Pregnant woman dies in UCHG after being refused a termination

HellFireClub · 14-11-2012 07:36PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

I think you'll find the abortion debate is a great deal more nuanced than just those that want abortion on demand versus those that don't. Continually pointing out the state of the economy as a reason why we shouldn't have these debates is a nonsense argument. What you consider a side issue like gay rights is something that can have a major impact on a sizeable portion of the population.

I personally don't know anyone who had any pressing demands for any of the following:

(1) Children being taken out of families and adopted off into other families.

(2) Oireachtas enquires

(3) Lisbon I & II

(4) Gay marriage

(5) Judges pensions

(6) Whatever the fúck is dreamed up next to distract us as a nation...

I do however, happen to know too many people who are suffering poverty, who are broke at the end of the month and who are at the end of their tether financially and who are suffering under all the attendant problems that comes with landing in those circumstances.

ninebeanrows · 14-11-2012 07:36PM

RayM wrote: »

It isn't. It isn't. And no.

Don't feed the troll!!

poeticseraphim · 14-11-2012 07:39PM

NinjaK wrote: »

Abortion is murder. Ireland is a Catholic country. Get over it.

I counter your fine arguement at the level it is at ...peados peados peados..

Spain Italy and portugal have abortion...../end argument.

Italy...has had abortion on demand since 1978

Spain more recently.
Portugal also has abortion.
We are not a catholic country anyway really are we??

Portugal is much more religious at first glance.

We don't make adultery illegal....we have contraception and divorce and we have removed legislation banning gay relationships.

And good old contraception.

In Ireland we legalized contraception one year after Italy legalized abortion on demand.Both are supposedly catholic countries.....

It is just that ' Irish mammies ' are built for child rare'in an notin else righ.... Ireland is a pro-life natiun..deal wit ih righ

Dah tadpole has righs....ah that puor woman....Laurd bless her an save her...I will pray for her so i will.....

We are not really catholic....have you seen Dublin at the weekends??

Don't give me this crap...I know Dublin...I know FF I know FG...Charlie Haughie was hardly Catholic in approaches to marriage.

Irish people have affairs ..they screw..they divorce they have gay relationships....welcome to Ireland....

Gongoozler · 14-11-2012 07:41PM

I don't get why numbers get exaggerated at protests; I was just down Kildare St myself, and there were maybe 200 people there, not 3-4000. hmm

Zulu · 14-11-2012 07:43PM

Gongoozler wrote: »

I don't get why numbers get exaggerated at protests; I was just down Kildare St myself, and there were maybe 200 people there, not 3-4000. hmm

to make it sound like a success, irregardless of the truth

hooradiation · 14-11-2012 07:43PM

NinjaK wrote: »

Abortion is murder. Ireland is a Catholic country. Get over it.

Oh hey, it's Kev_PS3s alt.

Wondered what happened to that kid....

kunst nugget · 14-11-2012 07:45PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

I personally don't know anyone who had any pressing demands for any of the following:

(1) Children being taken out of families and adopted off into other families.

(2) Oireachtas enquires

(3) Lisbon I & II

(4) Gay marriage

(5) Judges pensions

(6) Whatever the fúck is dreamed up next to distract us as a nation...

I do however, happen to know too many people who are suffering poverty, who are broke at the end of the month and who are at the end of their tether financially and who are suffering under all the attendant problems that comes with landing in those circumstances.

So, let me guess this right, if the economy is in the sh¡tter then in your eyes government should stop working at passing any legislation whatsoever and people should stop demanding change because Johnny that you know down the road is having a hard time of it and he doesn't care about the gays. Grand, so…

mac.in · 14-11-2012 07:47PM

Religion should be for the benefit of mankind. Human species should never be the scapegoats of the ill-factors and ill-effects of the religion; following blind practices without knowing their past true intentions should definitely be abandoned.
If we say abortion = murder, what about the lady who died. That lady had prepared herself for the noble job of giving birth. Unfortunately things went reverse and she herself ended up in a hard situation where she could lose her life and the life of unborn baby too. That situation did progress to the death of two lives.
Differentiate 'Abortion' and 'Medical Termination of Pregnancy' (MTP) with a rational understanding . MTP is definitely not abortion if one says abortion is killing; MTP is saving a life for a good reason with the expense (or in fact in most cases at no expense) of another life. If the lady had been treated with MTP, it would definitely have had her kept alive. And she would have been ready for a next pregnancy down the time thereby keeping the noble job of giving birth alive. So, if a religion is against murder; it means religion is for giving-birth. In this case, by not administering MTP, the religion is not followed, but paradoxically murdered.:(
I'm neither against nor for a religion. Also, I'm neither against nor for abortion. But, I'm cent percent for MTP.

who the fug · 14-11-2012 07:49PM

Winty wrote: »

As a Protestant born in donegal have I no place in your catholic Ireland

fraid you may have to join this atheist in London

poeticseraphim · 14-11-2012 07:52PM

Tragedy wrote: »

Eh, can you point out a single opinion poll that shows that the majority want open abortion? Any I've seen show a vast majority in favour of legislating the X case, but a slim majority still being against more general abortion.

