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Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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Comments

  • #3482
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Kirby wrote: »
    To be frank it's basically the same club. This isn't an AFC Wimbledon job. They will play in the same stadium, populated by the same fans, wearing the same kit with mostly the same players. Some will leave on free transfers as is their right....but many will stay. While legally and technically it's a new club, the fans of Rangers and other clubs will still consider it the same and will view past glories and histories as part of the club. We will still see the same vitriolic rivalry between the fans on derby day and the same buildup when they play Celtic..

    do you genuinely believe that players will stick around to play in the third division? Because they won't

    If rangers hold on to more than a handful of their squadl it'll be a miracle


  • #3483
    fionnsda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 189 ✭✭fionnsda


    The Laughing Tim



  • #3484
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Assuming Sevco are refused entry to the SPL which now looks certain, what's the next move if they want to try to gain entry into Div 1? Is each division going to have to hold a vote of all clubs on the matter?

    I'm beginning to think there'll be no football at all in Ibrox next season. Even if they were to apply now for Div 3 membership and SFA membership, will it all be done and dusted by the time the new season starts?


  • #3485
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Helix wrote: »
    do you genuinely believe that players will stick around to play in the third division? Because they won't

    If rangers hold on to more than a handful of their squadl it'll be a miracle

    The picture will be very clear on Thursday as Sevco are to pay people for the 1st time.

    I think by tomorrow night we will have over 8 SFL clubs stating their position on the matter and that Div3 is Sevco's only course. You'll see alot of players make up their minds very quickly then!
    PauloMN wrote: »
    Assuming Sevco are refused entry to the SPL which now looks certain, what's the next move if they want to try to gain entry into Div 1? Is each division going to have to hold a vote of all clubs on the matter?

    I'm beginning to think there'll be no football at all in Ibrox next season. Even if they were to apply now for Div 3 membership and SFA membership, will it all be done and dusted by the time the new season starts?

    Sevco will need to make an application the SFL and they need 22 clubs out of 29, to gain entry. The vote takes place 5 days after the application is received. If they indicate that they want to be placed into Div1, their application will fail imo

    EDIT

    Jamie Ness has refused to join Sevco and STV reports that 2 more are to be announced.


  • #3486
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    the new club will hardly be happy to pay SPL wages in div 3 either, particularly with no european football and no tv month of any real note


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  • #3487
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Lee Wallace & Lee McCulloch are the only 2 players to say that they will turn up for preseason training. I bet that Wallace will be sold before the window closes and McCulloch will be asked to take a pay cut.


  • #3488
    Beefy78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    If I set up a business as a sole trader and run it for a five years, doing well, winning local business of the year or some other local business award and later decide to run it as a Limited Company then technically it's a new business. But it's still the same business, in the same shop providing the same goods to the same customers. The business hasn't changed, I'm still entitled to keep my local business award, it's just a diffierent sheet of paper which I need to lodge at Companies House.

    We all support football clubs. Not Limited Companies. Manchester United Ltd were only formed in 1990 but the club which Beckham, Cantona, Giggs and the rest played for is the same club that Robson, Best and Charlton played for.

    Regardless of which division Rangers are in next season, they're still the same club. It seems from reading the last few pages that Celtic fans know this deep down or else they wouldn't be so keen to rub Rangers fans's noses in it. The first time 'new' Rangers play Celtic, Celtic fans will no doubt be just as determined to get one voer Rangers as they ever were. That surely wouldn't be the case if it was a new club.

    I don't support either side (although I do have a Celtic jersey at home somewhere!), as an outsider I just think the whole thing is a shambles. Football starts in a few weeks and no one even knows where Rangers will be playing or who they will have available to play.


  • #3489
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    If I set up a business as a sole trader and run it for a five years, doing well, winning local business of the year or some other local business award and later decide to run it as a Limited Company then technically it's a new business. But it's still the same business, in the same shop providing the same goods to the same customers. The business hasn't changed, I'm still entitled to keep my local business award, it's just a diffierent sheet of paper which I need to lodge at Companies House.

    Not the same as the Rangers issue. You would not have liquidated a corporate entity which was encompassing a club.

    What you are talking about is what every football club has done in the past - started as a club and then registered as a limited company. It's the same entity just changing form, not an entity being liquidated and asset stripped.


  • #3490
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    We'll be rubbing their noses in it because we'll know that its Rangers fans that are supporting another club pretending that nothing has changed!


  • #3491
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Beefy78 wrote: »
    If I set up a business as a sole trader and run it for a five years, doing well, winning local business of the year or some other local business award and later decide to run it as a Limited Company then technically it's a new business. But it's still the same business, in the same shop providing the same goods to the same customers. The business hasn't changed, I'm still entitled to keep my local business award, it's just a diffierent sheet of paper which I need to lodge at Companies House.

