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A Question Relating to Dogs and Islam

2456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,202 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    dead one wrote: »
    I am saying the second part of your above quote.. See if you get involved with a dog in your house... like touching it, or the dog is touching your pots etc you will get a disease

    While any dog I have had has been fairly domesticated, they have never, to the best of my knowledge, possessed sufficient dexterity to open cupboards and pull out any pots.

    And when it came to unloading the dishwasher, that was generally a task for the humans.

    So, if a dog is not touching my pots, not unloading my dishwasher, not sharing meals at the family table, not sleeping in my bed, not sitting on the sofa, trained to defecate and urinate outside, am I still liable to get diseases?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    No its not. You haven't justified anything you have claimed with a single piece of independent evidence. You are just making empty claims, which contradict the experiences of anyone who actually has owned a dog. You don't seem to get quite how many people actually keep dogs in the western world, and how closely some of them live with them.
    House smelling like dog. That's big disadvantage of dog... You get smell from dog and it can hurt people to whom you meat... But you've your desires.. Sometime dogs are very expensive to keep... You could use the same money to help needy... Are dogs more important in this world than human who are suffering... I have justified my claims but you people are denial.... The evidence itself can't convince you then what am I...Keeping a dog requires time and you're wasting your life with these dogs instead of your human fellow being like mothers fathers... This is also one of the reason why children don't respect their elders in western society.. Why fathers/mother have been left when they reach to old age... Such a shame


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    You would assume then, given that there are over 78 million pet dogs in the US alone, that there would be a lot of cases of transmitted diseases then. Could it be that simply keeping your dog clean and healthy (a lot of the diseases mentioned in your link can be avoided by having your dog lice- and tick-free), and washing your hands after handling your dog is enough to combat most of these.

    Incidentally, there are also diseases transmittable by horses, cats and even aquarium fish, so why again aren't these mentioned in the quran?
    Why should I risk myself.. When there is no need to keep a dogs... why should i waste my life with dogs then wash my hands again and again...Everything in the world happen for a reason.. Why are you people keeping a dog when there is no need to keep it..


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/61316.php
    One example of dogs being beneficial for your health. It's also better to backup your claims rather than posting YouTube videos of dogs eating crap.(Which is highly unusual) Name a few of the diseases that I've picked up from owning a dog? ;) I'd also like to know why the vast majority of the world isn't dropping dead from the diseases which apparently all dogs are spreading.
    I don't believe in you example... I believe in evidence ;)... The evidence I have seen that dogs eat their own sh!t... and you're saying dogs are beneficial for you health... Holy cow... I don't believe in these artical written by dogs sellers as to fool humanity as its the only way to sell their dogs... Corkeen dogs will lead some serious problem to your psychology and health and when the destruction begin remember me....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    While any dog I have had has been fairly domesticated, they have never, to the best of my knowledge, possessed sufficient dexterity to open cupboards and pull out any pots.

    And when it came to unloading the dishwasher, that was generally a task for the humans.

    So, if a dog is not touching my pots, not unloading my dishwasher, not sharing meals at the family table, not sleeping in my bed, not sitting on the sofa, trained to defecate and urinate outside, am I still liable to get diseases?
    Tom dunne, it depends upon your time... The time which you spend with your dog... It also depends your close attachment to dogs.. I mean, you relationship with dogs...you see dogs will show some serious issue if you keep closely attach them to your family..... This can lead serious problem to your family.. ... Watch this video and think why has islam forbidden dogs... Who would like such scene.. who would like such a dog with in the family.... Only athiest will do because it fun for them........ and shame on the girl in the video she is laughing...

    It's such a shame for all the dogs lover.. They should die after watching this video.. The video I am posting here is clear evidence why dogs aren't in Islam but you people are denial... No one can convince It doesn't matter how harder some tries... Keep dogs with yourselves and with your family... they will provide a company to your family... Actaully i don't want to go into the detail of this issue..... I am sure you would get point... Why I am posting such video here... The...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    Corkeen dogs will lead some serious problem to your psychology and health and when the destruction begin remember me....

    Ah now, whatever about dogs, leave the ones from Cork alone.

    P.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Originally Posted by dead one
    Corkeen dogs will lead some serious problem to your psychology and health and when the destruction begin remember me....

