Saorview PVR Box has arrived.

Tony · 08-12-2012 09:01PM

Yes but to do this you would have to have the source code of the Freeview box and since Freeview have no interest in accommodating viewers outside the Six counties its unlikely this would ever be considered

ninja900 wrote: »

A Freeview HD box used on Saorview won't be doing anything it's not supposed to do. There are a few software issues which should be easier/cheaper to sort out on an existing box whose development has already been paid for,

Capt'n Midnight · 08-12-2012 09:03PM

ninja900 wrote: »

You left the word 'No' off the start when you quoted me, Capt'n

:eek:

sorry

But Sat4Free was using the proprietary Freesat EPG which it wasn't authorised to do. Freesat were able to take action to stop the boxes being sold here.

Same manufacturers , just different names on the boxes.

Since they aren't allowing existing Freesat boxes to be retailed here it's extremely unlikely they would spend money to add saorview capability to an existing Freesat type box.

watty · 09-12-2012 12:05AM

The market for basic boxes will be exhausted shortly. The only longer term market is for high end true PVRs and BD + PVRs and TVs. But they will not address the high end PVR market till the sales of basic boxes have collapsed. Spring 2013?

Don't expect high end true PVRs and BD + PVRs to be cheap though in 2013. A real "Freeview+ HD" or "Freesat+ HD" with ethernet and BD player / BD/DVD Recorder isn't cheap in UK.

Hotblack Desiato · 09-12-2012 12:20AM

Bluray is already dying.

Willby · 10-12-2012 09:16AM

ninja900 wrote: »

Bluray is already dying.

Is this because of the growing * On Demand* Platform?

watty · 10-12-2012 10:41AM

VOD and such is complementary, a different market. Disc based video certainly isn't dying and even the drop in CD sales is more to do with more demands on spending for Entertainment and CDs x2 to x3 DVD cost (CDs compete with Rental, games, DVD, BD, Amazon, eBay, Internet etc not just iTunes).

Sales of BD players may have peaked and dropping, that is NOTHING to do with sales of DVD or BD disks.

Even if everyone had fibre to home that would not replace physical media. Unless you only care to rent (iTunes & Amazon content for music, video, books is only a temporary non-transferable licence, not a physical purchase you can give away, swap, sell or leave to your children).

It seems mental however that Tesco is selling DVDs at €5 to €10 and yet many CDs (OLD content too!) are €17. CDs are cheaper to press and distribute and cost less to create the content and have lower royalties. The iTunes may seem like a cheap way to buy tracks but it's often a stupid and expensive way to buy full albums even compared to overpriced CDs.

Netflix on UPC is a replacement for xtravison. It in no way at all replaces purchasing DVD/BD. Physical rental may be dying, not BD format.

JonathonS · 10-12-2012 11:09AM

Willby wrote: »

Would it be asking too much for someone from Walker marketing dept. to give an accurate assessment here on this forum as to when we can expect the much anticipated approved Saorview PVR.

My information on arrival dates is from a store and they are telling me that the people in Walker are passing on what they are being told by the factory that is making them and the story changes every week. Anyway the latest is that they will be arriving at the end of this week. I will believe it when I see it. I am still backing Santa to be the first to get them.

doney84 · 16-12-2012 03:24PM

powercity.ie now saying not due in until the end of December...

watty · 16-12-2012 07:43PM

So before Christmas if you are Coptic or Orthodox. (Various January dates)

OO7FITZY · 17-12-2012 11:15AM

OK, so this is a bit of a joke now...and rightly so
Do we know if there is a saorsat PVR available or am I mad?

zg3409 · 17-12-2012 11:38AM

OO7FITZY wrote: »

Do we know if there is a saorsat PVR available or am I mad?

I think there are only 3 Saorsat approved devices.
A TV with a Sat and Saorview tuner
A Combo box with Sat and Saorview tuner
A Sat only box with only one tuner.

I think all 3 of these device have a "recording feature" but not a real PVR. I would doubt that any device would go through the whole Saorsat approval for PVR. I would doubt that there will be a true PVR combo (combined sat and ter) that is Saorview/Saorsat approved.

