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Old Irish beliefs/superstitions about building on possibly haunted land
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29-06-2012 01:58AM#1
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Apologies if there is an already existing thread, I couldn't find one. I was at the 2010 World Ghost Convention and one of the speakers, possibly Paul O'Halloran I don't remember, mentioned there was an old Irish belief that if you were going to build your dwelling on a patch of land, before you laid any foundations, you had to put in a number of wooden poles/posts. When you returned the following day and any of the wooden posts were on the ground, the spirits didn't want you to build there.
I saw him speak at the Ghost Convention that year too. I thought his talk was the most interesting. The White Witch's talk, on the other hand, was the most hilarious.
Anyway, similar to what your mother said, he also mentioned then that cattle won't go near 'haunted land'.
I remember him mentioning a 'haunted' area of land in Ireland where a brutal battle from centuries before was still in full swing. Apparently the spirits of the people who were fighting hadn't 'moved on' because they didn't realise they were dead and, so, were stuck in this continuum, or 'loop', where they were still in the throes of battle..
But RE: the animals steering clear of certain land - I guess it's due to animals possible 'sensing' that something's 'wrong'. Doesn't matter if it's a dog, a cat or a cow - they all seem to react to these sorts of things similarly.
I'm sure most people have heard about the animals behaving strangely before the 2004 tsunami hit India and Sri Lanka.
Dogs refused to go outdoors, zoo animals retreated to their shelters and couldn't be cajoled into coming out, flamingos abandoned their low-lying breeding areas, and elephants screamed and ran for higher ground. Apparently this wasn't typical behaviour for them.
Maybe animals' perception isn't confined to the mundane plane/earthly reality? They might be more multidimensional, hence why they might stay away from 'haunted land' or land that will soon be subjected to treacherous conditions. It's interesting anyway.
I just remembered a guy named Eddie Lenihan who's supposed to be something of an expert on fairies and Irish traditional folklore and superstitions. He 'saved' a bush that belonged to the fairies a few years ago apparently - developers were going to tear the bush down and build on the land (which Eddie said would have been a fatal decision - the wrath of the fairies and all that).
There's an article about him here: http://www.irishexaminer.com/features/ghosts-piseogs-and-frightening-folktales-172070.htmlLenihan has a particular interest in fairies and the beliefs that older generations had about them, and in 1999 he led a successful campaign to prevent a sceach, or fairy bush, from being destroyed by roadworks in Co Clare. The storyteller has also had an enduring fascination with haunted places, fairy paths and holy wells and his stories for both adults and children are by turns comedic, haunting and grotesque.
Another article about Eddie and his thoughts on fairies and the like: http://www.irishcentral.com/story/travel/irelands-hidden-gems/the-truth-about-fairies-and-leprechauns-just-in-time-for-st-patricks-day-117148883.htmlBut fairies....they do exist, Oh yes and here in Ireland we do not mess with the fairies, ever! They are known to live in very special places called fairy rings, which are raised earthen circular mounds that you will see all over Ireland.
You are welcome to visit them, walk around them, make a wish by all means .... But it is thought to be very bad luck to interfere with these mounds. Driving motorways through them, Bad Very Bad....Certain trees are revered too, especially hawthorns which country people will never chop down or remove for fear of disturbing the fairies who often live underneath and who are likely to wreak havoc if disturbed? ie, sour milk, cause crops to fail, animals to sicken and die.....
Jaysus, the beard on Eddie!
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MrMojoRisin wrote: »I saw him speak at the Ghost Convention that year too. I thought his talk was the most interesting. The White Witch's talk, on the other hand, was the most hilarious. Anyway, similar to what your mother said, he also mentioned then that cattle won't go near 'haunted land'.
I remember him mentioning a 'haunted' area of land in Ireland where a brutal battle from centuries before was still in full swing. Apparently the spirits of the people who were fighting hadn't 'moved on' because they didn't realise they were dead and, so, were stuck in this continuum, or 'loop', where they were still in the throes of battle..
Yeah he was very interesting, I could have listened to his stories and experiences all night! I'm kicking myself for not recording his talk, I have a head like a sieve! I won't forget the White Witch and her spirits of misdirection in the Kerry mountains though! :rolleyes:
I'd know from walking my own pooches that they can be creeped out by things I'd be oblivious too, some of the things easily explained like a fox being nearby, others not so much! I'd be of the opinion that they'd know something was up, I've heard the stories about animals before the tsunami too, pandas screaming, goldfish jumping out of bowls, etc. Very interesting if there's a reason how they know, my pooches are afraid of their own shadows and then they growl at thin air!
My knowledge of faeries or the wee people would be very limited, I'll admit, but these will make for great reading! The lore is really interesting, I remember my nana getting very cross with my dad when he nearly cut down one of the hawthorn trees in her garden!
