - will you be joining?

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Comments

  • #62
    Fulton Crown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭Fulton Crown


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Could you post some studies that maintain that a large number of people are happy to be on the dole?

    No need for "studies" Sherlock...the dogs in the street know that there is a certain class of person who have no desire to work,are very well versed in how to extract the max from the Irish social welfare system.

    Face reality my friend and quit the semantics......


  • #63
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Go and have a walk along the boardwalk in the city centre or ask a family with kids who get more off the social than what they would get if they went back into work.

    I didn't say they wouldn't get more I asked whether they would be happy on the dole long term.


  • #64
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,770 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    How you want to waste your time is not an issue for me pilgrim !

    Off you go and shout your inane slogans and allow yourself to be manipulated by people who have only their own interests in play and are using you and others like you as pawns.

    Watch out for the SF dynamic duo Gerry the Patriot - protector of the public health service...and Fat Mary.

    But ...never mind you may be doing them a favour and helping them along to nice fat pensions....

    "manipulated by people who have only their own interests in play"

    I am unaware of any Fine Gael T.D.'s and ministers marching to be honest.


  • #65
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    No need for "studies" Sherlock...the dogs in the street know that there is a certain class of person who have no desire to work,are very well versed in how to extract the max from the Irish social welfare system.

    Face reality my friend and quit the semantics......

    Sorry I believe in evidence based reality not opinion based reality. During the celtic tiger we had near full employment. So while I agree some people are happy to remain on the dole for life and while I have no time for those people I think they make up a tiny percentage of the country.


  • #66
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    During the celtic tiger we nearly had full employment so I dont believe the myth that a large number or irish people are long term unemployed and/or want to be.
    Yep. Whenever it's claimed "There are plenty of jobs out there"... yes, there are jobs (don't know about "plenty" though) but not enough to meet the demand. Also, while it's claimed lots are too up themselves to do unskilled work, there's also the issue of people with a lot of experience/qualifications being deemed unsuitable for unskilled jobs because they might only last a few months until something with higher pay comes along.
    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Go and have a walk along the boardwalk in the city centre or ask a family with kids who get more off the social than what they would get if they went back into work.
    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    No need for "studies" Sherlock...the dogs in the street know that there is a certain class of person who have no desire to work,are very well versed in how to extract the max from the Irish social welfare system.

    Face reality my friend and quit the semantics......
    Who'd employ many such folks though in fairness? Little education/skills/boundaries/values isn't exactly a great CV.

    The point Eddy is making is the number of people who can't be arsed working isn't as high as some claim.


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  • #67
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    You dont believe that there are a large number of people long term unemployed?????????:eek:

    Your contention was there was a population of long term unemplyed happy to be on the dole. Using the fact that during the celtic tiger we had near full employment I constructed the hypothesis that there is only a small percentage of people that would be happy to be unemployed long term.


  • #68
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    So what's the contention by people against the idea of protest? Do you not think protesting or marching have solved anything throughout history? I wonder would such people have even taken part in the civil rights marchs of the 1960s ect because the thought protests achieve nothing. An important (maybe the most important) part of protests is letting someone know that there's something we as a people are not happy with.

    Do you honestly think that standing outside the dail making yourself heard will achieve anything on the issue at hand? The government wont change anything based on this protest.
    Why have it on a saturday? why not have it midweek when it will have more of an effect and see how many actually care as much as they claim instead of using it as an excuse for not going shopping with the wife on a saturday.


  • #69
    Fulton Crown
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭Fulton Crown


    tayto lover wrote: »
    "manipulated by people who have only their own interests in play"

    I am unaware of any Fine Gael T.D.'s and ministers marching to be honest.

    You seem to be unaware of a lot of things my friend.......little peice of advice ...learn to think for yourself and don't be led by the loudest most strident voices.....M..Kay ?


  • #70
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Who'd employ many such folks though in fairness? Little education/skills/boundaries/values isn't exactly a great CV.

    The point Eddy is making is the number of people who can't be arsed working isn't as high as some claim.

    That's my point exactly thank you Madam! I know there are people like that out there because I posted a thread recently complaing that the people who want to escape the dole are being treated worse than the people who are happy on long term unemployment.


