Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

Dempsey · 11-01-2013 06:22PM

He's responsible for the day to day running of the football club, he hired Lennon & he hired all his backroom team, John Park and all the scouts he uses. Lawwell does the contract negotiations, enforced the current transfer policy, not Lennon or Park and responsible for all the number crunching yet no kudos should be paid towards him? I'm bemused by your stance toward the board at Celtic, there is no logic to it.

BhoscaCapall · 11-01-2013 06:51PM

Lennon was the cheap and easy option, everyone knows that and everyone said it at the time. Whether it turned out right or I'm in favour of it (both yes) is beside the point.

I think Lawwell has done a great job btw, I just don't think he deserves the plaudits for other people's work.

eire4 · 11-01-2013 06:54PM

Dempsey wrote: »

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11781/8390695/Celtic-are-closing-in-on-the-signing-of-United-States-international-Juan-Agudelo-from-Chivas-USA

Sky Sports understands Celtic are closing in on the signing of United States international Juan Agudelo.

So we could be pulling talented players from the MLS & A-League this window. Lawwell will tell you that commercial prospects have nothing to do with it! All we need now is an Asian player to be dragged into the mix!

Risky move if Celtic do go for Agudelo unless we can get him on the cheap. The lad is only 20 and thats a big move from an off the field stand point never mind the on the field differences.

blahfckingblah · 11-01-2013 06:55PM

Dempsey wrote: »

I'm bemused by your stance toward the board at Celtic, there is no logic to it.

anti-establismentarianism why? for the craic!!

Dempsey · 11-01-2013 07:06PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Lennon was the cheap and easy option, everyone knows that and everyone said it at the time. Whether it turned out right or I'm in favour of it (both yes) is beside the point.

I think Lawwell has done a great job btw, I just don't think he deserves the plaudits for other people's work.

You could say the same of Lennon and Park, they're getting kudos for a transfer policy they didnt implement but thats not the way I look at it. Same goes for Park, he's focussing on players that fit a certain profile. Lawwell still has to convince them to sign and Lennon & the coaches has to get the best out of them.

You cant single anyone out for credit (or criticism) without doing so for a host of other people for their work that contributed to the success (or failure).

Celtic do not operate the "British Model" with Lennon having full control. Martin O'Neill was the last manager to get that and he showed why nobody else should get it ever again.

BhoscaCapall · 11-01-2013 07:36PM

Dempsey wrote: »

You could say the same of Lennon, he's getting kudos for a transfer policy he didnt implement but thats not the way I look at it.

Odd thing to say to me about 5 posts since I credited John Park.

Dempsey · 11-01-2013 07:41PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Odd thing to say to me about 5 posts since I credited John Park.

John Park didnt come up with it either, he co-ordinates scouts and compiles the data collected so we are looking at players fitting the profile the club wants. I've edited my post to reflect that

BhoscaCapall · 11-01-2013 07:46PM

Why are we a good team right now? Lennnon, Forster, Wanyama, Hooper, Ledley etc. A combined fee of about £5m. Yes there are several people who are to thank for this, I just don't think Lawwell is anywhere near the top of the list.

It's not a criticism of him.

Lennonist · 11-01-2013 07:47PM

Dempsey wrote: »

You could say the same of Lennon, he's getting kudos for a transfer policy he didnt implement but thats not the way I look at it.

You cant single anyone out for credit (or criticism) without doing so for a host of other people for their work that contributed to the success (or failure).

Celtic do not operate the "British Model" with Lennon having full control. Martin O'Neill was the last manager to get that and he showed why nobody else should get it ever again.

O'Neill made some great signings for Celtic, there was no big money flops in the Rafael Sheidt or Tore Andre Flo bracket. It was the salaries of those players (Hartson, Lennon, Sutton, Thompson et al) that ended up causing problems. Larsson was probably on a similar salary, think it was 40k a week at the time, he was worth every penny and was here for 7 years. It was generally money well spent, so long as you can afford. If Celtic can maintain a regular presence in the CL, after a few seasons they can begin to offer that kind of money and salaries to players again on the strength of CL and associated revenue.

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-01-2013 07:51PM

PauloMN wrote: »

Lads, any chance at all I'd be able to get my hands on a couple of tickets for Juve in Parkhead? Any pointers as to where I could get them?

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Long shot but any of the bhoys on here have a sniff of a spare ticket for the juve game?

I can probably get one from our supporters club, it will be from the public sale to season ticket holders (I am no longer one but the supporters club bunch everyones season tickets together for extra tickets) and will be priced at £49. Let me know before Monday

BhoscaCapall · 11-01-2013 07:52PM

How many extra tickets get ST holders purchase other than their own?

blahfckingblah · 11-01-2013 07:53PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

How many extra tickets get ST holders purchase other than their own?

eh?

