Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

Eirebear · 10-07-2012 01:38AM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Thats not what i meant at all and well you know it. I havent encountered many rangers fans but i have formed an opinion of the club and its fans. Is my opinion not valid because ive spend time drinking in the Gallowgate as opposed to The Louden or other such dumps?

You can hold whatever opinion you wish, but if you're going to deem it worthy of a national newspaper - then i am of the opinion that it should be as fully based on experience as possible.

Keane couldn't bring one single first hand experience of the Rangers support into his piece - in fact the only mention of violence, in what is a very aggressive article in terms of it's language is that of Celtic "fans" smashing up bus shelters in Royston.

My argument in terms of Palestinians and Jews is very much down this line - of course you are only ever going to form a poor opinion of Jews if you spend all your time with palestinians, and vice versa.
For me, this doesn't equate to a well rounded opinion - and certainly not one worthy of national news.

It's ignorance in the truest sense of the word, an opinion formed without experience or knowledge at the most base of levels, and the article itself plays into the hands of not only the hardcore of Celtic fans who will lap this up, but also the hardcore of idiots who support Rangers and will see this as another reason to support the idea that Ireland, as a nation, is the enemy.

As i said before, inflammatory and ignorant.

And as someone who doesn't normally do this sort of thing, I have wrote to the Independant saying as much - it will be interesting if i hear back.

PauloMN · 10-07-2012 07:08AM

Gazza lol, would be great to see that!

10-07-2012 10:19AM

PauloMN wrote: »

What's your point caller?

I think it's funny that the very people who bleat on about Celtic needing Rangers, and Rangers needing Celtic, might be the fans of clubs that need both Celtic and Rangers more than anything themselves! :pac:

Which "wee" club do you support as a matter of interest?

I think he has a point

The conversation was drifting from a 'what will happen next to newco, old Rangers etc', to the same old 'All Rangers fans eat Catholic children, all Celtic fans are IRA members' tit for tat.

delos · 10-07-2012 10:43AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The company, not the club.

On Follow Follow there's a nice thread about other British clubs who also changed companies.

Leeds, Charlton, Middlesbrough, Port Vale,...

All of them had to change the company behind the club at one point in time, yet they're all still the same clubs as before.

But how many of them were liquidated rather than went into administration?

There is a precedent in Scottish football in the form of Airdire. The history of Airdrie did not pass onto Airdrie Untied, pure and simple. Now I'm sure Airdrie United fans consider the history of Airdrie to be for all intents and purposes their history and most people (myself included) on a day to day basis tend to think of them as the same club but none of this is technically correct.

You will have your memories, but the new club will have to create it's own history which I'm sure it will.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 10-07-2012 10:47AM

delos wrote: »

But how many of them were liquidated rather than went into administration?

There is a precedent in Scottish football in the form of Airdire. The history of Airdrie did not pass onto Airdrie Untied, pure and simple. Now I'm sure Airdrie United fans consider the history of Airdrie to be for all intents and purposes their history and most people (myself included) on a day to day basis tend to think of them as the same club but none of this is technically correct.

You will have your memories, but the new club will have to create it's own history which I'm sure it will.

The difference is Airdrie United bought over Clydebank so therefor became a continuation of them rather than the old Airdrie

Jelle1880 · 10-07-2012 11:03AM

delos wrote: »

But how many of them were liquidated rather than went into administration?

There is a precedent in Scottish football in the form of Airdire. The history of Airdrie did not pass onto Airdrie Untied, pure and simple. Now I'm sure Airdrie United fans consider the history of Airdrie to be for all intents and purposes their history and most people (myself included) on a day to day basis tend to think of them as the same club but none of this is technically correct.

You will have your memories, but the new club will have to create it's own history which I'm sure it will.

Airdrie is a completely different scenario, as has been pointed out, since they bought over another club, Clydebank.

It doesn't matter if those companies changed due to liquidation or not, they changed and that's the issue.

In the cases of Leeds, Plymouth Argyle, Charlton, Middlesbrough, Crystal Palace, Rotherham United,... the assets of the old company were transferred to a new company, yet I'm sure most people would agree that they are still the same clubs as before ?

In the cases of Palace and Plymouth the old companies are still in existence, but will be wound up/liquidated soon.

delos · 10-07-2012 11:18AM

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

The difference is Airdrie United bought over Clydebank so therefor became a continuation of them rather than the old Airdrie

Good point. I must be getting old to forget how outraged I was at the time

I'd be surprised if anyone would consider Clydebank's history and honours to belong to Airdre United though and most people would consider there to be a break between the one entity and the other.