  • #71
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Do you honestly think that standing outside the dail making yourself heard will achieve anything on the issue at hand?

    As I've already yes
    mango salsa wrote: »
    Actually it achieves a huge amount:

    It gives ordinary people who are struggling a voice

    It illustrates that people are actually struggling to the point of extreme poverty

    It highlights the injustice against the Irish people

    It shows that Irish people want to take a strong stand against that injustice

    It shows to the International media and to the wider world that people in Ireland are not just completely ambivalent and careless about how we are shouldering 42% of the EU bank debt burden

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #72
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Yes, I'll be there. The present regime of austerity is austerity for me and others like me, in order to maintain our bankers in the style to which they became accustomed. The savage cut-backs in public services make it really difficult for both patients and staff of the HSE. It's really hard to provide what you know is a sub-standard service, a service which is WAY below best practice, when our Minister continues to insist that staff reductions have made no difference to patient treatment/services. YES IT HAS Minister.






    Although I don't think the govt is listening, it's really important to send the message that the ordinary people of Ireland are not happy at being taxed to the hilt and beyond to pay off bank debts. That's BANK DEBTS, not our debts.

    good on ya,

    they're listening alright but the trouble is we're sending them the message that we'll just keep on taking it over and over again no matter what.

    this has to change and we'll rattle them if we all take to the streets at the same time.

    if the support isn't there next week well then when do we say enough is enough?


  • #73
    Lenin Skynard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭Lenin Skynard


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Do you honestly think that standing outside the dail making yourself heard will achieve anything on the issue at hand? The government wont change anything based on this protest.
    Why have it on a saturday? why not have it midweek when it will have more of an effect and see how many actually care as much as they claim instead of using it as an excuse for not going shopping with the wife on a saturday.

    It did a fair bit for the OAPs a few years back and also more recently regarding disability cuts.

    If the protest was on a weekday you'd have just as many whinging that "Sure everyone's at work on weekdays and the protesters are all unemployed wasters".


  • #74
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Do you honestly think that standing outside the dail making yourself heard will achieve anything on the issue at hand? The government wont change anything based on this protest.
    Why have it on a saturday? why not have it midweek when it will have more of an effect and see how many actually care as much as they claim instead of using it as an excuse for not going shopping with the wife on a saturday.

    Yes again I believe in evidence based realities. Marching and protests have achieved some measure of success in the past. The least they have done is to bring awareness to an issue. A large number of people in Europe are under the impression that Irish people are happy with the cuts imposed on them ect. Are you seriously giving out about a protest being on a Saturday?


  • #75
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    will they also be having a protest to cut our crazy spending on public sector and social welfare, which is amongest the highest in the world?

    bank debt is problem, our deficit is a bank debt every three years. id hazard a guess that alot of the people marching will fall into the above categories which makes them hypocrites IMO.


  • #76
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Your contention was there was a population of long term unemplyed happy to be on the dole. Using the fact that during the celtic tiger we had near full employment I constructed the hypothesis that there is only a small percentage of people that would be happy to be unemployed long term.

    Im talking about now , not the celtic tiger era. Of course there are people who have worked all their lives and now found themselves on the dole , these people deserve every help they can get. There are a great number that have never worked a day in their lives and have no interest in working and also there are a great number who are unemployable , these are the burden and should be looked into and the numbers are greater than you want to believe.
    A march should be made to protest at the ever increasing taxes to the working men whilst the burden on society are happy enough to laugh at the rest of us.
    The burden is also those working in the Dail with their 4 or 5 advisors who tell a TD how to do their job.


  • #77
    COYW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭COYW


    Whilst I respect the right to protest, I fail to see what such a protests will ever achieve. It will not get international media coverage and as others have said, we need new creative ideas to get the country moving, not speeches by the usual lefty suspects who treat these marches like some sort of funeral circuit. If the lefties attending tomorrow want to change something, how about they mobilise their support, start a meaningful political party and come up with some sensible policies that provide people with an alternative.

    Personally, I would love to see a protest highlighting the ridiculous excesses in terms of spending in the health service or the gravy train that is our social welfare system, which rewards wasters who spend their lives living off the backs of everyone else, without fear of every having their benefits cut.