    How many Corkeen dogs do you have? I've been witnessing your mental deterioration for some time now.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    How many Corkeen dogs do you have? I've been witnessing your mental deterioration for some time now.
    my mental deterioration .. Is that a problem for you... If it is problem then keep a dog that eats its own sh!t .. don't bother to quote me again...I am tired your mental deterioration.. Are you feeling something by now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    dead one wrote: »
    Corkfeen wrote: »
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/61316.php
    One example of dogs being beneficial for your health. It's also better to backup your claims rather than posting YouTube videos of dogs eating crap.(Which is highly unusual) Name a few of the diseases that I've picked up from owning a dog? ;) I'd also like to know why the vast majority of the world isn't dropping dead from the diseases which apparently all dogs are spreading.
    I don't believe in you example... I believe in evidence ;)... The evidence I have seen that dogs eat their own sh!t... and you're saying dogs are beneficial for you health... Holy cow... I don't believe in these artical written by dogs sellers as to fool humanity as its the only way to sell their dogs... Corkeen dogs will lead some serious problem to your psychology and health and when the destruction begin remember me....
    I'll apply your reasoning to humans. Humans have been known to eat humans and even crap so that must mean all humans eat crap and engage in cannibalism, that includes you dead one. ;) You haven't proven anything sir. Other than the fact that you are severely lacking in a basic education. YouTube videos of dogs doing different things is not a valid source. And I've had people in their eighties living in our house who enjoyed the company of dogs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    House smelling like dog. That's big disadvantage of dog... You get smell from dog and it can hurt people to whom you meat...

    All animals smell, ever smell a kitty litter box after a male cat has used it, worse than any dog I've smelled. My sister has had lizards, friends have had rabbits, they all smell. Its not that hard to keep them clean though, even for indoors (wash them, brush their fur, keep their coat trim etc).
    dead one wrote: »
    But you've your desires.. Sometime dogs are very expensive to keep... You could use the same money to help needy... Are dogs more important in this world than human who are suffering...

    All animals are expensive. Many are as, or more, expensive than dogs to keep. So why single out dogs? People spend too much money on everything, from designer shoes to sports cars. Should we eliminate all superfluous spending and give all of our money to the poor?
    dead one wrote: »
    I have justified my claims but you people are denial.... The evidence itself can't convince you then what am I...Keeping a dog requires time and you're wasting your life with these dogs instead of your human fellow being like mothers fathers... This is also one of the reason why children don't respect their elders in western society.. Why fathers/mother have been left when they reach to old age... Such a shame

    People ignore their grand parents in favour of dogs? Have you ever had a pet dog? Is it even common in your country? (I know you are not from Ireland, I assume you live in a middle eastern country?). I dont think you actually know anything about dogs from experience. You are making up stuff, or reading it from some apologists websites.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    Why should I risk myself.. When there is no need to keep a dogs... why should i waste my life with dogs then wash my hands again and again...Everything in the world happen for a reason.. Why are you people keeping a dog when there is no need to keep it..

    Why do people buy designer shoes, why do they read fiction, or go to the gym? Because it fulfils something in them. Dogs, once treated well and taken care, offer no more risk than any other animal and actually give a lot of love and companionship back (Corkfeen's link talks about the mental health aspects of owning a pet).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,097 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Not long after getting my Saluki I was in London & we were approached by a group of Muslim men - we were in Regents Park near the Mosque. One man bent down & stroked the dog, he even let her lick his hand. He was an Imam & he started to explain how a Saluki was special & revered. He told me that Saluki was a special word that separated the Saluki from the normal dog Kelb.

    I became fascinated by the history & I obtained a copy of a TV program broadcast on RTE. It featured Salukis in Saudi Arabia & at one point an expert discusses how a Saluki is not considered a dog & may share a man's home & his food. They they cut to a shot of Salukis sitting around next to men whilst they were eating.

    Vera H Watkins in her book Saluki Companion of Kings also describes the unique status of the Saluki in Islam. The exemption only applies to the Saluki which was then known as the Persian Greyhound & the breed has been retained as pure for over 5000 years - making it the oldest defined breed of dog. So the Saluki was seen as special long before the birth of Islam.

    The status of the Saluki is shown by the fact that it features on the stamps of many Islamic countries. These images also show the wide variation on appearance between the different coat types.

    bahr256.jpg

    salArabianSalukiEnv.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭mosi


    From what I can see by doing internet searches, there seems to be a number of different interpretations and contradictions regarding dogs and Islam.
    It appears that in some stories, the Prophet prayed while dogs were playing around him. I have also seen how different traditions in Islam appear to hold alternate views on dogs - while some consider dogs to be unclean, others consider the saliva, but not the hair to be impure. I have also read that the Sunni Maliki school considers dogs to be pure.