Very big long post there with very little (nothing) to back it up.

JESUS...YES MANY

A January 2010 Irish Examiner/RedC poll about abortion in Ireland found that 60% felt abortion should be legalised, and 10% had been in a relationship in which an abortion had taken place.

A January 2010 opinion|poll conducted by Millward Brown Landsdown for the Pro Life Campaign found 70% of people questioned favored constitutional protection for the unborn under circumstances where intervention to save the mother's life was legal.

SO A PRO LIFE OPINION POLL FOUND THAT 70% of people question the favoured the unborn child. STILL THINK IT IS BIAS????

Referenda in 1992 and in 2002 rejected proposals to further restrict access to abortion. No referendum has ever been held to offer Irish people the opportunity to make access to abortion less restrictive; opinion polls, however, consistently indicate public support for less restrictive abortion regulation.

There are multitudinous polls i can show you...

A 2004 Crisis Pregnancy Agency study found that 90% of 18-45 year olds support abortion in certain circumstances, with 51% stating that women should always have to right to choose an abortion.That was eight years ago.

That red C poll was in 2010.

And you cannot claim bias in the case of the Millward Brown Landsdown for the Pro Life Campaign that foun 70 % of people disagree with the rights of the unborn as they stand.

That red C poll was in 2010. It found two years ago 60% of people favoured legalizing abortion.

I am surprised you even asked to be honest. It is like you live in a different country.

mehfesto · 14-11-2012 07:55PM

Looks like more than 200 now:
Link

poeticseraphim · 14-11-2012 07:55PM

The majority of Irish people favor legalizing abortion.

mac.in · 14-11-2012 07:56PM

poeticseraphim wrote: »

JESUS...YES MANY

A January 2010 Irish Examiner/RedC poll about abortion in Ireland found that 60% felt abortion should be legalised, and 10% had been in a relationship in which an abortion had taken place.

A January 2010 opinion|poll conducted by Millward Brown Landsdown for the Pro Life Campaign found 70% of people questioned favored constitutional protection for the unborn under circumstances where intervention to save the mother's life was legal.

SO A PRO LIFE OPINION POLL FOUND THAT 70% of people question the favoured the unborn child. STILL THINK IT IS BIAS????

Referenda in 1992 and in 2002 rejected proposals to further restrict access to abortion. No referendum has ever been held to offer Irish people the opportunity to make access to abortion less restrictive; opinion polls, however, consistently indicate public support for less restrictive abortion regulation.

There are multitudinous polls i can show you...

A 2004 Crisis Pregnancy Agency study found that 90% of 18-45 year olds support abortion in certain circumstances, with 51% stating that women should always have to right to choose an abortion.That was eight years ago.

That red C poll was in 2010.

And you cannot claim bias in the case of the Millward Brown Landsdown for the Pro Life Campaign that foun 70 % of people disagree with the rights of the unborn as they stand.

That red C poll was in 2010. It found two years ago 60% of people favoured legalizing abortion.

I am surprised you even asked to be honest. It is like you live in a different country.

Your facts and figures paralyze the hypocritical tongue. Keep it up!:)

Micky Dolenz · 14-11-2012 07:59PM

NinjaK wrote: »

Abortion is murder. Ireland is a Catholic country. Get over it.

Mod

Please don't post in this thread again. PM for clarification, if needed.

K-9 · 14-11-2012 08:06PM

The law didn't allow the consultant to "abort" the baby when the mother and father asked, assuming she was definitely going to have a miscarriage (it would seem the consultant was sure of this) and there was no immediate threat to the mother.

So there is an issue there, same with women who have to carry foetuses that stand no chance of survival to term or miscarriage. There is no danger to the mother so the law doesn't recognise them.

mac.in · 14-11-2012 08:13PM

K-9 wrote: »

The law didn't allow the consultant to "abort" the baby when the mother and father asked, assuming she was definitely going to have a miscarriage (it would seem the consultant was sure of this) and there was no immediate threat to the mother.

So there is an issue there, same with women who have to carry foetuses that stand no chance of survival to term or miscarriage. There is no danger to the mother so the law doesn't recognise them.