  • #78
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 54,770 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    You seem to be unaware of a lot of things my friend.......little peice of advice ...learn to think for yourself and don't be led by the loudest most strident voices.....M..Kay ?

    And a little piece of advice for you my friend ...... don't listen to the lies of the stooges we unfortunately elected on a tissue of lies. They are only leading us down the abyss. Once a liar always a liar. Learn to question and don't take their word for granted because you will be penniless and they will be rich.


  • #79
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Im talking about now , not the celtic tiger era. Of course there are people who have worked all their lives and now found themselves on the dole , these people deserve every help they can get. There are a great number that have never worked a day in their lives and have no interest in working and also there are a great number who are unemployable , these are the burden and should be looked into and the numbers are greater than you want to believe.
    A march should be made to protest at the ever increasing taxes to the working men whilst the burden on society are happy enough to laugh at the rest of us.
    The burden is also those working in the Dail with their 4 or 5 advisors who tell a TD how to do their job.

    Ok what number of Irish people are happy to be unemployed long term? What number have been unemployed long term?


  • #80
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Yes again I believe in evidence based realities. Marching and protests have achieved some measure of success in the past. The least they have done is to bring awareness to an issue. A large number of people in Europe are under the impression that Irish people are happy with the cuts imposed on them ect. Are you seriously giving out about a protest being on a Saturday?


    Why try and bring awareness to an issue that every fecker in the country is aware of?

    Ye, it should be midweek when it will have full affect. All it will attract on a saturday is those that have nothing better to do .


  • #81
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    Fulton Crown wrote: »
    Protest marches ? ...nah ! Not me pilgrim.

    Packed with leftie trouble makers

    Duffle coated crusties

    Skangers in track suits...those saggy grey ones (so suitable for the Irish complexion).

    Arse holes with whistles and loud hailers....urging people to chant slogans.

    Ming Flanigan / Claire Daly / Mick Wallace.

    Nah compadre ...not for me ...gotta clean the brake dust from my alloys.....:cool:

    packed with people who really do care enough to get off their arses to try protest against things that are just not right by any stretch of the imagination and we are fcuked in this country because of attitudes like yours.

    quit your procrastinating and get along to a protest, if not for you personally but for those around you that are really suffering in front of our eyes or are you really that much of a €^47??

    i've lost too many family, friends and clients to suicide and depression over the last few years to not do something to try relieve us all of this gambling debt and this endless war on terror that is also fueling this $hit system. I've lost a successful business which put me under fierce financial strains and after a breakdown I didn't see my daughter for 2 years.

    This $hit has to stop


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  • #82
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Ok what number of Irish people are happy to be unemployed long term? What number have been unemployed long term?

    72


  • #83
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    crazy spending on public sector and social welfare, which is amongest the highest in the world?

    Have you a link to some stats to show that?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #84
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    tayto lover wrote: »
    And a little piece of advice for you my friend ...... don't listen to the lies of the stooges we unfortunately elected on a tissue of lies. They are only leading us down the abyss. Once a liar always a liar. Learn to question and don't take their word for granted because you will be penniless and they will be rich.

    do you not agree, that the damage was done well before this goverment was put in charge?

    the billions were spent from 2004-2008, not this year or last year. people seem to forget this. of course as uaual in ireland, its always somebody elses fault.


  • #85
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,702 ✭✭✭squod


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    do you not agree, that the damage was done well before this goverment was put in charge?

    the billions were spent from 2004-2008, not this year or last year. people seem to forget this. of course as uaual in ireland, its always somebody elses fault.

    WTF? Seriously, this shower were in government five bleeding minutes and they put €4bn into a poxy little tiny bank yoke worth €28m. You couldn't make this up.

    Going along with the ECBs plan of cementing Anglos debts onto our backs is another one. How far do you reckon these freaks should be allowed go?


  • #86
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    do you not agree, that the damage was done well before this goverment was put in charge?

    the billions were spent from 2004-2008, not this year or last year. people seem to forget this. of course as uaual in ireland, its always somebody elses fault.

    that's cos it is someone else's fault, some very powerful, far reaching, rich crazies faults actually and we're paying for it because in their eyes we'd have nothing without them and they deserve to hold most of the wealth of the world between them and we are damned if we're to receive too much of it when it trickles down in the boom years.

