Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Pregnant woman dies in UCHG after being refused a termination

1…3233353738…99

Comments

  • #1022
    saspeir
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭saspeir


    Rodin wrote: »
    Complete rubbish.
    Care to enlighten us so?

    My source was what I picked up off a professional talking on Pat Kenny this morning.


  • #1023
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    billybudd wrote: »
    Look i dont want to turn this into an argument and i am not a CC apologist. It is the peoples fault for not demanding more clarity after the X case and for it to be legislated and its the governments fault for not having the balls to get this done, plus they should have made provision for a new referendum and let the population decide as it has been too long since the last one especially with the mind set having changed so much since then in regard to the CC.

    My point is that by blaming the CC it takes away from the shortcomings of the people who should be held accountable.

    I said the CC are partly to blame. The CC views on abortion as shameful act and some people look up to the CC and follow them and their views. It could also be possible to believe in pro-life and not look up to the CC. I don't know. The CC may not have a part to play in this case but they do have a part to play in Ireland's backwards position on abortion.

    Your post applies that we are to blame. How so


  • #1024
    phoenix999
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 581 ✭✭✭phoenix999


    Wasn't this the same hospital that failed to diagnose breast cancer in a woman on three occasions? She had to go to Cork to be correctly diagnosed. Incompetence of the highest order. Why do the staff involved never seem to face any consequences for their actions?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/doctors-failed-three-times-to-diagnose-my-breast-cancer-3256465.html


  • #1025
    Ann22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,005 ✭✭✭Ann22


    I've had 5 miscarriages, each one I've been bleeding for up to a week before I've passed the fetus and placenta, a d&c wasn't performed in any until this happened. I'm sure my cervix was open a fair bit for all this time and I was in pain and an emotional wreck the whole time. If there was the slightest hint of a heartbeat I'd have wanted to hold on.

    What happened this girl was an absolute tragedy and my thoughts and prayers go out to her loved ones. I'd say similar things happen all the time but thankfully don't end in the death of the mother. I wouldn't imagine for a minute that the doctors thought her life was in danger.

    I had a heavy bleed at 16wks with my son and thank God he survived. I was told at around 16-17 wks the placenta moves upwards and at this time there can be some blood loss. Maybe the doctors thought that this is what was happening this girl.

    If this poor girl had've had an abortion, she could well have been tortured with regret and fear that maybe, just maybe her little one may have survived. I know well the irrational feelings of guilt and remorse that occurs after the trauma of miscarriage, 'maybe I shouldn't have lifted those heavy shopping bags' or 'maybe I didn't rest enough'. I can't imagine how I'd feel if the doctors had removed my baby at my request no matter how many times I was told that there was no hope of survival.:(


  • #1026
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    One of what?

    Yes, I'd very much like you to elaborate too, in the most unambiguous terms, what exactly you mean by that.


  • Advertisement
  • #1027
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    saspeir wrote: »
    Care to enlighten us so?

    My source was what I picked up off a professional talking on Pat Kenny this morning.

    Septicaemia is simply an infection of the blood with large numbers of bacteria present. It does not have to have started in an organ. An intravenous drug user can introduce infection by way of a syringe directly into the blood stream. No organ infection needs to be present first.


  • #1028
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    I said the CC are partly to blame. The CC views on abortion as shameful act and some people look up to the CC and follow them and their views. It could also be possible to believe in pro-life and not look up to the CC. I don't know. The CC may not have a part to play in this case but they do have a part to play in Ireland's backwards position on abortion.

    Your post applies that we are to blame. How so


    We elect the goverment and maybe we prioritise the wrong things, this subject has by the majority of people been ignored for the guts of 20 yrs, are we not partly to blame for not getting it properly legislated before so there is no question to what is allowed and what is not? I mean i dont think there has been this much debate or profile about abortion since the x case in 1992.

    I think that may have been true a decade ago, i dont think the CC have much power over people now, esp people under 50.