I'm not trying to argumentative here (more just lazy), but do you know of any examples of a liquidated club's history being passed on? Gretna's honours didn't pass onto Gretna 2008.

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 10-07-2012 11:37AM

delos wrote: »

Good point. I must be getting old to forget how outraged I was at the time I'd be surprised if anyone would consider Clydebank's history and honours to belong to Airdre United though and most people would consider there to be a break between the one entity and the other.

I'm not trying to argumentative here (more just lazy), but do you know of any examples of a liquidated club's history being passed on? Gretna's honours didn't pass onto Gretna 2008.

No I don't but I haven't really looked into it as far as Airdrie United goes I found this

Airdrie United then went on to complete a buy-out of the ailing Second Division side Clydebank[7] and with SFL approval the club was relocated to Airdrie,[8] the strips were transformed to resemble that of Airdrieonians, and the name was changed to Airdrie United. While this means that the club is therefore officially a continuation of Clydebank it is almost universally accepted as a reincarnation of Airdrieonians, with Clydebank having been reformed by supporters groups and entering into the West Region Junior League.

super_furry · 10-07-2012 11:45AM

Gazza would be better off getting down to Ibrox with a fishing rod, a chicken sandwich and a tin of beer.

Dempsey · 10-07-2012 12:10PM

According to Rangers fans, the club is the club no matter what the company behind it does or becomes but you make the exception to what Airdrie did to get back into the league!

The only difference between what you and Airdrie is how you became an associate member of the SFL, they bought assets of another company which included their membership, similar to what Charles Green done except he tried to get Rangers SPL membership transferred but was voted down. Now he's looking for a new membership of the SFL because Rangers are dropping out completely and there is a vacant spot. You're now doing what Annan did when Gretna folded.

You'll all be awfully confused people if BDO null & voids the deal Charles Green did with D&P. Seems like ye are happy to follow whoever becomes tenants of Ibrox. Charles Green wants ye to buy season books, buy buy buy!

lubo_moravcik · 10-07-2012 12:33PM

Are Audi collecting their motors from Ibrokes?

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 10-07-2012 12:34PM

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

Are Audi collecting their motors from Ibrokes?

Yes as the sponsorship was cancelled about two weeks ago so the cars are being collected from Ibrox

Coillte_Bhoy · 10-07-2012 12:43PM

Eirebear wrote: »

You can hold whatever opinion you wish, but if you're going to deem it worthy of a national newspaper - then i am of the opinion that it should be as fully based on experience as possible.

Keane couldn't bring one single first hand experience of the Rangers support into his piece - in fact the only mention of violence, in what is a very aggressive article in terms of it's language is that of Celtic "fans" smashing up bus shelters in Royston.

My argument in terms of Palestinians and Jews is very much down this line - of course you are only ever going to form a poor opinion of Jews if you spend all your time with palestinians, and vice versa.
For me, this doesn't equate to a well rounded opinion - and certainly not one worthy of national news.

It's ignorance in the truest sense of the word, an opinion formed without experience or knowledge at the most base of levels, and the article itself plays into the hands of not only the hardcore of Celtic fans who will lap this up, but also the hardcore of idiots who support Rangers and will see this as another reason to support the idea that Ireland, as a nation, is the enemy.

As i said before, inflammatory and ignorant.

And as someone who doesn't normally do this sort of thing, I have wrote to the Independant saying as much - it will be interesting if i hear back.

So we cant comment on any political, social, cultural issue anywhere in the world unless we actually experience it first hand?

Anyway i think it's a poor article on a number of levels, but i dont necessarily disagree on his fundamental point but thats been done to death here so not interested in going through all that again. I'm still quite amazed that the Indo actually published the article and fair play you you for writing to them. Let us know if you get any response.

Jelle1880 · 10-07-2012 12:52PM

Dempsey wrote: »

According to Rangers fans, the club is the club no matter what the company behind it does or becomes but you make the exception to what Airdrie did to get back into the league!

The only difference between what you and Airdrie is how you became an associate member of the SFL, they bought assets of another company which included their membership, similar to what Charles Green done except he tried to get Rangers SPL membership transferred but was voted down. Now he's looking for a new membership of the SFL because Rangers are dropping out completely and there is a vacant spot. You're now doing what Annan did when Gretna folded.