There is a small chance that some of these approved devices may allow series link once the information is sent by RTENL and there is possibly a greater chance that some make of dual tuner satelite box may be able to receive and use the series link information. However until series link information is sent fully it will not be possible to test.

scruffy66 · 17-12-2012 10:52PM

watty wrote: »

The market for basic boxes will be exhausted shortly. The only longer term market is for high end true PVRs and BD + PVRs and TVs. But they will not address the high end PVR market till the sales of basic boxes have collapsed. Spring 2013?

Don't expect high end true PVRs and BD + PVRs to be cheap though in 2013. A real "Freeview+ HD" or "Freesat+ HD" with ethernet and BD player / BD/DVD Recorder isn't cheap in UK.

BUT Watty,

If RTE Saorview had of stayed with mpeg 2 like freeview and did there HD the same as Freeview we would have been sorted .

I haven't been on many UK forums were the UK public where jumping up and down saying how the Irish got it right with their mpeg 4 and how freeview blew it .

Why did they change anyway, was it not more about money than any reason of quality

17-12-2012 11:00PM

scruffy66 wrote: »

BUT Watty,

If RTE Saorview had of stayed with mpeg 2 like freeview and did there HD the same as Freeview we would have been sorted .

I haven't been on many UK forums were the UK public where jumping up and down saying how the Irish got it right with their mpeg 4 and how freeview blew it .

Why did they change anyway, was it not more about money than any reason of quality

We would have been wasting capacity by simulcasting SD and HD. RTÉNL made the right choice with MPEG-4.

I'll repeat what I always say: why should we have went with 1995 technology just because the UK were early adopters?

Sam Russell · 17-12-2012 11:07PM

scruffy66 wrote: »

BUT Watty,

If RTE Saorview had of stayed with mpeg 2 like freeview and did there HD the same as Freeview we would have been sorted .

I haven't been on many UK forums were the UK public where jumping up and down saying how the Irish got it right with their mpeg 4 and how freeview blew it .

Why did they change anyway, was it not more about money than any reason of quality

It was all to do with Pay TV. Boxer got the nod, and so they insisted on a Nordig system so we had to go with that. Boxer pulled out but we stayed with Nordig. Everyone else pulled out but we stayed with Nordig. The alternative was to go with the UK 'D Book' which is secret. This was before DVB-T2, and the 'D Book' did not allow Mpeg 4 on DVB -T1. So we were goosed with whatever we did.

We now have a dog's dinner of the system that is only used in far flung places. [Not even far flung places]. Nordig without MHEG5 is used in Nordig countries, so their kit is no good. No-one else uses MHEG5 and Nordig.

We are goosed. Sounds famillar. Anyone for a promissary note?

scruffy66 · 18-12-2012 12:25AM

Karsini wrote: »

We would have been wasting capacity by simulcasting SD and HD. RTÉNL made the right choice with MPEG-4.

I'll repeat what I always say: why should we have went with 1995 technology just because the UK were early adopters?

Capacity ,Capacity,:D

The idea that a commercial operator had any chance in this market was laughable. The only reason it was ever entertained was because it was around the celtic bubble , when people were in dream land.

Ill repeat what i said earlier ,i haven't read any posts in the uk forums by any of their highly qualified people deriding their system

Anyway im in dublin ,picking up Full FREEVIEW from divis with over 70 channels. Picture quality excellent, HD Channels etc.

Even if Saorview put on an extra mux for TV3 +1 and TV3 +2 ETC,
i should be able to get them as well.

18-12-2012 12:31AM

While the pay DTT model was the reason behind the Nordig adoption, I don't think it was the reason for the MPEG-4 adoption. We were able to go HD from the outset as all approved equipment is and was HD compatible from the start. Otherwise we would have had to carry SD MPEG-2 and HD MPEG-4 simultaneously which, quite frankly, is a waste of space and transmission power. It's understandable in a legacy system which had no HD from the start but that wasn't our case.