  • #1029
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,946 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Tragedy wrote: »
    Right, and what details am I missing? Because ya know, my whole point was people should wait for details before leaping to join a cause.






    Actually, I think you'll find people are using this to forward their own personal opinions and viewpoints and Jill_Valentine does indeed seem to be cheapening the death of a woman to forward her own viewpoint.

    Also, good job on the whole evil ends bit, way to condescend rather than address. A+


    Wait... Your argument is that others should wait to hear details before leaping to a cause?

    Do you read your own posts?


  • #1030
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    The previous government were able to give us
    - a plastic bag levy
    - a smoking ban
    - off licenses close at 10pm
    - the banning of headshops

    and yet they weren't ever able to give us anything on abortion. Why not? Is it a topic no politician wants to touch?


  • #1031
    saspeir
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭saspeir


    Rodin wrote: »
    Septicaemia is simply an infection of the blood with large numbers of bacteria present. It does not have to have started in an organ. An intravenous drug user can introduce infection by way of a syringe directly into the blood stream. No organ infection needs to be present first.
    Yes, but usually it is from an organ or body part? This woman was clearly not a drug user. You said my information was 'complete rubbish'. Care to say why that is?


  • Advertisement
  • #1032
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    Tragedy wrote: »
    You don't know how she got septicemia, you know a possible way she got it. You did lie!

    No I don't know but it's fairly obvious how she contacted it.

    If it makes you feel better I will say I lied. You are acting like a spoilt child who has to get his own way.


  • #1033
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    saspeir wrote: »
    I presume your faith is Catholicism... If that is the case then no, I can't. Pope Benedick, your main man is against abortion. He's also not for the a la carte. You obviously ain't got your head around that. :confused:

    You'd presume wrong. Something which, reading this thread, you do an awful lot of the time.


  • #1034
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    The previous government were able to give us
    - a plastic bag levy
    - a smoking ban
    - off licenses close at 10pm
    - the banning of headshops

    and yet they weren't ever able to give us anything on abortion. Why not? Is it a topic no politician wants to touch?


    where was the demand for it?

    and yes they didnt want to confront it because as you see it is a very devisive thing and yes they will get it in the neck by both sets of groups with agendas of their own.


  • #1035
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Rodin wrote: »
    Septicaemia is simply an infection of the blood with large numbers of bacteria present. It does not have to have started in an organ. An intravenous drug user can introduce infection by way of a syringe directly into the blood stream. No organ infection needs to be present first.

    So it was a coincidence that she arrived in hosiptal with severe backpain, was eventually diagnosed to be miscarrying, was told it would be over in hours, then spent three full days in increasing pain, fever and incapacity waiting for the miscarriage to be over.

    And then died.

    Of septicaemia.


  • #1036
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    B0jangles wrote: »
    So it was a coincidence that she arrived in hosiptal with severe backpain, was eventually diagnosed to be miscarrying, was told it would be over in hours, then spent three full days in increasing pain, fever and incapacity waiting for the miscarriage to be over.

    And then died.

    Of septicaemia.

    I think you are arguing against a point I haven't even made.


  • #1037
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    B0jangles wrote: »
    So it was a coincidence that she arrived in hosiptal with severe backpain, was eventually diagnosed to be miscarrying, was told it would be over in hours, then spent three full days in increasing pain, fever and incapacity waiting for the miscarriage to be over.

    And then died.

    Of septicaemia.

    She was actually told she was miscarrying a week before she died, so she was miscarrying at home for 4 days before going to the hospital. Which means her cervix was at least partially opened for 4 days before she presented at hospital with the back pain etc.


  • #1038
    OMD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    B0jangles wrote: »

    So it was a coincidence that she arrived in hosiptal with severe backpain, was eventually diagnosed to be miscarrying, was told it would be over in hours, then spent three full days in increasing pain, fever and incapacity waiting for the miscarriage to be over.

    And then died.

    Of septicaemia.
    Did the miscarriage cause the septicaemia or did the septicaemia cause the miscarriage?
    Did the miscarriage or live baby effect in any way the treatment she received?


