Do you go to the pub or places with alcohol

oceanclub · 10-01-2011 01:18PM

Coronary heart disease is still Ireland's biggest killer, accounting for a third of all deaths (down from a phenomenal 54% of deaths in the 1970s, presumably due to diet change and improved medicine). Its main causes are smoking and unhealthy eating, and it appears to be the case that moderate drinking of wine lessens the risk. ("Epidemiological studies indicate that consumption of alcohol at the level of intake in France (20-30 g per day) can reduce risk of CH D by at least 40%.")

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/c/coronary_heart_disease/causes.htm
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/014067369291277F

P.

irishconvert · 10-01-2011 02:18PM

Mark Hamill wrote: »

They would be similar, yes. The social issues arising out of each would be different yes, but in terms of financial strain on the state and emotional strain on friends and relatives of the abuser the harm would be quite similar.

Ok, well Islam discourages excessive eating also, as hivizman posted earlier.

irishconvert · 10-01-2011 02:20PM

oceanclub wrote: »

Coronary heart disease is still Ireland's biggest killer, accounting for a third of all deaths (down from a phenomenal 54% of deaths in the 1970s, presumably due to diet change and improved medicine). Its main causes are smoking and unhealthy eating, and it appears to be the case that moderate drinking of wine lessens the risk. ("Epidemiological studies indicate that consumption of alcohol at the level of intake in France (20-30 g per day) can reduce risk of CH D by at least 40%.")

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/c/coronary_heart_disease/causes.htm
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/014067369291277F

P.

Well, as hivziman posted earlier:

hivziman wrote:

The Qur'an contains a verse generally considered to have been revealed before the verse in Surah al-Maidah (5:90) that forbids intoxicants. This verse, Surah al-Baqarah 2:219, is regarded as having been abrogated by the later verse in Surah al-Maidah. In Muhammad Asad's translation, the verse reads:

"They will ask thee about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: 'In both there is great evil as well as some benefit for man: But the evil which they cause is greater than the benefit which they bring'."

oceanclub · 10-01-2011 02:28PM

irishconvert wrote: »

Ok, well Islam discourages excessive eating also, as hivizman posted earlier.

Discourages but doesn't ban. The religious police in Malaysia don't seem concerned by the epidemic in fast food eating and type 2 diabetes in children, for example (more fast food is now eaten there per capita than in the USA).

P.

irishconvert · 10-01-2011 02:30PM

oceanclub wrote: »

Discourages but doesn't ban. The religious police in Malaysia don't seem concerned by the epidemic in fast food eating and type 2 diabetes in children, for example (more fast food is now eaten there per capita than in the USA).

P.

I suppose over-eating is not in your face like over indulgence in alcohol is. It doesn't lead the person to other sins like being drunk would.

10-01-2011 02:39PM

craggles wrote: »

The vast majority of people who choose to drink accept all of the consequences of said drinking

Eh no they don't judging by all the "but I was drunk so I'm not responsible" excuses

oceanclub · 10-01-2011 02:42PM

irishconvert wrote: »

I suppose over-eating is not in your face like over indulgence in alcohol is. It doesn't lead the person to other sins like being drunk would.

If you want to ban alcohol because you feel it leads to sinning, that's one thing. But bringing health benefits into the debate then seems like a red herring.

P.

hivizman · 10-01-2011 04:03PM

The Islamic prohibition of alcohol consumption is of a different nature from a dislike of over-eating and any deduced prohibition of smoking, because the prohibition is clearly stated in the Qur'an (Surah al-Maidah 5:90). In addition, there are various hadiths backing up this prohibition, including one narrated by al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah (with variants narrated by Ahmed and Abu Dawud):

Anas said that: "The Messenger of Allah cursed ten categories of people who deal with intoxicants: (1) the one who manufactures it; (2) the one who orders, or pays for, it to be manufactured; (3) the one who drinks it; (4) the one who delivers it; (5) the one to whom it is delivered; (6) the one who serves it; (7) the one who sells it; (8) the one who gains money from it; (9) the one who buys it; and (10) the one for whom it is bought."