    I'm sick of the way this system doesn't work, end of.


  • #87
    Stained Class
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Stained Class


    Fulton Crown wrote: »

    Watch out for the SF dynamic duo Gerry the Patriot - protector of the public health service...and Fat Mary.

    This is the reason many Irish people don't go to these kind of demonstrations.

    The Shinners always piggyback onto any kinda protest to 'represent the people'.:rolleyes:


  • #88
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    G Power wrote: »
    that's cos it is someone else's fault, some very powerful, far reaching, rich crazies faults actually and we're paying for it because in their eyes we'd have nothing without them and they deserve to hold most of the wealth of the world between them and we are damned if we're to receive too much of it when it trickles down in the boom years.

    I'm sick of the way this system doesn't work, end of.


    We know it doesn't work

    We have proof showing it

    http://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressrelease/2013-01-19/annual-income-richest-100-people-enough-end-global-poverty-four-times

    And still some people want to throw their hands up and say "there's nothing we can do"

    Personally I refuse to have a defeatist helpless attitude like that

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #89
    Hootanany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,478 ✭✭✭Hootanany


    lockon... wrote: »
    Not a chance

    So he is a plant then thanks for that..
    Anyone else have info on the Union leaders.


  • #90
    Am Chile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Reading through some of the comments on here, some people have a very defeatist attitude to things-why protest ?

    Mango and Julies covered that point well in their posts.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83006288&postcount=24

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83005935&postcount=18


    Is
    it just an ICTU event or will it include others, SWP, eirigi etc.?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83005732&postcount=13

    No its not just an ICTU march there will be many other groups there-Cahwt will be there along with other groups-the swp and eirigi will probaly be there-I don,t see why its an issue if they are there, they are entitled to attend-I won,t be marching alongside them or behind their banners- for anyone who
    wants to protest but don't want to protest under the banner of the Unions or any other association, then you have a choice...

    The Independent Protesters in Solidarity are there to help you. They are there to give you the option of protesting without banners, Political Parties, groups, or associations....

    Check them out and lend your support.
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Independent-Protesters-In-Solidarity/534774113216554


    I know some are saying ah sure what will protesting achieve, they won,t care or take notice of protests.whos gonna care ?bear in mind some comments from a fine gael minister a few months ago.
    a senior Fine Gael minister, warned Mr Kenny that middle Ireland is at the brink and needs to "see light at the end of the tunnel.

    "If we bring middle Ireland onto the streets then it will be 'Goodbye Fine Gael'," the Minister said.

    One senior Fine Gael minister said that unless a bank deal is secured, middle Ireland could be forced on to the streets in protest.

    "The people are sick of austerity and not fit for it anymore. The people who are suffering are the people of middle Ireland. They want to see some light at the end of the tunnel," the minister said.

    The minster also warned that if Ireland does not obtain a deal, the consequences for Fine Gael could be disastrous.

    "If we bring middle Ireland on to the streets then it will be goodbye Fine Gael. We will go the same way as Fianna Fail
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/appeasing-merkel-has-cost-us-the-bank-deal-3266330.html

    They re more scared of large scale protests then what people might think.


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  • #91
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    Stained Class wrote: »
    This is the reason many Irish people don't go to these kind of demonstrations.

    The Shinners always piggyback onto any kinda protest to 'represent the people'.:rolleyes:
    Many Irish people don't go to demonstrations because they are either plain lazy, apathetic or just don't believe demonstrating will make any difference. Mostly the latter to be fair. But if the alternative is sitting at home watching telly and saying 'look at those eejits out there marching' I'd rather be one of 'those eejits' than be one of you, because at least they're willing to go out and show their anger at the way people are being pissed on and sold out by their government. You are all well able to complain about the state of the education services, the health service, empty housing estates, shitty roads, taxes on this and that, bank bailouts and cronyism, but when you get a chance to voice your frustration you go 'meh.....'
    As for the 'Shinners', at least they don't mind nailing their colours to the mast. They are consistent in their ideals and I can't fault them for it, especially when the current and previous governments are in the pockets of the banks.


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