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Pregnant woman dies in UCHG after being refused a termination

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Comments

  • #992
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    keano_afc wrote: »
    Sshhh, the adults are talking.
    Adults know the difference between having issues with religions which influence state, hatred, and not believing in fictional beings.


  • #993
    Callan57
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭Callan57


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    Yes he could. It is clearly established that abortion is legal in the case of risk of life to the mother. Abortions are routinely carried out in the case of ectopic pregnancies here even.[/QUOTE]

    Ah but we don't call them abortions .... it's all about the angels dancing on the head of the pin - the Irish solution as always, hypocrisy.:rolleyes:


  • #994
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    Yes he could. It is clearly established that abortion is legal in the case of risk of life to the mother. Abortions are routinely carried out in the case of ectopic pregnancies here even.

    An ectopic pregnancy will put the mothers life in danger immediately, in this case the woman's life was not in danger when she was admitted to the hospital.
    It should have been a normal miscarriage but it wasn't. The baby was still alive and the doctors IMO neglected her.
    They probably hoped the baby would miscarry naturally and the mother would be ok.


  • #995
    golden lane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    trial by forum ?????.......time to change the constitution ........again.....


  • #996
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    Yes he could. It is clearly established that abortion is legal in the case of risk of life to the mother. Abortions are routinely carried out in the case of ectopic pregnancies here even.

    No it was generally established. There was no clear rules set out by the supreme court. They left that to the government.
    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    So the hospital and consultant done a brilliant job so, no questions to answer case closed!

    They did all they could legally do in this country.


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  • #997
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Tragedy wrote: »
    Really, where did you read that?

    I mean it's true that the cervix being fully dilated carries a high risk of infection, but I don't recall reading anywhere that that was deemed to be the case in this situation.

    Any chance you could provide proof, or are you another spoofer drawing wonky conclusions and facts from supposition?
    If you had read it anywhere then by your own criteria you would have to discount it as it came from the press in some for or other.


  • #998
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Cool Mo D wrote: »
    Yes he could. It is clearly established that abortion is legal in the case of risk of life to the mother. Abortions are routinely carried out in the case of ectopic pregnancies here even.


    There is no clearly, thats the point.


  • #999
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    If you had read it anywhere then by your own criteria you would have to discount it as it came from the press in some for or other.

    Is this not the point? Nobody here knows the full facts, yet it hasnt stopped the majority of posters from making their own minds up about what has happened.


  • #1000
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    keano_afc wrote: »
    Is this not the point? Nobody here knows the full facts, yet it hasnt stopped the majority of posters from making their own minds up about what has happened.
    Some have some have not. From whence else do we get our info?


  • #1001
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    Tragedy wrote: »
    Really, where did you read that?

    I mean it's true that the cervix being fully dilated carries a high risk of infection, but I don't recall reading anywhere that that was deemed to be the case in this situation.

    Any chance you could provide proof, or are you another spoofer drawing wonky conclusions and facts from supposition?

    Well considering she was having a miscarriage, her cervix was open then it is fairly safe to assume this is how she got the infection.
    If you want proof wait for the report.


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  • #1002
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    If you had read it anywhere then by your own criteria you would have to discount it as it came from the press in some for or other.

    What are you talking about? I haven't seen a single news report or press release state that the definitive cause of this woman's death, yet this thread is full of people willing to tell me what definitely 100% caused her death.

    I'm more than entitled to ask for some evidence when people are making claims like that.


  • #1003
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    Well considering she was having a miscarriage, her cervix was open then it is fairly safe to assume this is how she got the infection.
    If you want proof wait for the report.
    Oh, so your definitive fact is actually just supposition and opinion?

    Nice of you to spoof about it, cheers.

    Out of curiosity, are you a medical professional, or from whence comes your expert medical opinion?


  • #1004
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Tragedy wrote: »
    What are you talking about? I haven't seen a single news report or press release state that the definitive cause of this woman's death, yet this thread is full of people willing to tell me what definitely 100% caused her death.

    I'm more than entitled to ask for some evidence when people are making claims like that.

    You're getting fixated on what amounts to a semantic issue because it makes you feel like you're right, but what difference does it actually make to the substance of the debate?

    She died of septicemia that was almost certainly caused by her protracted miscarriage. "Almost certainly" is not different enough from "Very certainly" to have any bearing on the material point.


  • #1005
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    Tragedy wrote: »
    Oh, so your definitive fact is actually just supposition and opinion?

    Nice of you to spoof about it, cheers.

    What is your problem? Did she die from blood poisoning ? How do you think this happened?


  • #1006
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    the internet is great at giving people an opportunity to have their voice heard. Unfortunately that means the uneducated and illinformed are all the louder.