For many Muslims, there is no need to probe further - Allah has prohibited the consumption of intoxicants, and that's the end of the discussion. People who take this view would believe that, if Allah has legislated something through a clear statement in the Qur'an, then it is the duty of the Muslim (who by definition is one who submits himself or herself to the Will of Allah) to obey without question.

Other Muslims believe that Allah would not legislate to forbid something without a sound reason, so if consumption of intoxicants is forbidden, this is because intoxicants are harmful. One of the books in my collection, Healing Body & Soul: Your Guide to Holistic Wellbeing Following Islamic Teachings, by Amira Ayad (Riyadh: International Islamic Publishing House, 2008) takes this approach, setting out the prohibition on consuming intoxicants in Surah al-Maidah, then providing a page of discussion of the dangers of alcohol from a health perspective.

To a Muslim, evidence of the beneficial aspects of drinking alcohol is irrelevant - drinking alcohol is haram, and that's it. So I agree with Oceanclub that, from an Islamic perspective, bringing arguments about health benefits into the debate is a red herring, indeed even discussing the consequences, good or bad, of drinking alcohol is strictly irrelevant.

Even if the beneficial aspects of drinking alcohol outweighed the adverse aspects, the ban on alcohol, because it is set out in the Qur'an, would remain - in this situation, Islamic scholars would probably interpret it as one of the ways in which the Qur'an legislates for Muslims to be different from non-Muslims.

On the other hand, smoking and over-eating are not specifically prohibited, so arguments about the benefits and disadvantages of such practices are relevant.

irishconvert · 10-01-2011 04:06PM

Hivizman says everything I want to say but am too lazy to type/research! lol

squeakyduck · 11-01-2011 01:13AM

irishconvert wrote: »

It doesn't lead the person to other sins like being drunk would.

Gluttony and hedonism?

dead one · 15-06-2012 07:20AM

oceanclub wrote: »

Coronary heart disease is still Ireland's biggest killer, accounting for a third of all deaths (down from a phenomenal 54% of deaths in the 1970s, presumably due to diet change and improved medicine). Its main causes are smoking and unhealthy eating, and it appears to be the case that moderate drinking of wine lessens the risk. ("Epidemiological studies indicate that consumption of alcohol at the level of intake in France (20-30 g per day) can reduce risk of CH D by at least 40%.")

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/c/coronary_heart_disease/causes.htm
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/014067369291277F
P.

Ah it doesn't appear drinking of wine increase risk for others

Sex – The same amount of alcohol leads to a higher blood alcohol concentration (BAC) in women than in men, as women tend to have a smaller body size, a lower proportion of lean tissue and smaller livers than men. On the other hand, the higher level of risk-taking behaviour among men means that, over a lifetime, the risks to males exceed the risks to females.

Age – In general, younger people are less tolerant to alcohol and have less experience of drinking and its effects. In addition, puberty is often accompanied by risk-taking behaviours. Later in life, as people age, their tolerance for alcohol decreases and the risk of falling, driving accidents and adverse interactions with medications increases.

Mental health – people who have, or are prone to, mental health conditions (eg: anxiety and depression, schizophrenia) may have worse symptoms after drinking. Alcohol can also trigger a variety of mental health conditions in people who are already prone to these conditions.

Other health conditions that are made worse by alcohol – people who already have health conditions caused or exacerbated by alcohol, such as epilepsy, alcohol dependence, cirrhosis of the liver, alcoholic hepatitis or pancreatitis, are at risk of the condition becoming worse if they drink alcohol.

Medication and drug use – alcohol can interact with a wide range of prescribed and over-the-counter medications, herbal preparations and illicit drugs. This can alter the effect of either the alcohol or the medication and has the potential to cause serious harm to both the drinker and others.

Family history of alcohol dependence – people who have a family history of alcohol dependence (particularly among first-degree relatives) have an increased risk of developing a dependence.
http://www.whentosaywhen.com.au/effectsofalcohal.htm

Corkfeen · 15-06-2012 08:12AM

Everything you've started pretty much everyone knows. But that does not negate the fact that consuming moderate amounts of alcohol can be beneficial to your health. Why exactly did you bump a year old thread?

dead one · 15-06-2012 09:27AM

Corkfeen wrote: »

Everything you've started pretty much everyone knows. But that does not negate the fact that consuming moderate amounts of alcohol can be beneficial to your health. Why exactly did you bump a year old thread?

