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Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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Comments

  • #3932
    ColeTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Eirebear wrote: »
    You're an intelligent guy - read the article and tell me he isnt playing to the lowest common denominator here.

    He cites a murder from 14 years ago, in a city which has one of the hisghtest per capita murder rates in the Europe.
    I've spoke about my feelings on that horrible crime on this forum in the past - I find it sickening just how often it has become some sort of fall back from elements of the Celtic support in order to simply get one up on the Rangers support.

    It's utterly appaling that a national newspaper would give this kind of action back page space imo.

    He speaks of how he drank in the huddle club, and was welcomed by the good "irish" folk of the Garngad on Old Firm day.
    Well now - does he expect to hear nice stories about Rangers in The Huddle Club on Old Firm day?
    He'll have heard a lot of Republican, anti-british songs though - these are perfectly acceptable in Britain you see.

    Once again we have a case of an Irishman, donning his Celtic top and heading to Glasgow - whilst there he hangs around in Celtic supporters bars, with celtic supporters, talking about Celtic.
    Can you see where this is going?

    If "Billy Keane" would like to come and meet some Rangers supporters, i'll gladly take him out in Glasgow. I think it would be a valuable experience.
    Because it won't be untill he meets at least one bear, that he will be able to write a balanced article instead of his hate filled drivel.

    Of course he's hammering home his viewpoint. I wouldn't have any dealings with Rangers fans but I wouldn't be naive enough to label everyone one of them as bigots. Likewise not every Celtic fan is a saint.

    But just because Billy Keane has dramatised a few points doesn't make his article completely untrue. I said it in my first post about the article, that you're never going to agree with it because it is his opinion. Should he be allowed to come out and say it? That's a different debate completely.

    For what it's worth, Ian O'Doherty and one of the Fannings write for the Independent and have written plenty of negative articles in the past about Celtic.


  • #3933
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    the realpigiron wrote: »
    Some home truths there in that Indo article about the club formerly known as Glasgow Rangers. The death of that club gives an opportunity for the emergence of a new club free from the unsavoury baggage of the past. People like yourself who want to support the new club, should relish the opportunity to throw your support behind the new club with no baggage attached I reckon.

    You really think people like "Billy Keane" will let us forget where this "new club" came from?
    I highly doubt it.


  • #3934
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    TheBuilder wrote: »
    Well we are still the same fans, same stadium, same crest, same strip.

    Even the same focus of obsession for a certain section of the Celtic support.

    If Sevco are Rangers then who are Rangers (being run by D&P)?


  • #3935
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    ColeTrain wrote: »
    Of course he's hammering home his viewpoint. I wouldn't have any dealings with Rangers fans but I wouldn't be naive enough to label everyone one of them as bigots. Likewise not every Celtic fan is a saint.

    But just because Billy Keane has dramatised a few points doesn't make his article completely untrue. I said it in my first post about the article, that you're never going to agree with it because it is his opinion. Should he be allowed to come out and say it? That's a different debate completely.

    For what it's worth, Ian O'Doherty and one of the Fannings write for the Independent and have written plenty of negative articles in the past about Celtic.

    No - that's entirely the debate.
    Should that kind of opinionated, inflamatory and ignorant type of article be given the backpage (It looks that way anyway from the photo) of a national newspaper.

    If that was written as part of a blog, it would be shrugged off as a rant - by putting it on the backpage of a newspaper it gives it some sort of creedance - it doesn't change the fact it is ignorant.


  • #3936
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    Eirebear wrote: »
    You really think people like "Billy Keane" will let us forget where this "new club" came from?
    I highly doubt it.

    what do you mean by this?

    The article does have a point about the blind hatred "the billy boys" represents which the world would be better without but I would agree that the tone of the article was the sort of typical sensationalism article we're used to reading about the old firm.


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  • #3937
    the realpigiron
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭the realpigiron


    Eirebear wrote: »
    You really think people like "Billy Keane" will let us forget where this "new club" came from?
    I highly doubt it.

    It's up to the new club owners and supporters to take the opportunity to create a new club, and ensure that ye dump all the unsavoury elements of the baggage associated with the now defunct Rangers from the past. This situation represents a real opportunity to do just that, I hope and suggest that potential supporters of the new Sevco club do that.


  • #3938
    ColeTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Eirebear wrote: »
    No - that's entirely the debate.
    Should that kind of opinionated, inflamatory and ignorant type of article be given the backpage (It looks that way anyway from the photo) of a national newspaper.