Adding to the previous post. That clearly says that the consultant had an option of giving the woman a choice of termination of pregnancy provided the law allowed him to do so. Does that mean the consultant's expertise in his medical knowledge is implicating that the law is somewhere wrong and not medically or scientifically based? (no offence meant)

mac.in · 14-11-2012 08:17PM

NinjaK wrote: »

Abortion is murder. Ireland is a Catholic country. Get over it.

In this case, by not providing abortion also there has been murder (that too 2 lives). So what does it stand for in respect of religion, Ireland, .....etc.

ibarelycare · 14-11-2012 08:18PM

OneIdea wrote: »

Just curious, whats the average age group?

Very mixed. Mainly 20s/early 30s I'd say but lots of older people as well.

ilovesleep · 14-11-2012 08:22PM

HellFireClub wrote: »

I personally don't know anyone who had any pressing demands for any of the following:

(1) Children being taken out of families and adopted off into other families.

(2) Oireachtas enquires

(3) Lisbon I & II

(4) Gay marriage

(5) Judges pensions

(6) Whatever the fúck is dreamed up next to distract us as a nation...

I do however, happen to know too many people who are suffering poverty, who are broke at the end of the month and who are at the end of their tether financially and who are suffering under all the attendant problems that comes with landing in those circumstances.

But wouldn't there be some sort of an economic benefit to abortion. Say for example I fall pregnant but my financial circumstances are so dire that I can't even afford a pair of shoes for myself, abortion would be the best thing for me instead of giving birth to a child and bringing him/her into poverty.

Also there would be less demands on the sw system with one less to pay out in child benefit.

MagicSean · 14-11-2012 08:23PM

poeticseraphim wrote: »

The majority of Irish people favor legalizing abortion.

Whats that opinion based on?

who the fug · 14-11-2012 08:26PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Whats that opinion based on?

did you not read his/her post above what you quoted

Show Time · 14-11-2012 08:30PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Whats that opinion based on?

It would be handy if you had a read of the thread.:rolleyes:

Zulu · 14-11-2012 08:30PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

But wouldn't there be some sort of an economic benefit to abortion..

Depends on how you look at it. If the child grows up to be a fully productive member of society, they'd cost the state less & contribute more in taxes.

Aside from their "potential" - cure cancer, solve the economic crisis, invent the replicator....

MagicSean · 14-11-2012 08:31PM

who the fug wrote: »

did you not read his/her post above what you quoted

It contradicted itself.

K-9 · 14-11-2012 08:31PM

mac.in wrote: »

Adding to the previous post. That clearly says that the consultant had an option of giving the woman a choice of termination of pregnancy provided the law allowed him to do so. Does that mean the consultant's expertise in his medical knowledge is implicating that the law is somewhere wrong and not medically or scientifically based? (no offence meant)

Well the law says the mothers life must be at risk, it would appear the consultant did not think it was initially so his hands were tied. If her life is not at significant risk medical or scientific knowledge is irrelevant, legally.

who the fug · 14-11-2012 08:32PM

MagicSean wrote: »

It contradicted itself.

Whilst it looks that way, continue on and he/she explains it

saspeir · 14-11-2012 08:34PM

Matters such as this make me ashamed to be Irish.

This story has just been on Channel 4 news. The presenter warned "that some viewers may find the report disturbing". You normally get that kind of warning before some war report or a report with images of mutilated bodies.

Catholic Church = Scum!

who the fug · 14-11-2012 08:38PM

saspeir wrote: »

Matters such as this make me ashamed to be Irish.

This story has just been on Channel 4 news. The presenter warned "that some viewers may find the report disturbing". You normally get that kind of warning before some war report or a report with images of mutilated bodies.

Catholic Church = Scum!

why blame the church , for the failure of the population of Ireland to make Kildare street address this issue over the last 20 years.

seb65 · 14-11-2012 08:41PM

Zulu wrote: »

Depends on how you look at it. If the child grows up to be a fully productive member of society, they'd cost the state less & contribute more in taxes.

Aside from their "potential" - cure cancer, solve the economic crisis, invent the replicator....

Actually, there are studies that show after abortion was legalized in New York City the rate of crime started dropping.

Here's another point, ever notice how all of the anti-choice/anti-woman ads always show a little white baby? Even in the US, where minorities are the ones having more abortions per capita.

saspeir · 14-11-2012 08:41PM

who the fug wrote: »

why blame the church , for the failure of the population of Ireland to make Kildare street address this issue over the last 20 years.

And why won't the Dáil address it? Because so many in this country hold true to the CC. Politicians are afraid of that vote. FG and FF depend on that vote you could say.

On the C4 news the husband says he was told by medics in UHG that they can't terminate "because this is a Catholic Country".

Again, CC = Scum! And those medics, if that report is true, need to be sacked and struck off.

Pregnant woman dies in UCHG after being refused a termination

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