Consuming moderate amount of alcohol ... are you kidding.. It's addiction and this sickness increases with increase in time. I dont understand what do you mean by moderate amount...

Corkfeen wrote: »

Why exactly did you bump a year old thread?

because i like to repeat history, and history is filled with liar wearing blue robs, dear corkfeen

Khannie · 15-06-2012 10:02AM

dead one wrote: »

I dont understand what do you mean by moderate amount...

I think you've probably got a pretty good idea what a moderate amount is. If you don't understand what moderate means, any of the large number of online dictionaries should help you out.

Corkfeen · 15-06-2012 10:03AM

dead one wrote: »

Corkfeen wrote: »

Everything you've started pretty much everyone knows. But that does not negate the fact that consuming moderate amounts of alcohol can be beneficial to your health. Why exactly did you bump a year old thread?

Consuming moderate amount of alcohol ... are you kidding.. It's addiction and this sickness increases with increase in time. I dont understand what do you mean by moderate amount...

Once again exaggeration from Dead One cuts in. Not every single person that drinks is an alcoholic. For example, I'm not a major drinker, I think I've gone for a drink about twice this year, does this make me an addict? Plenty of people are capable of drinking small quantities of alcohol and to reap the benefits of it . But sure it doesn't matter anyway, sure aren't all the dog owners dying of sickness anyway? I'm also a bit of a historian, where do I get these blue robes?

dead one · 15-06-2012 10:13AM

Corkfeen wrote: »

Once again exaggeration from Dead One cuts in. Not every single person that drinks is an alcoholic. For example, I'm not a major drinker, I think I've gone for a drink about twice this year, does this make me an addict? Plenty of people are capable of drinking small quantities of alcohol and to reap the benefits of it . But sure it doesn't matter anyway, sure aren't all the dog owners dying of sickness anyway? I'm also a bit of a historian, where do I get these blue robes?

See Dear corkfeen, five fingers aren't equal, majority of people who drink alcohol become addictive to it. We aren't talking about individuals. We are talking about society, alcoholism creates society of people who suffer with moral disorder/corruption. Alcohol has its advantage but disadvantages are greater than advantages.

sure aren't all the dog owners dying of sickness anyway?

sickness is related to spiritual heath of heart. Yeah for sure people are dead they can't understand simple things. Alcohol affects spiritual health of heart as well physical.

Khannie · 15-06-2012 10:25AM

dead one wrote: »

majority of people who drink alcohol become addictive to it.

By this logic, most Irish adults are alcoholics. Is that your view?

dead one · 15-06-2012 10:33AM

Khannie wrote: »

By this logic, most Irish adults are alcoholics. Is that your view?

No i don't mean like that. I am talking in general about people who support alcoholism. I don't mean to point any special society.

shizz · 15-06-2012 10:36AM

dead one wrote: »

No i don't mean like that. I am talking in general about people who support alcoholism. I don't mean to point any special society.

Who supports alcoholism?

Sonics2k · 17-06-2012 10:14PM

dead one wrote: »

majority of people who drink alcohol become addictive to it.

That's just plain nonsense really. I'd be amazed if you have any stats to actually back that up.

In moderation, alcohol is fine. I'd have a beer once a month maybe, depending on how sunny it is.
But just like say, Sugar, too much of it is dangerous, but a normal amount is fine.

dead one · 18-06-2012 04:14AM

shizz wrote: »

Who supports alcoholism?

people who think there is no danger alcohol drinks. Moderate wine drinking gives certain changes in the brain, physical and mental health. It increase heart beat and it results heart attack. People suffer with migraine headaches.The other thing of alcohol consumption is sleeping disorders... So get some rest and sleep and then please come back.

dead one · 18-06-2012 04:21AM

Sonics2k wrote: »

That's just plain nonsense really. I'd be amazed if you have any stats to actually back that up.

In moderation, alcohol is fine. I'd have a beer once a month maybe, depending on how sunny it is.
But just like say, Sugar, too much of it is dangerous, but a normal amount is fine.