    Not the same as the Rangers issue. You would not have liquidated a corporate entity which was encompassing a club.

    What you are talking about is what every football club has done in the past - started as a club and then registered as a limited company. It's the same entity just changing form, not an entity being liquidated and asset stripped.

    But his point about the Celtic fans wanting to get one over on the newco is valid. You can imagine the songs they will come up with slagging off the situation Rangers got into. If its a different team with no history between the teams, why would they bother?


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  • #3492
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    jack presley wrote: »
    But his point about the Celtic fans wanting to get one over on the newco is valid. You can imagine the songs they will come up with slagging off the situation Rangers got into. If its a different team with no history between the teams, why would they bother?

    We'll be slagging Rangers supporters for supporting a new club. :rolleyes:
    Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

    #SFA tell newco #Rangers to get their application for SFA membership in by Friday.
    Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

    The #SFA application must include fit and proper details from administrators re Charles Green and consortium. #Rangers

    Surely he'll have to reveal where he's getting the money from before he can be considered a fit and proper person? Last thing Scottish Football needs is another cowboy. Keith Jackson reckons Sevco are heading straight for administration!


  • #3493
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    jack presley wrote: »
    If its a different team with no history between the teams, why would they bother?

    because they didn't like rangers fans when they were rangers fans, they're not going to become their mates now that they've had to go support a new club - they're going to slag the unmerciful crap out of them over it

    as any set of fans would do if their main rivals went under and the fans moved to a new club


  • #3494
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    If I set up a business as a sole trader and run it for a five years, doing well, winning local business of the year or some other local business award and later decide to run it as a Limited Company then technically it's a new business. But it's still the same business, in the same shop providing the same goods to the same customers. The business hasn't changed, I'm still entitled to keep my local business award, it's just a diffierent sheet of paper which I need to lodge at Companies House.

    We all support football clubs. Not Limited Companies. Manchester United Ltd were only formed in 1990 but the club which Beckham, Cantona, Giggs and the rest played for is the same club that Robson, Best and Charlton played for.

    Regardless of which division Rangers are in next season, they're still the same club.

    Yes, many clubs have changed their holding company, but what is happening here is that Rangers that was founded in 1872 is ceasing to exist. It is not just a change of holding companies.

    The new Rangers has to apply to the SFA for membership. If it was the same club, they wouldn't have to do that.

    The same thing has happened in the LoI. Derry City was expelled from the LoI at the end of the 2009 season and went into liquidation. A new club was set up and had to apply for FAI membership and get a new licence to compete in the LoI.

    In 2010, Cork City Football Club ceased to exist and a new club Cork City FORAS Co-op was set up. Before the start of the 2007 season, Limerick FC was denied a LoI licence was liquidated. A new club Limerick 37 was set up.

    You cannot just buy a defunct club's history.

    If the role's were reversed there's not a hope in hell that Rangers fans would be claiming a new Celtic was the same as the old club.


  • #3495
    bren2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭bren2001


    In terms of fairness "Rangers" should be booted to Div 3, but it will have huge effects on the SPL. I know I will probably end up tuning into far less games, its sad to see but its only fair.


  • #3496
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    bren2001 wrote: »
    In terms of fairness "Rangers" should be booted to Div 3, but it will have huge effects on the SPL. I know I will probably end up tuning into far less games, its sad to see but its only fair.

    would lapsed fans of non old firm clubs not be more likely to have their interest rekindled now that european or even champions league qualification is a possibility though?


  • #3497
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    jack presley wrote: »
    But his point about the Celtic fans wanting to get one over on the newco is valid. You can imagine the songs they will come up with slagging off the situation Rangers got into. If its a different team with no history between the teams, why would they bother?

    :D Because they'll need to be reminded: 0 titles, 0 cups, 0 history. ;)


  • #3498
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    If the role's were reversed there's not a hope in hell that Rangers fans would be claiming a new Celtic was the same as the old club.

    They tried it with Celtic's history after Celtic became a PLC in 94. :D


  • #3499
    Beefy78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    PauloMN wrote: »
    Not the same as the Rangers issue. You would not have liquidated a corporate entity which was encompassing a club.

    What you are talking about is what every football club has done in the past - started as a club and then registered as a limited company. It's the same entity just changing form, not an entity being liquidated and asset stripped.

    That's just semantics. Whether a company has been liquidated or it has been wound down as it has been replaced by a succeeding entity, the point is the same. There's a clear seperation between a football club and the legal entity which runs it.