You'll all be awfully confused people if BDO null & voids the deal Charles Green did with D&P. Seems like ye are happy to follow whoever becomes tenants of Ibrox. Charles Green wants ye to buy season books, buy buy buy!

Green only tried to re-apply for the SPL straight away, but the SFA membership is still that of Rangers FC.
There is no new SFA membership.

Dempsey · 10-07-2012 01:09PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Green only tried to re-apply for the SPL straight away, but the SFA membership is still that of Rangers FC.
There is no new SFA membership.

Let me rephrase for you

Charles Green tried to get Rangers SPL share transferred, that failed miserably. Now they are trying to get a spot in the SFL because Rangers FC is dropping out of the SPL, Dundee or Dunfermline will be getting their share and Sevco will be applying for the vacancy left by one of these clubs. You cannot have SFA membership until Rangers are no longer part of a league, Sevco cannot be a member of the SFA until you get into a league some how.

Its gas that you take exception to how the company behind Airdrieonions did this but then claim that it doesnt matter what Sevco does, it will be Rangers because it doesnt matter what the company behind the club does. Yer logic reeks of double standards

Dempsey · 10-07-2012 02:20PM

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/110253-fifa-sporting-merit-should-come-first-in-rangers-first-division-vote/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"Sporting merit" should come first when it comes to deciding which league Rangers play in next season, according to FIFA.

Fair bad when one corrupt organisation has to tell 2 other corrupt organisations that they are doing it wrong :pac:

Dempsey · 10-07-2012 03:03PM

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/clyde/110260-clyde-want-change-to-sfl-resolutions-on-rangers-first-division-vote/

Clyde want the Scottish Football League to change the wording of the first resolution at Friday's vote on allowing newco Rangers into the league.

STV understands the failure of the SFL to include “First" or "Third Division” in the resolution is central to Clyde's concerns, with directors fearing that even if they say no in the second vote, the league will bow to the wishes of the SPL and Scottish FA and include Rangers in the First Division regardless.

Clyde dont trust the SFA and SPL one bit, delighted!

Currently the vote count is at 14-3 for Rangers into Div3 and it seems that 2 of the clubs that want Sevco in D1 have shares in Rangers. The rules around owning shares in a rival club need to be overhauled. Conflicts of interests all over the place in Scottish Football.

Jelle1880 · 10-07-2012 09:34PM

Dempsey wrote: »

Let me rephrase for you

Charles Green tried to get Rangers SPL share transferred, that failed miserably. Now they are trying to get a spot in the SFL because Rangers FC is dropping out of the SPL, Dundee or Dunfermline will be getting their share and Sevco will be applying for the vacancy left by one of these clubs. You cannot have SFA membership until Rangers are no longer part of a league, Sevco cannot be a member of the SFA until you get into a league some how.

Its gas that you take exception to how the company behind Airdrieonions did this but then claim that it doesnt matter what Sevco does, it will be Rangers because it doesnt matter what the company behind the club does. Yer logic reeks of double standards

I only said it's a different scenario from Airdrieonians, which is fact.

Red Crow · 10-07-2012 09:36PM

Do the Rangers fans here support Charles Green?

10-07-2012 11:20PM

What do the Rangers supporters here think of the carry-on of Doncaster and Regan? Whose agenda are they promoting?

the realpigiron · 10-07-2012 11:21PM

Dempsey wrote: »

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/110253-fifa-sporting-merit-should-come-first-in-rangers-first-division-vote/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"Sporting merit" should come first when it comes to deciding which league Rangers play in next season, according to FIFA.

Fair bad when one corrupt organisation has to tell 2 other corrupt organisations that they are doing it wrong :pac:

It may come down to UEFA and FIFA at the end of the day to deliberate on this shambles, because the powers that be in Scottish football are woefully inept. It's no wonder Scottish football has generally gone to the dogs, clearly it's been run by a bunch of clowns for decades.

Scottish football and the teams and talent they produced on a regular basis used to be respected years back, what a mess they've made of it all.

Hopefully Celtic at least can forge ahead intact as a club that can punch it's weight in the CL over the next few difficult years. I hope Lenny has got a bit of experience under his belt from the EL campaign last year and puts it to good use.

10-07-2012 11:37PM

the realpigiron wrote: »

It may come down to UEFA and FIFA at the end of the day to deliberate on this shambles, because the powers that be in Scottish football are woefully inept.