I'm actually tired of arguing this. By that logic we might as well have remained on 405 since everyone on the east coast with TVs in the 50s already had 405.

scruffy66 · 18-12-2012 01:04AM

Karsini wrote: »

While the pay DTT model was the reason behind the Nordig adoption, I don't think it was the reason for the MPEG-4 adoption. We were able to go HD from the outset as all approved equipment is and was HD compatible from the start. Otherwise we would have had to carry SD MPEG-2 and HD MPEG-4 simultaneously which, quite frankly, is a waste of space and transmission power. It's understandable in a legacy system which had no HD from the start but that wasn't our case.

I'm actually tired of arguing this. By that logic we might as well have remained on 405 since everyone on the east coast with TVs in the 50s already had 405.

Your point does not hold up for the consumer , who is after all forking out the CASH that is not that available, to pay for the over priced equipment.

There was dirt cheap combi mpeg 2 boxes around.
there was cheap mpeg 2 boxes
1000's of people had tv' picking up RTE on mpeg 2, now they have saorview boxes beside them.

Where a Country of 4 million , as far as i know we pay the tv licence that
was paying for all this and yet we weren't asked, do you want this system
that going to cost you alot more money or the cheap uk system.

That would be democracy , most of the people paying for this dont even use it.

The capacity issue or space issue, really doesn't hold water.

The money issue is much more important as were all now finding out.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-12-2012 01:36AM

The MPEG2-only boxes are dirt cheap because they are obsolete junk.

If you've never heard anyone complaining about Freeview you haven't been looking very hard. How about several retunes during the various phases of the switchover for many people, realignment of aerials from an existing tx because it only does 'Freeview Lite', tx changing aerial group then changing back again at ASO, several generations of older boxes being obsoleted overnight at various times, including boxes which worked right up to ASO and then failed. People who thought they'd made the 'digital switch' and could watch 'better quality TV', then realised they'd been had and they'd never get HD on that equipment.

Karsini is spot on, this is exactly the same argument that said we should have gone with the obsolete 405 standard in 1962 because that was what the UK were still using (even though they were already planning to phase it out.)

Buy cheap - buy twice.

Hotblack Desiato · 18-12-2012 01:59AM

scruffy66 wrote: »

Anyway im in dublin ,picking up Full FREEVIEW from divis with over 70 channels. Picture quality excellent, HD Channels etc.

So if you have FreeviewHD equipment, what's the problem?

You're getting lots of FTA TV on a box which can cost under 100 euro

What IS the problem again? This is the golden age of FTA TV in Ireland. Unless you are old enough to remember having to pay through the nose (either for a huge aerial, or cable) to get 3 channels of often poor reception UK TV and one channel here, you don't know you're born :pac:

Now we're lucky enough that the entire country can get Freesat/FTA UK channels all over the island easily with a small dish. We have perfect reception of more Irish channels than we've had before, over a larger area than was ever covered before by any sort of decent reception. And many more people than before can get UK terrestrial TV with the right aerial and a relatively inexpensive FreeviewHD box, which also receives the Irish channels.

Digital boxes are cheap - even the most sophisticated PVRs (Humax Foxsat etc) are a small fraction of the real cost of a VHS video 25 or 30 years ago. Rental of TVs and videos was popular for years because they were so expensive then compared to the income of most people - now we have people complaining because instead of regarding a TV or box as an investment, it's something they expect to buy out of their spare change that week.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-12-2012 02:17AM

MPEG-4 is a no brainer.

All the early adopters of MPEG-2 , UK, Italy, Germany are using MPEG-4 for HD

It also saves a lot on transmitter power , or if you look at it from the other side you get more channels per mux.

And the only difference between the now obsolete MPEG2 and MPEG4 is the decoder chip after the tuner, and at this stage they are literally as chip as chips. In fact if you have one of the €6 USB dongles this decoding can be done in software by your computer, no chip needed.

It's not like the US where the royalties on the patents of the decoder chips are the most expensive part of a receiver.

