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Pregnant woman dies in UCHG after being refused a termination

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Comments

  • #122
    flynnlives
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 739 ✭✭✭flynnlives


    tony81 wrote: »
    Disgraceful attitude.
    Perhaps she had pregnancy complications and septicemia, but do you know for certain that she was denied abortion and that's what caused her death?
    In Ireland no pregnant woman is denied medical treatment, even treatment that will end he life of the baby if it will save the mother.
    That's our law, and it's the reason Irish women have so few abortions yet one of the lowest mortality in child birth rates in the world.
    Stick to the facts and stop dragging up tragedies to push your own agenda.

    The article says the coroner returned a verdict that she died of septicemia and Ecoli.
    Its quite easy to get septicemia with a partial miscarriage.
    Also her cervix been open for 3 days would add to that.

    how about reading the facts before pushing your own agenda!


  • #123
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    otto_26 wrote: »
    Would you please please point us to the legislation in the statute books to back up your statement as I've already asked you?

    Hmm wonder why you haven't done this yourself maybe I asked you a unreasonable question maybe it's not written in the statute books that it is illegal for medical intervention to save the life of the mother so you can't show me....

    The whole point is it's not about whether it's in the statute book it's about would it be illegal for the doctor to perform a medical intervention to save the life of the mother and the answer is no it is not illegal, simple.



    WOW no there was absolutely no suggestion that because the poor woman who died was not Irish she did not get equal treatment:rolleyes::rolleyes:.. You have got that all wrong I was simply describing the facts about Irish women and termination in Ireland.

    And WOW you then also claim it's now my argument!! :rolleyes:

    I have pointed you to the legislation and queried your Irish woman Irish hospital post. If you meant all women living in Ireland I apologise.

    At the end of the day, the lack of legislation means doctors are following the letter of the law as my reference to the medical council guidelines pointed out along with the offences against the person act.

    I still haven't seen you provide anything to support your argument? Have you not found it yet? There is no law apart from the very vague guidelines the Medical Council provide.


  • #124
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,227 ✭✭✭Solair


    First of all, I'd just like to send my absolute support to her family and may she rest in peace.

    The whole incident is just mind-bogglingly ridiculous, shocking, frustrating and to be quite honest I don't even have words. It just makes me really angry!

    Why hasn't this legislation been passed? Why are women's lives being put at risk?

    According to the most recent opinion polling :
    A September 2012 Sunday Times/Behaviour and Attitudes poll of 923 people showed that 80% of voters would support a change to the law to allow abortion where the life of the woman was at risk, with 16% opposed and 4% undecided

    So, what exactly is the Government doing not dealing with this issue? It's not even controversial anymore! Wake up and DEAL WITH IT!

    Sadly, the Government's complete inaction, hand-wringing and complete lack of leadership has resulted in someone dying horribly.

    You should hang your collective brainwashed heads in shame!

    All this state does is preserve the status quo no matter how ridiculous that is.


  • #125
    tony81
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭tony81


    Cookie monster, this hippocratic oath? (Much better than those catholic and religious nutjobs)

    I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:

    Snip

    I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.


  • #126
    seb65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    tony81 wrote: »
    Disgraceful attitude.
    Perhaps she had pregnancy complications and septicemia, but do you know for certain that she was denied abortion and that's what caused her death?
    In Ireland no pregnant woman is denied medical treatment, even treatment that will end he life of the baby if it will save the mother.
    That's our law, and it's the reason Irish women have so few abortions yet one of the lowest mortality in child birth rates in the world.
    Stick to the facts and stop dragging up tragedies to push your own agenda.

    Irish women get abortions in England all the time.

    CLEARLY this pregnant woman was denied medical treatment. Even if she hadn't died they let her suffer for three days while she was miscarrying a baby she already adored. Absolutely disgusting. I'm not Irish, but I live here and I don't care if my husband and have to be separated for my whole pregnancy, I will go home to have my children. I would NEVER have a baby in this country. It's shown that it sees women as disposable, mere incubators.


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  • #127
    otto_26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Seaneh wrote: »
    She was denied on the grounds that the law in Ireland is extremely clear and if anyone in the hospital had have carried out an abortion, they could have ended up in jail.