Holy mother, he once told a few stories to a group of children in my local library in 1996 and scared the bejesus out of me! Haha, it's such a small world, I'd forgotten all about him
That's a brilliant amount of information, thanks a million guys!
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Yeah he was very interesting, I could have listened to his stories and experiences all night!
I'm kicking myself for not recording his talk, I have a head like a sieve! I won't forget the White Witch and her spirits of misdirection in the Kerry mountains though! 
My sister actually recorded both his talk and the White Witch's talk (probably to laugh at later!). I got her to put them on a disc for me, so, as soon as I have them (she needed to post it), I'll see if I can upload them to a file hosting site and then put the link here. I wanted to hear more from O'Halloran too - he was full of interesting stories, from his time serving in the Lebanon, to working as a physio for the Irish rugby team, to his strange encounters as part of his healing/shaman work.
Oh yes, I remember the White Witch's story about herself and her fellow witches-in-training being in the Kerry mountains and encountering a 20-feet tall mist, I believe! Comedy gold. I think she said she told him/it off, and then she told the audience something like,"So he ran away. Well, no, he didn't run actually because he was a mist, you know. Mists can't run obviously." Cracked me up!
I can also recall something about her being bullied by a co-worker when she was a young trainee nurse, prompting her to write the co-worker's name on her own shoe as 'revenge'.
I think she suddenly launched into a brief story about her hamsters as well, explaining helpfully,"I love hamsters!" Genius.I'd know from walking my own pooches that they can be creeped out by things I'd be oblivious too, some of the things easily explained like a fox being nearby, others not so much! I'd be of the opinion that they'd know something was up, I've heard the stories about animals before the tsunami too, pandas screaming, goldfish jumping out of bowls, etc. Very interesting if there's a reason how they know, my pooches are afraid of their own shadows and then they growl at thin air!
I had a Jack Russell for a while (a friend 'loaned' him to me to look after while he went travelling for a bit) and I'd often see him suddenly express intense interest in something in one of the rooms of the house and prick his ears. I'd look to see what it was he was looking at, but it was just a blank wall a lot of the time. I really don't know. I suppose I have little understanding of their hearing range as well, so God knows what they're picking up from afar. As for what they see in contrast to the human eye, same story.My knowledge of faeries or the wee people would be very limited, I'll admit, but these will make for great reading! The lore is really interesting, I remember my nana getting very cross with my dad when he nearly cut down one of the hawthorn trees in her garden! I have to admit my knowledge of them is decidedly limited too, beyond the odd few bits and bobs I've read about them. If I remember rightly (and I could be wrong about this), placenames with 'Lis' or 'Rath' in their names are said to be hotbeds of fairy activity. Can anyone living in Lismore or Rathmines attest to this? 0 -
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Oh yeah do, I'd love to hear it again! O' Halloran was full of brilliant stories, I'd love to hear more of them, I hope he does the ghost convention again! I don't know if he does much public speakingMrMojoRisin wrote: »My sister actually recorded both his talk and the White Witch's talk (probably to laugh at later!). I got her to put them on a disc for me, so, as soon as I have them (she needed to post it), I'll see if I can upload them to a file hosting site and then put the link here. I wanted to hear more from O'Halloran too - he was full of interesting stories, from his time serving in the Lebanon, to working as a physio for the Irish rugby team, to his strange encounters as part of his healing/shaman work.
I remember that now as you said it, she's a bit of a balm pot! :P I remember her saying something about finding a penny from the year WWII ended, in 1945, as the world was so full of hope that year and using it as a lucky talisman. I would have thought that millions grieving their dead would have affected the pennies luckiness but there you are! :rolleyes: My parents once went to Cobh to get a reading from her, only to be told that she couldn't give any readings as her washing machine had broken and flooded her kitchen. My father quipped 'I thought you would have known that was going to happen.' She wasn't impressed!!MrMojoRisin wrote: »Oh yes, I remember the White Witch's story about herself and her fellow witches-in-training being in the Kerry mountains and encountering a 20-feet tall mist, I believe! Comedy gold. I think she said she told him/it off, and then she told the audience something like,"So he ran away. Well, no, he didn't run actually because he was a mist, you know. Mists can't run obviously." Cracked me up!
Weren't we supposed to be out of the recession in March as well? :P She's certainly quite the performance artist!MrMojoRisin wrote: »I can also recall something about her being bullied by a co-worker when she was a young trainee nurse, prompting her to write the co-worker's name on her own shoe as 'revenge'. I think she suddenly launched into a brief story about her hamsters as well, explaining helpfully,"I love hamsters!" Genius.