BhoscaCapall · 11-01-2013 07:58PM

blahfckingblah wrote: »

eh?

I don't really know how to rephrase it tbh..

how many tickets to the Juve match can season ticket holders purchase?

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-01-2013 07:58PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

How many extra tickets get ST holders purchase other than their own?

The information I have is that each season ticket holder is allowed to buy 2 more tickets from the public sale allocation. Not sure if they will be exclusively to ST holders first though. Tickets go on sale 17th. It looks like it will be a sell out

Dempsey · 11-01-2013 09:52PM

Lennonist wrote: »

O'Neill made some great signings for Celtic, there was no big money flops in the Rafael Sheidt or Tore Andre Flo bracket. It was the salaries of those players (Hartson, Lennon, Sutton, Thompson et al) that ended up causing problems. Larsson was probably on a similar salary, think it was 40k a week at the time, he was worth every penny and was here for 7 years. It was generally money well spent, so long as you can afford. If Celtic can maintain a regular presence in the CL, after a few seasons they can begin to offer that kind of money and salaries to players again on the strength of CL and associated revenue.

Good signings no doubt but the timing of contract renewals was questionable and especially the structure of their wage packet considering their age and it nearly ended up being a big problem. We were heading for financial difficulty by the time he left and Strachan did a great job considering the level of debt there when he arrived, his mandate from the board/Lawwell and the results he achieved.

All our contracts now are heavily performance based, I'd be happy handing out MON-esque wages on condition they are actually in the UCL and not just a huge basic wage regardless and thats the main difference between how MON ran contract negotiations compared to how Lawwell does it now.

bobbysands81 · 11-01-2013 09:52PM

RoryMac wrote: »

I'd be surprised if he ends up at Norwich even more so if it is for the £3 million fee being mentioned but if it does happen hopefully we have someone in mind to replace him. There is no doubting his goal scoring record but he is not IMO irreplaceable by any means.

I think Hooper is a good striker... but that's all he is. I don't think he's as good as a lot of Celtic fans think he is. I would have thought he was slightly better than Norwich though and I'd be really surprised if he ended up there. If he stays at Celtic another couple of years he'd deffo get a bigger team.

...and now for something controversial, I think Stokes is a better player.

FatherTed · 11-01-2013 10:00PM

I've seen Agudelo play a lot, well not in the past year but before that when he was with NY Red Bulls. Has great potential but went off the boil the second half of 2011 season but for some strange reason hasn't been right since. He's scored a few times for the US too.

PauloMN · 11-01-2013 10:12PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I can probably get one from our supporters club, it will be from the public sale to season ticket holders (I am no longer one but the supporters club bunch everyones season tickets together for extra tickets) and will be priced at £49. Let me know before Monday

Thanks, if you could get two ADIG, I'd be delighted to take them, I'd sort you out with PayPal if you have that. I'd need the two though.

Dempsey · 11-01-2013 10:14PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I think Hooper is a good striker... but that's all he is. I don't think he's as good as a lot of Celtic fans think he is. I would have thought he was slightly better than Norwich though and I'd be really surprised if he ended up there. If he stays at Celtic another couple of years he'd deffo get a bigger team.

...and now for something controversial, I think Stokes is a better player.

I would say Stokes is a better finisher and takes up better positions in the box but Hoopers allround game is now better and works harder for the team.

I think Norwich would be a good fit for him, unlikely to be rotated much & Hoolahan would be able to pick out alot of his runs.

My 2c

FatherTed wrote: »

I've seen Agudelo play a lot, well not in the past year but before that when he was with NY Red Bulls. Has great potential but went off the boil the second half of 2011 season but for some strange reason hasn't been right since. He's scored a few times for the US too.

Lennon + co. have gotten some consistency out of Samaras so maybe they could do the same job on this guy.

Is he left footed? Can he play left wing?

PauloMN · 11-01-2013 10:21PM

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

That is thanks to Lennon and John Park, not Lawwell. Despite the SFA's best efforts we could have buried Rangers years ago had we invested. Although I suppose the board could point out that they died anyway without us having to overspend, which would be reasonable.

Also, Hooper for £3m :pac: even £6m would be a joke. Ki went for around that and he was a shítebag.

Hooper is our biggest asset in a long while due to being excellent, young, and English. He should command an eight-figure fee easily.

Amazing you can't give the board credit. Lenny and Park deserve credit absolutely, but Lawwell is as good at his job as Lennon and Park are at theirs. It's the combination of the board and management team that have us where we are, but without a board strong enough to resist over-spending and tax-dodging, we'd have no club to support.

I disagree with you on Hooper being our biggest asset at the moment, I reckon Wanyama would shade that contest.