    Don't blame the hospital, blame the law.

    She was denied on the grounds that the doctor did not do his job properly your claims are untrue it is not illegal for a doctor to perform a medical intervention to save the life of the mother in fact it is legal.


  • #128
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    seb65 wrote: »
    Irish women get abortions in England all the time.

    CLEARLY this pregnant woman was denied medical treatment. Even if she hadn't died they let her suffer for three days while she was miscarrying a baby she already adored. Absolutely disgusting. I'm not Irish, but I live here and I don't care if my husband and have to be separated for my whole pregnancy, I will go home to have my children. I would NEVER have a baby in this country. It's shown that it sees women as disposable, mere incubators.
    Eben tough Ireland is one of he safest countries in the world in which to give birth? The stats back that claim up too.


  • #129
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭seenitall


    otto_26 wrote: »
    She was denied on the grounds that the doctor did not do his job properly your claims are untrue it is not illegal for a doctor to perform a medical intervention to save the life of the mother in fact it is legal.

    No, it's not, and that's why this woman died.


  • #130
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    seb65 wrote: »
    CLEARLY this pregnant woman was denied medical treatment.

    You know absolutely nothing about the case beyond a few lines in a newspaper and the usual inflammatory dribble posted on after hours and yet you make positive exclamations like above?

    Bit ****ing silly, isn't it?


  • #131
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    otto_26 wrote: »
    She was denied on the grounds that the doctor did not do his job properly your claims are untrue it is not illegal for a doctor to perform a medical intervention to save the life of the mother in fact it is legal.

    Or possibly according to the Medical Council guidelines I've quoted "giving due consideration to the health of the baby"

    I do believe doctors here in this field are extremely cautious as a result of the ambiguous wording of the guidelines they have and the lack of clear law.


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  • #132
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    I think it's disgusting that people are laying politics, not those on the thread but the Clare Daly-ites elsewhere, with this womans death when we don't even know the full story yet.


  • #133
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    otto_26 wrote: »
    She was denied on the grounds that the doctor did not do his job properly your claims are untrue it is not illegal for a doctor to perform a medical intervention to save the life of the mother in fact it is legal.

    You know NOTHING of the case!
    How can you say anything with certainty right now?

    You are talking through your hoop.


  • #134
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    Surely this will be the final straw meaning the Government will have to act and finally put the issue to a referendum?


  • #135
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Seaneh wrote: »
    You know absolutely nothing about the case beyond a few lines in a newspaper and the usual inflammatory dribble posted on after hours and yet you make positive exclamations like above?

    Bit ****ing silly, isn't it?

    Am I missing something here? What conclusion did the article lead you to?

    Or do you mean to say she was denied the relevant medical treatment? :rolleyes:


  • #136
    GRMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭GRMA


    irishfeen wrote: »
    Surely this will be the final straw meaning the Government will have to act and finally put the issue to a referendum?
    lol... it has been already


  • #137
    seb65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    GRMA wrote: »
    Eben tough Ireland is one of he safest countries in the world in which to give birth? The stats back that claim up too.

    One of the safest....there are others. I wonder how much comfort knowing his wife was pregnant in one of the safest countries to give birth is to that poor, poor man.

    I'll go home where they believe women are precious too and where they are not so cold hearted that they'd let someone writher in pain and misery for days for no reason.


  • #138
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    seenitall wrote: »
    Am I missing something here? What conclusion did the article lead you to?

    Or do you mean to say she was denied the relevant medical treatment? :rolleyes:

    No, I mean to say that nobody outside the hospital has any idea what happened, why decisions were made, who made them or what actually caused her death.

    Everything in this thread is pure conjecture.


  • #139
    irishfeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,069 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    GRMA wrote: »
    lol... it has been already

    So a referendum isn't actually needed?:eek:


  • #140
    otto_26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    seenitall wrote: »
    No, it's not, and that's why this woman died.

    The woman died because the doctor did not do his job properly simple.

    It would not have been illegal for him to perform a medical intervention to save the life of the mother.. SO we are talking about a doctor not doing his job properly not about laws..