You are very arrogant, Honesty, isn't it too much dangerous, This is side of effect of monthly drinking, what would happen if you drink it regularly. I was once a heavy drinker, Now i am fine, See it would be quite hypocritical, if I support wine because i drink it once or twice of in a week or month. Alcohol overall creates a people society with sick people. Sick with unknown disease. Sick with b$. As I have seen a lot of suffering and pain. So we shouldn't ban alcoholic drink. Right

Wibbs · 18-06-2012 08:45AM

dead one wrote: »

Moderate wine drinking gives certain changes in the brain, physical and mental health. It increase heart beat and it results heart attack.

Actually moderate wine drinking has a protective effect on the heart(and has other protective effects too). Numerous studies back this up. Obviously moderate is the key here.

Corkfeen · 18-06-2012 09:01AM

Wibbs wrote: »

dead one wrote: »

Moderate wine drinking gives certain changes in the brain, physical and mental health. It increase heart beat and it results heart attack.

Actually moderate wine drinking has a protective effect on the heart(and has other protective effects too). Numerous studies back this up. Obviously moderate is the key here.

It's probably not worth pointing out. He tends to deny all evidence. He is likely to respond with a video of a drunk person while saying this is all the evidence he needs.....

dead one · 18-06-2012 09:02AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually moderate wine drinking has a protective effect on the heart(and has other protective effects too). Numerous studies back this up. Obviously moderate is the key here.

I don't believe in theories, I believe in evidence, Isn't it popular dialog in these days. I know two person who died of heart attack, both were moderate drinkers, either your theories are wrong or there is purpose of selling wine in your theories. Who on earth knows, why didn't wine protect their hearts who died so early. They were very healthy , one of the person who died a few days ago, i met him a day before his death, He was quite healthy.

dead one · 18-06-2012 09:06AM

Corkfeen wrote: »

It's probably not worth pointing out. He tends to deny all evidence. He is likely to respond with a video of a drunk person while saying this is all the evidence he needs.....

all evidence, Are you kidding. I believe in evidence, I am an atheist, evidence suggests islam is very right about prohibition of alcohol, because it destroys societies. It creates sick people who know nothing about relation like mother/sister/father. It creates sicks people who tend to deny all evidence.

Corkfeen · 18-06-2012 09:10AM

dead one wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually moderate wine drinking has a protective effect on the heart(and has other protective effects too). Numerous studies back this up. Obviously moderate is the key here.

I don't believe in theories, I believe in evidence, Isn't it popular dialog in these days. I know two person who died of heart attack, both were moderate drinkers, either your theories are wrong or there is purpose of selling wine in your theories. Who on earth knows, why didn't wine protect their hearts who died so early.

It lessens the risk of a heart attack, it doesn't guarantee that they won't have a heart attack.. People who don't drink at all tend to be more likely to have a heart attack than moderate drinkers.

I also know heavy drinkers who lived till an old age that didn't get heart attacks, I wouldn't say this proves that excessive drinking prevents heart attacks, they were merely the few that didn't fit the stats.

dead one · 18-06-2012 09:23AM

[QUOTE=Corkfeen;79263744 it doesn't guarantee that they won't have a heart attack.. [/quote]
[/QUOTE]
It means there is no guarantee that this life is easy. So Wibbs is telling me
wine drinking has a protective effect, when I saw two people lost their lives in shadow of these protective effect, It means protective effect is all BS. There is no protection, it's only to sell wine.

Corkfeen · 18-06-2012 09:45AM

dead one wrote: »

It means there is no guarantee that this life is easy. So Wibbs is telling me
wine drinking has a protective effect, when I saw two people lost their lives in shadow of these protective effect, It means protective effect is all BS. There is no protection, it's only to sell wine.

Congratulations, you are the first to be added to my ignore list. I assume you'll probably say it's because you speak the truth but the truth is that you're entirely unreasonable and irritating posters aren't worth listening to....

dead one · 18-06-2012 10:23AM

Corkfeen wrote: »

I assume you'll probably say it's because you speak the truth but the truth is that entirely unreasonable and irritating posters aren't worth listening to....

Why were you afraid. I wasn't going to eat you. But its ends.

Paint the sky grey like a coward

Do you go to the pub or places with alcohol

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