Lennonist wrote: »

O'Neill made some great signings for Celtic, there was no big money flops in the Rafael Sheidt or Tore Andre Flo bracket. It was the salaries of those players (Hartson, Lennon, Sutton, Thompson et al) that ended up causing problems. Larsson was probably on a similar salary, think it was 40k a week at the time, he was worth every penny and was here for 7 years. It was generally money well spent, so long as you can afford. If Celtic can maintain a regular presence in the CL, after a few seasons they can begin to offer that kind of money and salaries to players again on the strength of CL and associated revenue.

No, I hope not, and I don't think so either. Wise, prudent spending is the name of the game. Big wages are a thing of the past for Scottish clubs, even with CL presence in the next few years (hopefully), we might be able to shop around more, but wages will always need to be controlled.

PauloMN · 11-01-2013 10:26PM

I was watching the 2011/12 season DVD yesterday, and it's easy to forget how important Stokes was to us. I'm guilty of not giving him as much credit as he deserved, but he was fantastic last season. He had a great partnership with Hooper, when both were playing together it generally worked very well.

My only criticism of Stokes would be he seemed to struggle in bigger games. I'd like to see him back though for sure. Hope his head is in the right place.

bobbysands81 · 11-01-2013 10:26PM

PauloMN wrote: »

I disagree with you on Hooper being our biggest asset at the moment, I reckon Wanyama would shade that contest.

Wanyama and Forster are our biggest assets by far, nobody really comes close to either in our current squad.

bobbysands81 · 11-01-2013 10:32PM

PauloMN wrote: »

I was watching the 2011/12 season DVD yesterday, and it's easy to forget how important Stokes was to us. I'm guilty of not giving him as much credit as he deserved, but he was fantastic last season. He had a great partnership with Hooper, when both were playing together it generally worked very well.

My only criticism of Stokes would be he seemed to struggle in bigger games. I'd like to see him back though for sure. Hope his head is in the right place.

Stokes's passing is his biggest asset. I think he's the most underrated player at the club.

Dempsey · 11-01-2013 10:46PM

A tweet going around saying we've bid £3m for Agudelo.

PauloMN · 11-01-2013 10:49PM

Dempsey wrote: »

A tweet going around saying we've bid £3m for Agudelo.

Must be the £3m we're getting for Hooper lol.

BhoscaCapall · 11-01-2013 11:30PM

PauloMN wrote: »

I disagree with you on Hooper being our biggest asset at the moment, I reckon Wanyama would shade that contest.

I meant in terms of sale value. Striker + young + English tax.

RoryMac · 11-01-2013 11:31PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I think Hooper is a good striker... but that's all he is. I don't think he's as good as a lot of Celtic fans think he is. I would have thought he was slightly better than Norwich though and I'd be really surprised if he ended up there. If he stays at Celtic another couple of years he'd deffo get a bigger team.

...and now for something controversial, I think Stokes is a better player.

I'd agree with most of that that although I'm not sure I'd have Stokes down as a better player. I think there's very little between them but Hooper is the better finisher which I think gives him the nod for me.

For me the problem with Hooper is that his workrate and attitude on the pitch aren't great, maybe it's down to our recent success with scouting talent but i believe we could replace Hooper quite easily

BhoscaCapall · 11-01-2013 11:37PM

RoryMac wrote: »

For me the problem with Hooper is that his workrate and attitude on the pitch aren't great, maybe it's down to our recent success with scouting talent but i believe we could replace Hooper quite easily

He's a poacher. His job isn't to run around the park creating chances it's to hang about the penalty box and put the ball in the net when it's given to him - which he does incredibly well.

Lennonist · 12-01-2013 12:56AM

Dempsey wrote: »

Good signings no doubt but the timing of contract renewals was questionable and especially the structure of their wage packet considering their age and it nearly ended up being a big problem. We were heading for financial difficulty by the time he left and Strachan did a great job considering the level of debt there when he arrived, his mandate from the board/Lawwell and the results he achieved.

All our contracts now are heavily performance based, I'd be happy handing out MON-esque wages on condition they are actually in the UCL and not just a huge basic wage regardless and thats the main difference between how MON ran contract negotiations compared to how Lawwell does it now.

Strachan was another one who wasn't given the due credit and respect he deserved from certain sections of the Celtic support for the work he did for Celtic.

Lennonist · 12-01-2013 01:00AM

PauloMN wrote: »

No, I hope not, and I don't think so either. Wise, prudent spending is the name of the game. Big wages are a thing of the past for Scottish clubs, even with CL presence in the next few years (hopefully), we might be able to shop around more, but wages will always need to be controlled.

It's about getting the balance right. Continuous CL presence, means Celtic can offer more in terms of wages while remaining within budget.

Celtic FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014/15 Mod Warning post #6011

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