    Anyone who is an medical professional, put your hands up. Anyone else, pipe down. you REALLY don't know what you're talking about.

    No report is released yet. And until it is, all else is conjecture and supposition.

    How anyone with no medical background thinks their opinion on this subject is even worth hearing I have no idea. Even with said background, I doubt anyone here was present in the hospital, so please, refrain.


  • #1007
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    You're getting fixated on what amounts to a semantic issue because it makes you feel like you're right, but what difference does it actually make to the substance of the debate?
    I'm getting fixated on semantic issues because it makes me feel like I'm right? About what? All I've said so far was that people were jumping on the bandwagon too quickly for my liking, based on there being very few facts about the case around.

    This thread isn't about an Abortion debate, it's about the death of a woman - although your callous and cavalier attitude probably shouldn't surprise me at this stage as so far you only seem to care about the abortion debate and not a whit about the death of a person.
    She died of septicemia that was almost certainly caused by her protracted miscarriage. "Almost certainly" is not different enough from "Very certainly" to have any bearing on the material point.
    Where does almost certainly come from?


  • #1008
    Rodin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    saspeir wrote: »
    Did the Bible tell you that? Septicemia occurs once an infection has developed in an organ, the womb in this case, and then breaks out into the blood.

    Don't be a sciolist and pretend you know it all.

    Complete rubbish.


  • #1009
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    What is your problem? Did she die from blood poisoning ? How do you think this happened?

    My problem is people lying about 'facts' to suit their opinion and viewpoint.

    You stated the definitive cause of her death. No-one as yet seems to know the definitive cause of her death past septicemia.

    You lied.


  • #1010
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Tragedy wrote: »
    I'm getting fixated on semantic issues because it makes me feel like I'm right? About what? All I've said so far was that people were jumping on the bandwagon too quickly for my liking, based on there being very few facts about the case around.

    This thread isn't about an Abortion debate, it's about the death of a woman - although your callous and cavalier attitude probably shouldn't surprise me at this stage as so far you only seem to care about the abortion debate and not a whit about the death of a person.


    And your sympathy was expressed where, exactly? Your own posts have been beyond callous and cavalier and seem to be more about attacking other posters than anything else.


  • #1011
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,946 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Tragedy wrote: »
    What are you talking about? I haven't seen a single news report or press release state that the definitive cause of this woman's death, yet this thread is full of people willing to tell me what definitely 100% caused her death.

    I'm more than entitled to ask for some evidence when people are making claims like that.

    Did you just read the headlines and then kinda come up with the point at which you are going to stick your head in the sand before you heard any of the details?

    Tragedy wrote: »
    I'm getting fixated on semantic issues because it makes me feel like I'm right? About what? All I've said so far was that people were jumping on the bandwagon too quickly for my liking, based on there being very few facts about the case around.

    This thread isn't about an Abortion debate, it's about the death of a woman - although your callous and cavalier attitude probably shouldn't surprise me at this stage as so far you only seem to care about the abortion debate and not a whit about the death of a person.


    Where does almost certainly come from?


    Actually I think you'll find people are not using this to forward an abortions for everyone debate or cheapening the death of a woman to forward their own evil ends.

    The issue here is that the medical treatment given to a woman who suffered a miscarriage was less than what it should be because of a technicality.

    The woman is now dead.

    People have every right to be angry about that.


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  • #1012
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    saspeir wrote: »
    I don't hold particularly strong emotions for fictitious characters.

    Dangerous and irrationally held beliefs that take lives on the other hand...

    I believe in God. My faith is very strong and very important to me. I also believe that a foetal termination should be carried out if there is a real threat to the life of the mother.

    Can you get your narrow mind around that?


  • #1013
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    And your sympathy was expressed where, exactly? Your own posts have been beyond callous and cavalier and seem to be more about attacking other posters than anything else.
    Why would I express my sympathy to strangers on the internet?

    Also, do show where my posts have been callous and cavalier over the death of this poor woman?


  • #1014
    HeyThereDeliah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    Tragedy wrote: »
    My problem is people lying about 'facts' to suit their opinion and viewpoint.

    You stated the definitive cause of her death. No-one as yet seems to know the definitive cause of her death past septicemia.

    You lied.

    I never stated the cause of her death, I stated how in this case she got septicaemia. I did not lie.


  • #1015
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Tragedy wrote: »
    This thread isn't about an Abortion debate, it's about the death of a woman - although your callous and cavalier attitude probably shouldn't surprise me at this stage as so far you only seem to care about the abortion debate and not a whit about the death of a person.

    I am inclined to suggest you're projecting. Either that, or you're reading posts other than mine.