Or we could just give the job to someone who has shown a bit of leadership. Clyde FC, perhaps?

Dempsey · 10-07-2012 11:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Or we could just give the job to someone who has shown a bit of leadership. Clyde FC, perhaps?

Turnbull Hutton would be another person that should be more involved than he currently is.

ferrigan101 · 11-07-2012 12:00AM

Not sure if this was posted yet.

The Hibs Club has watched events in Scottish football this summer with increasing concern:

For Hibs and their fans this summer should have been solely about a much needed rebuilding process.

Instead we have watched with increasing concern as the whole Scottish game has been tarnished by the financial collapse of Rangers.

As Hibs fans we know only too well how men concerned more with profiteering than the wishes of fans can risk the very existence of a football club.

So it is with increasing dismay that we have watched Scottish football tear itself apart in its attempts to protect a business model that operates more for the benefit of TV executives than ordinary supporters.

We believe that the new Rangers – if they can satisfy the usual standards demanded for SFA membership – should start out again in the Third Division.

We welcomed the “no” vote passed by the SPL, including our own club, but we have watched with dismay as the SPL clubs have stood silently on the sidelines as their own Chief Executive – with the help and approval of a now entirely discredited SFA – has tried to bully and threaten lower division clubs into submission.

Not only do we find the tactics used by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan abhorrent, we also take issue with the doomsday scenarios they have offered as evidence.

While TV money and corporate sponsorship are undoubtedly important we do not believe that all of them would vanish if the Rangers newco was not guaranteed a place in the SPL within 12 months.

We would also argue that additional benefits – including a return to more regular 3pm Saturday kick off times – would offset some of the lost revenue.

This, however, is an issue that should go beyond finances.

It is essential that Hibernian – like all clubs – are part of a fair and equitable league structure with governing bodies that are consistent and reasonable in their treatment of all clubs.

We do not believe that is currently the case and we would call on all SPL clubs – including our own – to urgently address the damage being done to the game by Neil Doncaster and Stewart Regan.

We have long felt that reconstruction of the league structure was a critical factor in strengthening the Scottish game.

The proposals that are currently being discussed destroy the prospect of a strong Scottish game and are aimed solely at rebuilding a strong Rangers.

These attempts at craven gerrymandering for the sake of one club are an affront to all the commitments to “sporting integrity” we have heard over the last few months.

Many Hibernian fans feel cheated. While the financial sacrifices made at Easter Road have not always found favour with many of our fans we do appreciate that these decisions have been made in the interests of long term stability.

We now find our voices ignored as rules are broken or rewritten to favour a club that has spent money it could not afford to buy success.

It is heartbreaking for us to hear members speak of not going back to Easter Road or of turning their back on the Scottish national team.

These are not hollow threats. They are a symptom of the disillusionment many fans feel at a game that seems to constantly betray its paying customers.

While we have sympathy for ordinary Rangers fans left bewildered by current events we have also been saddened over the last few months to hear Ally McCoist attempt to destroy a disciplinary process that had been created to help move the game forward.

Other comments from high profile Rangers figures such as Sandy Jardine have seemed to be nothing more than vindictive threats against other clubs. These have left us shocked and angered.

Now we find ourselves in the unacceptable position of watching Charles Green attempt to sign players while footballing debts to other clubs – debts that are as important as any projected TV or sponsorship income – remain unpaid.

Yet this apparent lack of contrition is being ignored as the Scottish football authorities unite to do what they feel is best for just one club.

We would hope that the European and global footballing authorities are watching these developments with interest and will move to censure the Scottish governing bodies.

Hibernian Football Club is our passion. We want to see a strong Hibs on the pitch and off the pitch. We want to see a sustainable Hibernian at the heart of our community.

22 years ago we united as fans to save Hibernian.

Today we find ourselves united in calling for Scottish football to end the current uncertainty, withdraw the the current campaign of bullying and threats aimed at our friends in the Scottish Football League and allow Rangers to rebuild their devastated club from the Third Division.

Fans of other clubs have been accused of “hating” Rangers.

We are defined not by hatred of any club but by our love of Hibernian.

A strong Hibernian in a strong Scottish game will forever be our one and only aim.

A few men motivated by greed and money currently risk that vision.

Fans of Hibernian and every other club cannot stand silently by and let that happen.

http://hibsclub.co.uk/2012/07/08/statement-on-rangers-scottish-football/

11-07-2012 12:03AM

Dempsey wrote: »

Turnbull Hutton would be another person that should be more involved than he currently is.