    If that was written as part of a blog, it would be shrugged off as a rant - by putting it on the backpage of a newspaper it gives it some sort of creedance - it doesn't change the fact it is ignorant.

    Look up Kevin Myers who writes for the Indo. He ticks all of the above boxes. Columnists are hardly a new thing, if you ban them you ban freedom of speech. That should exist whether having a pint down the local or writing for a national paper.


  • #3939
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    ColeTrain wrote: »
    Look up Kevin Myers who writes for the Indo. He ticks all of the above boxes. Columnists are hardly a new thing, if you ban them you ban freedom of speech. That should exist whether having a pint down the local or writing for a national paper.

    The back pages in newspapers aren't normally the place where you will find an opinion piece. That is where we should be reading news.
    Many of this man's articles are filed under "opinion" on the Independant website.
    This one? Filed under "Sport".

    You beginning to understand why i'm riled?

    Again, i agree it's opinion and he is entitled to it - it doesnt change the fact that it is ignorant - and i reserve every right to disagree with it.
    Just because he holds this opinion doesn't make it untouchable.


  • #3940
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    what do you mean by this?

    .

    Sorry, that was my own ignorance - i'd read elsewhere that it wasn't his true name - a quick search of the website shows me many articles that appear under that name.
    the realpigiron wrote: »
    It's up to the new club owners and supporters to take the opportunity to create a new club, and ensure that ye dump all the unsavoury elements of the baggage associated with the now defunct Rangers from the past. This situation represents a real opportunity to do just that, I hope and suggest that potential supporters of the new Sevco club do that.

    And how do you suggest we do this?
    By bowing down to any and every piece of abuse the likes of the Independant decide to print?

    Do you really, really think that Glasgow's issues with religious and cultural divides will simply disappear with the "OldCo?
    I wouldn't be quite so naive.


  • #3941
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    Eirebear wrote: »
    The back pages in newspapers aren't normally the place where you will find an opinion piece. That is where we should be reading news.
    Many of this man's articles are filed under "opinion" on the Independant website.
    This one? Filed under "Sport".

    You beginning to understand why i'm riled?

    Again, i agree it's opinion and he is entitled to it - it doesnt change the fact that it is ignorant - and i reserve every right to disagree with it.
    Just because he holds this opinion doesn't make it untouchable.

    Its on the same part of the back page of the sport section that hosts an opinion piece every week.

    edit: which part do you disagree with, or do you disagree with people having strong opinions on Rangers sectarian issues?


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  • #3942
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    Its on the same part of the back page of the sport section that hosts an opinion piece every week.

    Fair enough, that makes a little more sense.
    Doesn't change my opinion on the piece itself though. Or the fact it's not listed as "opinion".

    Edit - I disagree with is opinion in general - as i've stated before it stinks of someone who has never in his life met a Rangers supporter - much less understood their viewpoint.
    He has formed an opinion based on his experience with Celtic fans, to write an article about Rangers.
    That's why i feel the piece as a whole is flawed, and ignorant.


  • #3943
    ColeTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Eirebear wrote: »
    Fair enough, that makes a little more sense.
    Doesn't change my opinion on the piece itself though. Or the fact it's not listed as "opinion".

    I'm sure most will know by the tone of the article that he is giving his personal opinion.

    I find it hard to get worked up about any article in a paper now. I've read so much sh*te online it would be strange not to disagree with something.


  • #3944
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    ColeTrain wrote: »
    I'm sure most will know by the tone of the article that he is giving his personal opinion.

    I find it hard to get worked up about any article in a paper now. I've read so much sh*te online it would be strange not to disagree with something.

    Most will - but we're back to the "Lowest common denominator" again - and that's where it gets dangerous and inflammatory.

    I agree with you to an extent - but i have a huge interest both proffesionally and personally in how the media in general works, i get worked up about poor journalism and opinion being passed off as journalism as a whole.


  • #3945
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    Eirebear wrote: »
    Fair enough, that makes a little more sense.
    Doesn't change my opinion on the piece itself though. Or the fact it's not listed as "opinion".

    the vast majority of people who read that paper would be aware that is the regular opinion slot.

    Should these type of articles be marked as opinions? its not something i have noticed in any paper tbh.

    Anyways the Irish Independant is perfectly capable of putting the boot into Celtic too, a few of their contributors regularly take demeaning, off topic and out of context swipes at Celtic out of the blue.