My dogs would be the same, they seem to have a superhuman sense of smell, they always know when the dinner is on, so I wouldn't at all be surprised that they can hear/see/sense much better than us mere humans can. My dogs would be used to country life and know lots of smells and scents, so I wonder sometimes are they just smelling something that they think is out of place, or something completely new to them. I often see them cock their head to one side and looking a bit baffled.. Or as baffled as cocker spaniels can!! :PMrMojoRisin wrote: »I had a Jack Russell for a while (a friend 'loaned' him to me to look after while he went travelling for a bit) and I'd often see him suddenly express intense interest in something in one of the rooms of the house and prick his ears. I'd look to see what it was he was looking at, but it was just a blank wall a lot of the time. I really don't know. I suppose I have little understanding of their hearing range as well, so God knows what they're picking up from afar. As for what they see in contrast to the human eye, same story.
Oh right cool, there's an old ringfort in my hometown, it's on some farmer's land and kind of hard to get to so I don't know of anyone who has been to it. There's two housing estates nearby called Liosbourne and Liosrua, so I'm assuming they got the name inspiration from the ringfortMrMojoRisin wrote: »I have to admit my knowledge of them is decidedly limited too, beyond the odd few bits and bobs I've read about them. If I remember rightly (and I could be wrong about this), placenames with 'Lis' or 'Rath' in their names are said to be hotbeds of fairy activity. Can anyone living in Lismore or Rathmines attest to this? My dad said Dun is another word for ringforts, backed up by thre posted Wikipedia link above, there's a housing estate called Dun Eoin as well, which was also built ~3 miles away from another ringfort. 0 -
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If you're interested in finding out more about the fairies and this type of occurence, I would definitely recommend Eddie Lenihan's book "Meeting the Other Crowd: The Fairy Stories of Hidden Ireland".
After reading and re-reading this, I spent a fantastic few days in Co Clare with my ordnance survey maps scouting out the places where the stories were linked to. It's a fantastic book and a great starting point if you have an interest in the subject of Irish fairies.
Oh brilliant, I'll definitely check that out, thanks! 0 -
Here is a link (at last) to shaman/healer Paul O'Halloran's (who we were talking about earlier in the thread) talk at the Ghost Convention in Cork back in 2010: http://www.peejeshare.com/files/363257679/Paul_o_Halloran_talk_at_WGC_2010.mp3.html
BTW, you have to click on the little white box saying 'Create download link' located below the text saying 'Paul_o_halloran_talk_at_WGC_2010'. Then you wait for that to load, and download it to listen to Paul's talk (it'll eventually say 'Click here to Download'). If anyone can be bothered.
I'll add the talk by the White Witch in a short while, should anyone be interested in that. It takes some time to upload the (mp3) files because of the length/size.
Talk by the White Witch (the same download process as detailed above is involved): http://www.peejeshare.com/files/363257709/White_Witch_talk_at_WGC_2010.mp3.html
Enjoy.0 -
MrMojoRisin wrote: »Here is a link (at last) to shaman/healer Paul O'Halloran's (who we were talking about earlier in the thread) talk at the Ghost Convention in Cork back in 2010: http://www.peejeshare.com/files/363257679/Paul_o_Halloran_talk_at_WGC_2010.mp3.html
BTW, you have to click on the little white box saying 'Create download link' located below the text saying 'Paul_o_halloran_talk_at_WGC_2010'. Then you wait for that to load, and download it to listen to Paul's talk (it'll eventually say 'Click here to Download'). If anyone can be bothered.
I'll add the talk by the White Witch in a short while, should anyone be interested in that. It takes some time to upload the (mp3) files because of the length/size.
Talk by the White Witch (the same download process as detailed above is involved): http://www.peejeshare.com/files/363257709/White_Witch_talk_at_WGC_2010.mp3.html
Enjoy.
This is great, thanks so much for uploading and sharing!! 0 -
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MrMojoRisin wrote: »Tbh, I would draw a distinction between ley lines and haunted land. I always thought that ley lines tended to augment and cause different points of energy to intermingle on a particular site, leading to disrupted sleep in instances where people's houses are supposedly built on the lines. On the other hand, I think land can possibly be haunted without ley lines being present.
I've heard that Stonehenge in the UK and the Great Pyramid in Egypt were built on ley lines, and they do tend to have a reputation as 'spiritual' places as opposed to 'haunted' places.
Apparently lines connecting one burial site to another physically sparked the idea of ley lines that was written about by Watkins back in 1921. It was noted (and possibly not by him) that people reported seeing ghosts walking (or floating, as the case may be) along these same paths, or ley lines. That would suggest that there's a link between the dead and the lines, but it's all a bit arbitrary really. Hard to be sure..