  • #1039
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Lingua Franca wrote: »

    She was actually told she was miscarrying a week before she died, so she was miscarrying at home for 4 days before going to the hospital.

    I think she was in the hospital for a week. Four days until she miscarried (collapsing on the third), then ill and getting worse for the next three or so.


  • #1040
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    Ann22 wrote: »
    I've had 5 miscarriages, each one I've been bleeding for up to a week before I've passed the fetus and placenta, a d&c wasn't performed in any until this happened. I'm sure my cervix was open a fair bit for all this time and I was in pain and an emotional wreck the whole time. If there was the slightest hint of a heartbeat I'd have wanted to hold on.

    What happened this girl was an absolute tragedy and my thoughts and prayers go out to her loved ones. I'd say similar things happen all the time but thankfully don't end in the death of the mother. I wouldn't imagine for a minute that the doctors thought her life was in danger.

    I had a heavy bleed at 16wks with my son and thank God he survived. I was told at around 16-17 wks the placenta moves upwards and at this time there can be some blood loss. Maybe the doctors thought that this is what was happening this girl.

    If this poor girl had've had an abortion, she could well have been tortured with regret and fear that maybe, just maybe her little one may have survived. I know well the irrational feelings of guilt and remorse that occurs after the trauma of miscarriage, 'maybe I shouldn't have lifted those heavy shopping bags' or 'maybe I didn't rest enough'. I can't imagine how I'd feel if the doctors had removed my baby at my request no matter how many times I was told that there was no hope of survival.:(

    My niece has had three miscarriages.(None of them in Galway)
    Standard practice in each case, even though the baby was already dead, was to wait until she miscarried naturally. On one occasion, that took two weeks.
    Each time, she was given a course of antibiotics until the baby was miscarried, and for a week afterwards, to ward off infection/septicaemia.

    It appears to be standard medical practice. My niece was told it was because the risk related to infection was regarded as lower than the risks associated with D&C.
    Hence, afaik, the whole abortion thing appears to be a complete red herring.

    My sincere condolences to the family involved. R.I.P.


  • #1041
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    mhge wrote: »
    I think she was in the hospital for a week. Four days until she miscarried (collapsing on the third), then ill and getting worse for the next three or so.


    Ah, you're right. Thanks for clearing that up.


  • Advertisement
  • #1042
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    billybudd wrote: »
    where was the demand for it?

    and yes they didnt want to confront it because as you see it is a very devisive thing and yes they will get it in the neck by both sets of groups with agendas of their own.

    Where was the demand for
    - a plastic bag levy?
    - a smoking ban?
    - early closure of offlicenses?
    - the banning of headshops?

    And yet they were able to do all this without any demands. Why not abortion? Are we supposed to go into the Dail, hold their hands and do their work?


  • #1043
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    57 women have died while pregnant from sepsis in the UK between the years 2000-2008.

    All those waving their placards and shouting aloud that she'd have been grand had she had a surgical evacuation really need to get their facts straight.

    The sad truth is that things go wrong. Was someone negligent? A report will tell us in time. But there is no guarantee that a woman will make it through pregnancy with all the care in the world. Thankfully that case is much rarer in Ireland than in most other countries including those with much less scruples regarding abortion.


  • #1044
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    OMD wrote: »
    Did the miscarriage cause the septicaemia or did the septicaemia cause miscarriage?

    Miscarriage process preceded septicaemia signs by a few days so it's probably the former.


  • #1045
    franktheplank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭franktheplank


    phoenix999 wrote: »
    Wasn't this the same hospital that failed to diagnose breast cancer in a woman on three occasions? She had to go to Cork to be correctly diagnosed. Incompetence of the highest order. Why do the staff involved never seem to face any consequences for their actions?

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/doctors-failed-three-times-to-diagnose-my-breast-cancer-3256465.html

    Unfortunately this woman isn't to first to die while in the health care system. There wasn't quite the same demands for referendums on the other occaisions though.