    I'm an infrequent reader of this thread but I'm sure that the AFC Wimbledon/MK Dons case has been mentioned in here more than once. That's a clear precident of where the history of a club has been firmly detached from the legal entity which technically owned it. AFC Telford, Aldershot Town, Scarborough, Accrington Stanley and Chester City are all further examples of where the history and (albeit limited) honours have been transferred from liquidated clubs to their subsequent successors.

    Fiorentina is another example from further afield. Try telling a Fiorentina fan that they can't claim either of their Serie A titles.

    that all said, if this was happening my club's rivals, you're damned right that I'd be telling them that their club was dead and that they had no history ;)


  • #3500
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    Helix wrote: »
    would lapsed fans of non old firm clubs not be more likely to have their interest rekindled now that european or even champions league qualification is a possibility though?

    lol - have you looked at Scotland's slide in the Co-efficient tables lately?

    Unless Celtic have an absolutely extraordinary run in Europe this season, it's only going to get worse.
    Scotland will soon be on a level with the LOI when it comes to European qualification.


  • #3501
    bren2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Helix wrote: »
    would lapsed fans of non old firm clubs not be more likely to have their interest rekindled now that european or even champions league qualification is a possibility though?

    Yeah youd expect Motherwell, Dundee fans and the like to tune in a bit more as they will certainly do their best to win the title/get CL, but I think you lose more than you gain. More Rangers fans are lost than new/lapsed fans gained, I'd still expect the Rangers fans to tune in to the SPL but face it, most of them will just watch the EPL more.


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  • #3502
    Beefy78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Yes, many clubs have changed their holding company, but what is happening here is that Rangers that was founded in 1872 is ceasing to exist. It is not just a change of holding companies.

    No, what is happening here is that the Ltd Co formed in 1899 is ceasing to exist.


  • #3503
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    Fiorentina is another example from further afield. Try telling a Fiorentina fan that they can't claim either of their Serie A titles.

    Put one in front of me and I'd tell him :D

    Buying intellectual property of a defunct club doesnt entitle you to the history of that defunct club. To think that you can is delusional.


  • #3504
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    No, what is happening here is that the Ltd Co formed in 1899 is ceasing to exist.

    So if the club is the same, why are they having to apply for membership of the SFL? It's a new club, simple as that. Surely if the club was a seperate entity it would stay in the SPL.


  • #3505
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    AFC Telford, Aldershot Town, Scarborough, Accrington Stanley and Chester City are all further examples of where the history and (albeit limited) honours have been transferred from liquidated clubs to their subsequent successors.

    Can you provide any links for the above?


  • #3506
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,215 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    No, what is happening here is that the Ltd Co formed in 1899 is ceasing to exist.

    As is the football club.


  • #3507
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    PauloMN wrote: »
    So if the club is the same, why are they having to apply for membership of the SFL? It's a new club, simple as that. Surely if the club was a seperate entity it would stay in the SPL.

    They dont have SFA membership yet, they arent playing in a recognised football league according to the SFA, their owner hasnt passed a fit and proper persons test, he doesnt have a business plan yet, they cannot label themselves Rangers until Rangers(in administration) is liquidated which is months away, they have no leagues or cups, they only have 2 players at the moment (which they cannot afford to keep for long at this moment in time) yet some think its the same club, LOL! :D


  • #3508
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,590 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    This is a disaster for the SPL and Celtic. Celtic fans need to realise this and realise it fast.


  • #3509
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    kippy wrote: »
    This is a disaster for the SPL and Celtic. Celtic fans need to realise this and realise it fast.

    the latest spl tv deal was £80m for 4 years... at an even share that's less than £7m per club per season, and it's mickey mouse money to sky. i can't see it being that big an issue financially surely. clubs each lose 2 home games against rangers, and the small receipts from the 2 away games, again would that damage them that much?

    that said i dont follow the spl


  • #3510
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    kippy wrote: »
    This is a disaster for the SPL and Celtic. Celtic fans need to realise this and realise it fast.

    Im sure you have detailed information about this impending danger???!
    Helix wrote: »
    the latest spl tv deal was £80m for 4 years... at an even share that's less than £7m per club per season, and it's mickey mouse money to sky. i can't see it being that big an issue financially surely. clubs each lose 2 home games against rangers, and the small receipts from the 2 away games, again would that damage them that much?

    that said i dont follow the spl

    Aberdeen says it would take the club to sell 300 extra season books to offset the loss of Rangers.

    EDIT

    AwUlVeGCEAALNSC.jpg:large

    The offices of hampden in full swing! :rolleyes:


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  • #3511
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    kippy wrote: »
    This is a disaster for the SPL and Celtic. Celtic fans need to realise this and realise it fast.

    And, prey tell, what the fcuk can Celtic fans do about it (other than enjoy the ride)?

    It is completely out of our control.

    You attitude is hilarious!


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