Yeah I'd be in agreement there. My granda's family and my mum do a bit of dowsing and they have their doubts about the existence of ley lines. I've read a bit about them but I've never read two 'experts' having the same opinion on where the lines are!
I'd love to see a map of the world, particularly Ireland, to see where they believe the lines to be. This thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055066020 didn't come up with much concerning ley lines. Until I can see a few maps that agree with each other, I'll stay a bit skeptical about them. 0 -
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Oh yeah do, I'd love to hear it again! O' Halloran was full of brilliant stories, I'd love to hear more of them, I hope he does the ghost convention again! I don't know if he does much public speaking
Just to reply to your post from before, Aoife. AFAIK, the only public speaking Paul O'Halloran seems to do is when he rarely speaks on the radio (he was on with Neil Prendeville on 96fm a few times), or when he conducts workshops (if you'd call that public speaking). He can certainly articulate himself well anyway. Good storyteller.I remember that now as you said it, she's a bit of a balm pot! :P I remember her saying something about finding a penny from the year WWII ended, in 1945, as the world was so full of hope that year and using it as a lucky talisman. I would have thought that millions grieving their dead would have affected the pennies luckiness but there you are! :rolleyes:
Yeah, I remember her mentioning that in her speech before (and, again in the audio clip in the link I posted above - for those who haven't heard it), and I thought the exact same thing at the time. I can't, for the life of me, understand why a penny from that year, of all years, would be imbibed with so much hope and luck. It's a pity she didn't bother to explain why she thought that.
I think she has a tendency to state something as a fact and, because she is probably so clued-up herself on why it apparently is a fact, or whatever, she overlooks that others are probably completely clueless about it.
Someone forwarded a link to me earlier of the following video of her speaking about witchcraft in 2010:My parents once went to Cobh to get a reading from her, only to be told that she couldn't give any readings as her washing machine had broken and flooded her kitchen. My father quipped 'I thought you would have known that was going to happen.' She wasn't impressed!!
That is a classic. All the scrying using her crystal ball didn't reveal an image of a banjaxed washing machine and a flooded kitchen, ha, ha.Weren't we supposed to be out of the recession in March as well? :P She's certainly quite the performance artist!
That's right - I forgot about that. :rolleyes: Realistically, I don't think we'll be out of the recession for at least another 15 years. Unless a miracle happens..
She did predict oil being found off the coast of Cork (can't recall the date, if any, that she gave), and there was a fair bit of oil found there back in March or early April, if I remember rightly. White Witch - une point.My dogs would be the same, they seem to have a superhuman sense of smell, they always know when the dinner is on, so I wouldn't at all be surprised that they can hear/see/sense much better than us mere humans can. My dogs would be used to country life and know lots of smells and scents, so I wonder sometimes are they just smelling something that they think is out of place, or something completely new to them. I often see them cock their head to one side and looking a bit baffled.. Or as baffled as cocker spaniels can!! :P
I would imagine that their sense of smell is more developed and wide-ranging than that of humans, which might explain why they react so starkly to things that we are unable to detect as acutely as they can.Oh right cool, there's an old ringfort in my hometown, it's on some farmer's land and kind of hard to get to so I don't know of anyone who has been to it. There's two housing estates nearby called Liosbourne and Liosrua, so I'm assuming they got the name inspiration from the ringfort My dad said Dun is another word for ringforts, backed up by thre posted Wikipedia link above, there's a housing estate called Dun Eoin as well, which was also built ~3 miles away from another ringfort.
Tradition holds that placenames like that are associated with ringforts. 'Lios' has been anglicised in many areas' names in more recent times - such as Lisdoonvarna or Lismore. Same thing with rath (with a fada over the a) - now Rathmines, Rathdrum, etc., minus the fada. Apparently 'lios' was the enclosed living area of the fairies. Both names - Lios and Rath - would describe forts with predominantly earth banks forming the enclosure.
As for 'Dun' - traditionally, any place beginning with that name referred to a stone-built, defensive structure of some kind. So again, linking in with forts.
You were sort of wondering initially whether or not land that had fairies inhabiting it could have cattle grazing on it. Well, apparently, according to some, fairy forts and ringforts are considered to be interchangeable names for the same thing, and, interestingly, ringforts were built, and lived in, by cattle farmers during the Middle Ages.
Also, it's been found that ringforts were never constructed anywhere where the land was considered unsuitable for farming to start with. So, there may be a connection there somewhere.0 -
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Sorry to disappoint you, but as I say, those are the facts.Northclare wrote: »Oh no they're notwhateva.
Some top-notch debating there lads!
QI did a little segment on ley lines, and illustrated quite nicely how you can make patterns out of anything if you're selective enough about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdGyLs5JS1g&feature=player_detailpage#t=352s0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz8kCDd57f0
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