    I am neither callous nor cavalier in my attitude towards this case. I find it incredibly frustrating and deeply upsetting that a woman could spend three days in unnecessary agony because our legislators don't have the decency to get their acts together.

    I care about the abortion debate because I do not believe that the circumstances which allowed this death to happen are tolerable. This is not an acceptable loss, somebody died a horrible death that could have been avoided. This woman was denied the best medical response for her situation, to no end except hers, and that is why the legislation matters.


  • #1016
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    K-9 wrote: »
    The X case wouldn't have helped this woman when she initially found out she was having a miscarriage, from press reports.

    I think there is a huge body of opinion out there that thinks legislating for the X case would be a panacea, its still very limited and mostly deals with suicide being treated as justifiable cause.

    I'm no expert but the X case wouldn't have been much use to this woman who wanted to "abort" a baby, she was going to miscarry anyway.

    Here here.


  • #1017
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Tragedy wrote: »
    Why would I express my sympathy to strangers on the internet?

    Because you're complaining that others don't care one whit about a woman's death when you've not shown any sign that you do either.
    Also, do show where my posts have been callous and cavalier over the death of this poor woman?


    Tragedy wrote: »
    It's awesome that you know that. How did you get an advance copy of the autopsy report/inquiry?

    It's awesome that you know that. How did you get an advance copy of the autopsy report/inquiry?


    It's awesome that you know that. How did you get an advance copy of the autopsy report/inquiry?

    Also, you can speak with the dead? I have some people I'd like you to get in touch with, ta.

    Also this little gem:
    Tragedy wrote: »
    Septicemia is an infection in the blood, it tells us nothing about how it was caused.



    I don't know.

    Neither do you.

    The point I'm making is you're arrogantly and thunderously posting as if you know all the facts already and the only conclusion to be made is your conclusion.

    You know no more than anyone else, so do stop being so arrogant.

    Now, are you going to admit you don't know the details of her death and were in fact bull****ting in your prior posts?
    Are you also willing to admit you can't speak to(or for) the dead so don't in fact know what reaction would be the most insulting for her? (handy that the reaction you chose is one diametrically opposed to your point of view).

    Stop raping this womans memory for your own purpose, stop lying and bull****ting while doing so.

    Someone died, have some ****ing respect for her and her memory, she's more than a way for you to achieve whatever agenda you're trying to forward.

    Raping this woman's memory? Pretty disgusting terminology there.


  • #1018
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    Did you just read the headlines and then kinda come up with the point at which you are going to stick your head in the sand before you heard any of the details?
    Right, and what details am I missing? Because ya know, my whole point was people should wait for details before leaping to join a cause.




    Actually I think you'll find people are not using this to forward an abortions for everyone debate or cheapening the death of a woman to forward their own evil ends.
    Actually, I think you'll find people are using this to forward their own personal opinions and viewpoints and Jill_Valentine does indeed seem to be cheapening the death of a woman to forward her own viewpoint.

    Also, good job on the whole evil ends bit, way to condescend rather than address. A+

    Just a couple I noticed on Twitter from the Savita protest/vigil:
    Ruth Coppinger 'we need a separation of church and state'
    Ellie a pro-choice activist says it 'should be a right to choose'
    'No longer can abortion be stigmatised'
    The issue here is that the medical treatment given to a woman who suffered a miscarriage was less than what it should be because of a technicality.

    The woman is now dead.

    People have every right to be angry about that.
    Sure, but people might want to wait and find out what to angry about first.


  • #1019
    saspeir
    Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭saspeir


    keano_afc wrote: »
    I believe in God. My faith is very strong and very important to me. I also believe that a foetal termination should be carried out if there is a real threat to the life of the mother.

    Can you get your narrow mind around that?
    I presume your faith is Catholicism... If that is the case then no, I can't. Pope Benedick, your main man is against abortion. He's also not for the a la carte. You obviously ain't got your head around that. :confused:


  • #1020
    Tragedy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Tragedy


    HeyThereDeliah wrote: »
    I never stated the cause of her death, I stated how in this case she got septicaemia. I did not lie.

    You don't know how she got septicemia, you know a possible way she got it. You did lie!
    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    Because you're complaining that others don't care one whit about a woman's death when you've not shown any sign that you do either.
    There's quite a big difference between showing signs you don't care, and showing no signs either way.






    Also this little gem
    How is it callous or cavalier to ask a poster how they're getting definitive factual information on cause of death that no-one else seems to have?
    It isn't? Oh right, do feel free to apologise so.
    Someone died, have some ****ing respect for her and her memory
    Ya, terribly callous and cavalier. My apologies for wanting people to treat someone who just died with some respect.

    Raping this woman's memory? Pretty disgusting terminology there.
    Oh right, you're one of those.


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  • #1021
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    One of what?


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