    Is this tragedy (blameless or not) being co-opted by the pro-choice movement? Also did this woman 'choose' to have a miscarraige, 'choose' to become ill?

    I think the circumstances under which she asked for an abortion we're not a free choice. As such i think it's very wrong for her to suddenly become the poster-child of the 'pro-choice' movement.

    Pro-medical abortion or something along those line fine, any one that wants to argue that point is fine by me. But calling this 'pro-choice' is sick and twisted imho.


  • #1046
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    The more I hear about this the less I think this is about the need for choice or abortion but that this hospital incompetence. I am in favour of legislation for the X case however maybe they just ****ed up.

    I wonder how much was this due to staff and the fact it was a bank holiday weekend rather than anything to do with the law. The fact that somebody said "its a catholic country" might have been right at the start, we don't know the context. This seems to be just being reported from the Irish Times article all over the place when its not really clear what went on. I think there is more to this then meets the eye.


  • #1047
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,946 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    franktheplank wrote: »
    Unfortunately this woman isn't to first to die while in the health care system. There wasn't quite the same demands for referendums on the other occaisions though.

    Is this tragedy (blameless or not) being co-opted by the pro-choice movement? Also did this woman 'choose' to have a miscarraige, 'choose' to become ill?

    I think the circumstances under which she asked for an abortion we're not a free choice. As such i think it's very wrong for her to suddenly become the poster-child of the 'pro-choice' movement.

    Pro-medical abortion or something along those line fine, any one that wants to argue that point is fine by me. But calling this 'pro-choice' is sick and twisted imho.

    According to the widower they chose to terminate the nonviable foetus to protect the dwindling health of the mother. That choice was taken away from them.
    calling this 'pro-choice' is sick and twisted imho.


  • #1048
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    ilovesleep wrote: »
    Where was the demand for
    - a plastic bag levy?
    - a smoking ban?
    - early closure of offlicenses?
    - the banning of headshops?

    And yet they were able to do all this without any demands. Why not abortion? Are we supposed to go into the Dail, hold their hands and do their work?


    Because they are easy things to legislate for, abortion is not.

    I am not saying it is right.

    No we are not suppose to hold their hands, but we are not meant to ignore issues as serious as abortion and all its implications and leave it to be ignored by our government, the one we elected, we are constantly meant to question government and lobby it if we think something needs to be brought to the surface.

    In the US abortion is a big issue and is very often protested at and often weekly there is protests outside the whitehouse so the government do have to confront it and then we know where members of government stand and we can vote them in or our on those beliefs, you very rarely see that here because until something like this happens then no one really cares.


  • #1049
    JackPerry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭JackPerry


    "Apparently the women was told "this is a Catholic country, we don't have abortion"
    I have not read all the comments on this issue but has anyone given consideration that these words may have been stated by a Non Catholic ,non Irish doctor or nurse who were actually criticising the situation as it stands and felt powerless to do anything. Equally the words could could have been stated by a Irish person who is critical of the present policies.


  • #1050
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    The more I hear about this the less I think this is about the need for choice or abortion but that this hospital incompetence. I am in favour of legislation for the X case however maybe they just ****ed up.

    I wonder how much was this due to staff and the fact it was a bank holiday weekend rather than anything to do with the law. The fact that somebody said "its a catholic country" might have been right at the start, we don't know the context. This seems to be just being reported from the Irish Times article all over the place when its not really clear what went on. I think there is more to this then meets the eye.

    It's being reported everywhere...just google it.
    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741


  • Advertisement
  • #1051
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    JackPerry wrote: »
    "Apparently the women was told "this is a Catholic country, we don't have abortion"
    I have not read all the comments on this issue but has anyone given consideration that these words may have been stated by a Non Catholic ,non Irish doctor or nurse who were actually criticising the situation as it stands and felt powerless to do anything. Equally the words could could have been stated by a Irish person who is critical of the present policies.

    Yes, this is a good point. We don't know what the context is.


Advertisement