Yes a T2 tuner would save even more on transmitter power, but they were a premium price when saorview was first launched and anyway will be standard on all devices submitted for approval from next year

Yes not having MHEG would mean we could have used the same HD equipment used in other European countries - pick a standard

watty · 18-12-2012 09:04AM

T2 wasn't out of the oven when Saorview rollout started.
MHP was only alternative to MHEG5 when Saorview was rolling out. It's nearly dead and even less gear supports it. MHEG5 is free, no royalties.
The US system is inferior, a political compromise, which is why DVB-s is used on Satellite and DVB-c on Cable. Only DVB-t isn't used.

STB · 18-12-2012 11:16AM

Your on a loser here Scruffy. MPEG2 is obsolete. The UK now have the problem of having 2 different codec standards on two different tuner platforms in their broadcasting profile. .

It will be years before they can drop the SD stations due to the amount of this obsolete hardware that is on the market in the UK.

The only mistake Ireland made was insisting on MHEG5 which has added a weird required tweak to what otherwise would have been a straightforward off the shelf Nordig profile box.

Tony · 18-12-2012 12:12PM

STB wrote: »

The only mistake Ireland made was insisting on MHEG5 which has added a weird required tweak to what otherwise would have been a straightforward off the shelf Nordig profile box.

Indeed , expecting mainstream manufacturers to make boxes in big numbers just for Ireland was unwise.

Sam Russell · 18-12-2012 12:29PM

Equally unwise was getting a Swedish company to do the certification. There should have been two levels of certification where a basic level allowed the reception of the signal, with a full bells-and-whistles version did every thing, including series link.

It is all done now. We just have to put up with what we have (and should have had years ago).

RTE are still not treating Saorview as their primary broadcasting platform

Tony · 18-12-2012 12:36PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Equally unwise was getting a Swedish company to do the certification.

I agree especially one which has ties to boxer

Sam Russell wrote: »

There should have been two levels of certification where a basic level allowed the reception of the signal, with a full bells-and-whistles version did every thing, including series link.

Makes sense but I'm not sure that would not lead to confusion for consumers.

18-12-2012 12:46PM

Tony wrote: »

I agree especially one which has ties to boxer

Makes sense but I'm not sure that would not lead to confusion for consumers.

It could have ended up being a repeat of Microsoft's "Vista ready" and "Vista Premium Ready" scandal.

STB · 18-12-2012 02:10PM

Tony wrote: »

Makes sense but I'm not sure that would not lead to confusion for consumers.

Forgetting full Dual PVR facilities, its too late, we couldnt even get the basic spec right. RTENL should not have been allowed change the minimum requirements specification document after the "official" launch by the Minister for Communications on 26/05/11.

We now have the most ridiculous situation whereby there are certified Saorview boxes on the market that will effectively be obsolete in 14 days time. From the 1st January, 2013 products submitted for certification must have a DVB-T2 tuner module as a minmium requirement.

With the small number of manufacturers/OEMs that have actually submitted and paid for certification up until now, they must be wondering what shower of eejits they are dealing with.

Dual Tuner PVR boxes are not going to work here as small number of channel content do not warrant the expense of such functionality.

scruffy66 · 19-12-2012 12:27AM

STB wrote: »

Your on a loser here Scruffy. MPEG2 is obsolete. The UK now have the problem of having 2 different codec standards on two different tuner platforms in their broadcasting profile.

Yeah, was on a loser there, a hiding to nothing.

Still [ if mpeg 4 had of been around] you would wonder if FREEVIEW had of had mpeg 4 to begin with, would there have even been a need for SAORVIEW at all.
They probably would have insisted on using mpeg 5 anyway, just to be different ,after all the ego would have insisted:D

Willby · 19-12-2012 09:44AM

Saorview is just a brand name so once Ireland went digital as obliged under EU regulations it would have to have a name.

watty · 19-12-2012 01:45PM

No, Saorview isn't JUST a brandname. DVB-T is a VERY lowest common denominator. It's the branding for the specific implementation details and FREE to Air (only) Irish Terrestrial TV platform.

Neither is Freeview, Freesat, UPC or Sky "just" a brand name. Though UPC and Sky are names of companies with services (All Subscription only based) other than TV too.

Saorview PVR Box has arrived.

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