Quite a few of the "wee clubs" have shown a capacity for clear-headed thinking that for some strange reason seems to have eluded the leadership of the SPL, SFA and the SFL.

Oh, here's a cracking quote (sorry if posted already):

"Speaking for myself, and myself alone, it is clear to me that people at the highest levels of our game have tried to hold a gun to my head and the heads of my colleagues. That will never work. "But I have a long memory and will not forget what they tried to do and the way they tried to bend me, and this Club, to their will. That will never be allowed to happen”

That's from the chairman of Cowdenbeath FC, a bloke who goes by the name of Donald Findlay, QC. :eek:

Dempsey · 11-07-2012 12:13AM

Thats a well written statement from the Hibs supporters club and I think it will resonate will alot of fans of the Scottish Game. I think one this vote is dealt with by the SFL, there is going to be a massive backlash against the SFA and SPL by clubs, something that been long overdue.

Ya, seen that quote alright, made even more powerful by the fact that Findlay is saying it.

Eirebear · 11-07-2012 01:20AM

Got to be honest here - my worry is that the backlash against the SFA/SPL will be taken in a manner which completely kills any hope of Rangers seeing football this year.

I've said this from the very, very beginning - the authorities have handled this terribly, and many on here argued with me on that matter.

Dempsey · 11-07-2012 01:33AM

Eirebear wrote: »

Got to be honest here - my worry is that the backlash against the SFA/SPL will be taken in a manner which completely kills any hope of Rangers seeing football this year.

I've said this from the very, very beginning - the authorities have handled this terribly, and many on here argued with me on that matter.

There is a major stumbling block when Sevco try to transfer Rangers SFA membership if they get admitted to the SFL. Rangers still dont have audited accounts for 2011. The tax case is still weeks away without any explanation given to the public for the delay. Rangers cannot audit their accounts for 2011 until the BTC is resolved. Before you say that I'm confusing this with UEFA licensing, check SFA requirements on club licensing. To transfer Rangers SFA membership, the "Oldco" needs to have its books for the last 3 years audited, they dont.

Hard to see Sevco playing ball anywhere next season if the rules are followed to the letter of the law.

Jelle1880 · 11-07-2012 01:39AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What do the Rangers supporters here think of the carry-on of Doncaster and Regan? Whose agenda are they promoting?

PauloMN · 11-07-2012 09:32AM

Dempsey wrote: »

There is a major stumbling block when Sevco try to transfer Rangers SFA membership if they get admitted to the SFL. Rangers still dont have audited accounts for 2011. The tax case is still weeks away without any explanation given to the public for the delay. Rangers cannot audit their accounts for 2011 until the BTC is resolved. Before you say that I'm confusing this with UEFA licensing, check SFA requirements on club licensing. To transfer Rangers SFA membership, the "Oldco" needs to have its books for the last 3 years audited, they dont.

Hard to see Sevco playing ball anywhere next season if the rules are followed to the letter of the law.

Is the big tax case not a dead duck once Rangers FC are finally liquidated?

As for Sevco not playing any ball next season, Spiers has been saying that for months. A year out then placed in a new SPL2 might be what eventually happens. Would still allow them quicker entry to the SPL than going into Div 3 next season.

As for the authorities handling this badly, there's no doubt about it that they have done so. Absolutely no doubt. I do have a degree of sympathy for them though, for a number of reasons, in that a situation of this magnitude has never arisen before. Scottish football is pretty unique in its setup, and they are definitely struggling with how the demise of one huge team in that setup should be handled.

It's also clear that the rules are completely inadequate in this situation. Basically there are no rules it would seem - so they are trying to make stuff up as they go along essentially. I think it's easy to criticise them and point to the likes of Clyde's statement, and Turnbull Hutton etc. and say "look how clear cut it all is", but those guys would probably find things different on the SPL/SFL/SFA side of the fence if they had to deal with this situation from there.

Also while the effects on the Sky deal, sponsorship etc. is easily measured in millions of £, it's much harder to measure the losses in revenue that fan boycotts and fans simply falling away from their clubs would have on the game. For that reason, I suppose a disproportionate importance is placed on the Sky deal over the fans.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, not agreeing with the authorities in this by the way. I've said all along that Div 3 is the only suitable place for Sevco to enter the league as a new club - but I do understand the very difficult position the authorities find themselves in.

Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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