  • #3946
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    bobmalooka wrote: »
    the vast majority of people who read that paper would be aware that is the regular opinion slot.

    Should these type of articles be marked as opinions? its not something i have noticed in any paper tbh.

    Anyways the Irish Independant is perfectly capable of putting the boot into Celtic too, a few of their contributors regularly take demeaning, off topic and out of context swipes at Celtic out of the blue.

    Do a search for him on the website - many of his articles are listed as opinion.
    This one isnt.
    Most newspapers mark columnists articles as "Opinion" or "Editorial" it's part of a code of practice, similar to advertising pieces being marked as such.

    I agree, they are able to put the boot into Celtic, doesnt make it ok - i've seen you guys complain about it often enough.


  • #3947
    ColeTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Eirebear wrote: »
    Most will - but we're back to the "Lowest common denominator" again - and that's where it gets dangerous and inflammatory.

    I agree with you to an extent - but i have a huge interest both proffesionally and personally in how the media in general works, i get worked up about poor journalism and opinion being passed off as journalism as a whole.

    Their influence is definitely waning thanks to forums and blogs. At least online a poor opinion can be challenged.


  • #3948
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    ColeTrain wrote: »
    Their influence is definitely waning thanks to forums and blogs. At least online a poor opinion can be challenged.

    Maybe so - but there is still a large proportion of the population who don't use forums or read blogs.
    Couple that with the fact he is payed for his opinion and it sways a lot of people.

    And the fact that you can't challenge his opinion directly is a huge thing.


  • #3949
    the realpigiron
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭the realpigiron


    Eirebear wrote: »
    Maybe so - but there is still a large proportion of the population who don't use forums or read blogs.
    Couple that with the fact he is payed for his opinion and it sways a lot of people.

    And the fact that you can't challenge his opinion directly is a huge thing.

    There is nothing wrong with what was said in that article, you can disagree all you like with what was said, but that doesn't make what was said in the article wrong at all in my view.


  • #3950
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    the realpigiron wrote: »
    There is nothing wrong with what was said in that article, you can disagree all you like with what was said, but that doesn't make what was said in the article wrong at all in my view.
    true but I would agree with EB that its purpose was to put the boot in rather than offer any insight as to whats going on at Rangers at the moment.

    Hopefully the bigotry will die with the club, maybe genuine Rangers fans will follow Sevco ant the ones who were only interested in airing their hatred will get bored of Sevco if we wont be playing Celtic. If thats the point the article was trying to make it was done poorly.


  • #3951
    TheBuilder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭TheBuilder


    That article paints me, my family and a huge proportion of rangers fans as bigots who support the murder of Catholics through our football team when it is completely not true.

    I've never denied there is an element, there always will be on both sides, but no matter what has been done to clean up our image, it is never recognised, these opinionated 'Celtic fans' choose to go into the past all the time to have their digs.

    The amount of people in Ireland who give their views on Rangers (and Celtic) having never stepped foot near a game, bothered to get to know fans of the team and just jump on the assumption that we're all bigots is a ****ing disgrace.

    I wonder if I wrote an opinion piece on how since growing up in Donegal since the age of four has saw me attacked as a 'dirty orange bastard' (I'm a catholic, and have never seen these idiots at the mass I attend every Sunday), had the good old 'go home ya hun' sang at me, referred to as 'the unionist' during Irish history lessons in school, warned to not wear my rangers top around my home town and other attacks based on who I support, for the Independent would they make it back page news on what 'all Celtic fans' are like.

    They wouldn't, because the difference is I can separate the true fans, those who I have played football with and watches games with in pubs from the morons who attach themselves as 'fans'.


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  • #3952
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,226 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    the realpigiron wrote: »
    There is nothing wrong with what was said in that article, you can disagree all you like with what was said, but that doesn't make what was said in the article wrong at all in my view.

    Not surprising that you're agreeing with it, but there's basic facts in there which are wrong.

    Or are you that unaware of your own club's history that you don't know they never won a title in 2000 ?

    And if he can't even get that right...


  • #3953
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    TheBuilder wrote: »
    That article paints me, my family and a huge proportion of rangers fans as bigots who support the murder of Catholics through our football team when it is completely not true.

    I've never denied there is an element, there always will be on both sides, but no matter what has been done to clean up our image, it is never recognised, these opinionated 'Celtic fans' choose to go into the past all the time to have their digs.