  • #141
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    seb65 wrote: »
    One of the safest....there are others. I wonder how much comfort knowing his wife was pregnant in one of the safest countries to give birth is to that poor, poor man.

    I'll go home where they believe women are precious too and where they are not so cold hearted that they'd let someone writher in pain and misery for days for no reason.

    Stay there while you're at it and don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.

    :rolleyes:


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  • #142
    seb65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    Seaneh wrote: »
    No, I mean to say that nobody outside the hospital has any idea what happened, why decisions were made, who made them or what actually caused her death.

    Everything in this thread is pure conjecture.

    So her husband lied?


  • #143
    seb65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 402 ✭✭seb65


    Seaneh wrote: »
    Stay there while you're at it and don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.

    :rolleyes:

    Gladly


  • #144
    Laneyh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Laneyh


    As the woman was a dentist she would have had a medical background herself.
    Coult they not have advised her fully on day one and off the record prompted her to go to Northern Ireland?

    The comment about the being a catholic country if it was said was unnecessary and somewhat antagonising.

    In any case the whole thing is a shambles and a tragic loss of life for stupid reasons.


  • #145
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    FFS.

    Ireland, it's time to put your big kid pants on and deal with this once and for all. No more cowardice or can kicking or winking at ferry terminals, we cannot pretend there are no consequences to the Irish Solution we've been trying to hide behind.


  • #146
    otto_26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Seaneh wrote: »
    You know NOTHING of the case!
    How can you say anything with certainty right now?

    You are talking through your hoop.

    I know its not illegal for a Doctor to perform a medical intervention to save the life of the mother... So I know we are not talking about laws that killed her....


  • #147
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭seenitall


    otto_26 wrote: »
    It would not have been illegal for him to perform a medical intervention to save the life of the mother...

    Again, just LOL. But have it your way, I always say denial is one of the most powerful things there is.


  • #148
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Solair wrote: »

    Why hasn't this legislation been passed? Why are women's lives being put at risk?

    Successive governments have been afraid of the impact on their rating by the more conservative elements of society.

    Popular polls might suggest it is no longer controversial, but an awful lot of the grey vote etc would be horrified.
    irishfeen wrote: »
    Surely this will be the final straw meaning the Government will have to act and finally put the issue to a referendum?

    We had the relevant referendum passed by a majority 20 years ago!
    irishfeen wrote: »
    So a referendum isn't actually needed?:eek:

    Nope 1992 we had that one! They did legislate for the right to travel and the right to information, but not for abortion in certain cirumstances in this country.

    Dunno if you are old enough to remember it, I was 19 at the time and it was one of the first referenda I voted in, it was an extraordinarily bitter campaign.


  • #149
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    GRMA wrote: »
    Eben tough Ireland is one of he safest countries in the world in which to give birth? The stats back that claim up too.

    That absolute lie that the ecclesiastical right spout has been blown out of the water with this case.

    Also even without this case it is grossly inaccurate. Ireland's overcrowded hospitals with some of the worst hygiene standards in western medicine is one of the worst places in the industrialised world to give birth. Despite excellent healthcare professionals, institutional failures have ensured Ireland is a bad place to have a child.

    So pull the other one, I don't think people on here are stupid enough to believe that lie.


  • #150
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    seb65 wrote: »
    So her husband lied?

    I didn't say that either, I am saying that the Hospital didn't just let a woman die, and everyone on here saying they did is just spreading nonsense, without knowing the actual details of the case, nobody can make any judgements on what happened.

    There are a million and one reasons why this could have went wrong and without knowing which reason that is you cannot assign blame to anyone.


    This is how witch hunts start and peoples reputations and lives are ruins because of baying mobs on uninformed idiots.


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  • #151
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Seaneh wrote: »
    Stay there while you're at it and don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.

    :rolleyes:

    This kind of response is shameful.

    "Well screw you with your sensible ideas and disgust at our crappy system! F*ck off and let us have a crappy system in peace!"

    Attitudes like yours are the reason the X Case hasn't been legislated for in twenty years. Perhaps you could get off your arse and actually try to make the country a bit better instead of moaning all the damn time?


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