    The amount of people in Ireland who give their views on Rangers (and Celtic) having never stepped foot near a game, bothered to get to know fans of the team and just jump on the assumption that we're all bigots is a ****ing disgrace.

    I wonder if I wrote an opinion piece on how since growing up in Donegal since the age of four has saw me attacked as a 'dirty orange bastard' (I'm a catholic, and have never seen these idiots at the mass I attend every Sunday), had the good old 'go home ya hun' sang at me, referred to as 'the unionist' during Irish history lessons in school, warned to not wear my rangers top around my home town and other attacks based on who I support, for the Independent would they make it back page news on what 'all Celtic fans' are like.

    They wouldn't, because the difference is I can separate the true fans, those who I have played football with and watches games with in pubs from the morons who attach themselves as 'fans'.

    I agree with most of what you say TB, and I have to say I respect you for being a genuine fan in what must be difficult circumstances at times given where you live and your background etc..

    I read the linked article and it's pretty poor tbh. The sensationalism and inaccuracies kill off any substance that it may have, and I do agree bringing up the Mark Scott thing is a bit of a cheap shot.

    I do think a fresh start will be a good thing though for genuine Rangers fans, because while both sets of supporters have their fcuking eejits, I don't think Rangers as a club have done enough to separate themselves from them.


  • #3954
    the realpigiron
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭the realpigiron


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Not surprising that you're agreeing with it, but there's basic facts in there which are wrong.

    Or are you that unaware of your own club's history that you don't know they never won a title in 2000 ?

    And if he can't even get that right...

    It's not surprising that you're disagreeing with it. There might be some minor factual discrepancies, I haven't studied the article to the degree you obviously have. I don't have a problem with the article - he does raise the issue of certain Celtic fans not being saints as well btw - clearly you have a problem with the general thrust of the peice.


  • #3955
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,226 ✭✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Yeah, because saying that Rangers fans celebrate the murder of a Celtic fan is the same as saying that some Celtic fans are naughty.


  • #3956
    the realpigiron
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭the realpigiron


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Yeah, because saying that Rangers fans celebrate the murder of a Celtic fan is the same as saying that some Celtic fans are naughty.

    There's clearly no point in debating with you, you are picking out small parts of the article and paraphrasing your own spin on other parts of it. You don't like the article, so you will seek to discredit it, there are some facts about the old club when they are raised that you will argue about and won't ever accept.

    I just hope that the new Sevco club and their supporters will dispense with the bad elements of the baggage from the old club.


  • #3957
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    This article was in the Indo, right? If so why are people getting worked up about it. That paper went to the dogs a few years back and isn't a credible source of journalism any more (Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes have been a major story in it nearly every day for the past week for God's sake!).

    Regarding the songs, I presume it isn't just Rangers fans who sing songs that most people would find offensive, even if they don't go as far as being up to the neck in someone's blood?


  • #3958
    A_Sober_Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    jack presley wrote: »
    This article was in the Indo, right? If so why are people getting worked up about it. That paper went to the dogs a few years back and isn't a credible source of journalism any more (Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes have been a major story in it nearly every day for the past week for Hubbards's sake!).

    Regarding the songs, I presume it isn't just Rangers fans who sing songs that most people would find offensive, even if they don't go as far as being up to the neck in someone's blood?

    FYP:D


  • #3959
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    TheBuilder wrote: »
    They were mate, we have the same crest.

    Our away and third kits are out over the next 6 weeks, both have the same crest.

    Same as Doncaster said our history is still intact, but that's forbidden to say on here.

    Its true because Neil Doncaster said it? Wow!

    Sevco bought assets and intellectual property off Rangers (in administration), you are not the same club. You cannot actually call yourselves Rangers or anything like it whilst Rangers (in administration) still exists. The house of companies will reject any name change because Rangers still exists. Sevco isnt part of any league, it doesnt have SFA membership and your owner currently hasnt passed a fit and proper person test. You can convince yourself otherwise if it helps you sleep at night


  • #3960
    cruiserweight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭cruiserweight


    STV have a list of clubs intentions for the vote on Friday, they are going to update it during the week. I wonder how many if any of the stated positions will change during the week

    http://sport.stv.tv/football/108222-rangers-newco-vote-sfl-clubs-outline-their-positions-on-the-issue/


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  • #3961
    cruiserweight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭cruiserweight


    Rangers have refused international clearance for the transfers of Davis, Lafferty, Ness, Whittaker and Naismith.


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