    I also find it very interesting - and this related to my original post - that some dogs - such as the saluki, sloughi and similar, appear to have traditionally held an elevated status as compared to others. Many articles indicate that these hunting dogs were allowed into the home. Furthermore, amongst Arab peoples, the Saluki is referrred to as "al-Hurr" or "El Hor", the "noble one", rather than "kelb", the word for other dogs.
    http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/197302/al-hurr.the.noble.one.htm
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/714041375

    What makes these dogs so different? I would guess that a key historical differentiation may be between that of a prized hunting hound and a feral street dog. It has been suggested that the designation of dogs as unclean may originate in the prevalence of rabies in the region during the time of the Prophet. Also, it would be fair to surmise that the flea, tick and worming treatments that we use today, were not - and still are not, in many parts of the world - available. There is a problem with this theory though...

    Much has been made on this thread of the supposed unhygenic nature of dogs with regard to disease, certain habits etc. However, cats appear to be acceptable in Islam, yet cats may carry just as many of the diseases that dogs are supposed to. Cats can have rabies (in countries where the disease occurs), while toxoplasmosis may be caused by cat faeces. Of course, as with the canine equivalent, occurences of this are extremely rare. Like dogs, cats also lick their own behinds. Both animals then, can be seen to have some unseemly habits and can carry zoonotic diseases, yet why are cats accepted? I would love to know, particularly in light of the implication here that people who live with dogs will all die a horrible death as a result.

    There are other theories as to where the problem with dogs came from. Some indicated that the issue was picked up on as some pre-Islamic cultures took issue with dogs - particularly black dogs, a superstition that was also common in Europe. As we are all aware, religions have historically sought to incorporate some elements of existing traditions in order to successfully convert the masses (our own St Brigid for example, is also a goddess in pre-Christian traditions). Conversely, it it suggested elswhere (Mary Boyce, 1979, "Zoroastrians, Their Religious Beliefs and Practices", p. 252), that early Islam was not particularly averse to dogs, but that the hostility to them was fostered with the Islamic conquest of Persia (Iran), as part of the subugation of the indigenous Zoroastrians who considered dogs to be sacred.

    Whatever the origins and interpretations, it helps nobody to try and use pseudo-scientific ideas and random Youtube videos to try and cast dogs as unclean. As has been said by other posters, if dogs were so diseased, then all of us who have kept them for many years, would be horribly ill. Indeed, many studies show that children who grow up with pets have stronger immune systems and are less likely to suffer allergies than those who do not. Furthermore, dog ownership has been proven, in numerous studies, to have many health benefits
    http://www.rte.ie/worldanimalweek/benefits/index.html

    Finally, I think it should stand to reason that the interpretations of what dogs are permissible or not, or where they should be kept, could be adapted to modern society. After all, living conditions in the time and place of the Prophet are vastly different now. For example, pet dogs today may also be said to provide a guarding duty, by alerting their owners to anyone approaching. In some circumstances, particularly in city houses or apartments, this duty is best performed by the dog being in the house. Similarly, given the aforementioned health benefits of dog ownership, surely these give the dog a "purpose" compatible with Islam?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    dead one wrote: »
    my mental deterioration .. Is that a problem for you... If it is problem then keep a dog that eats its own sh!t .. don't bother to quote me again...I am tired your mental deterioration.. Are you feeling something by now
    why dont you say it as it is,the reason islam has a ban on dogs isent because of disease,its because that muhammad ruled that the angels would not answer his prayers because all blackdogs were devils and they would not come into his house with them there,strange really because dogs would travel with him and hang around his camp fires


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    dead one's "reasoning":
    Untrained (Uncivilised) dogs can do things that may lead to disease --> No pet dogs of any kind in an Islamic house : Evidence = Youtube videos

    Uncivilised humans are equally capable of doing things that may lead to the spread of disease. By dead one's way of thinking, no humans should stay in an Islamic house.

    It's an embarrassingly poor reason to explain why people shouldn't keep dogs as pets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    dead one's "reasoning":
    Untrained (Uncivilised) dogs can do things that may lead to disease --> No pet dogs of any kind in an Islamic house : Evidence = Youtube videos

    Uncivilised humans are equally capable of doing things that may lead to the spread of disease. By dead one's way of thinking, no humans should stay in an Islamic house.

    It's an embarrassingly poor reason to explain why people shouldn't keep dogs as pets.
    like everthing in life,its all down to religious interpretation,many islamic and christian laws of the passed no longer make any sense .no longer religious inquisitions [christion] or shooting a jew hiding behind a rock [islam],when i walk my bullie down the street i get all sort of reactions from our muslim british citizens,from the young islamic children running over wanting to pat and kiss him when at the same time their mother stands well away in fear,so its down to your religious upbringing and westernization


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭wildlifeboy


    dead one wrote: »
    House smelling like dog. That's big disadvantage of dog... You get smell from dog and it can hurt people to whom you meat... But you've your desires.. Sometime dogs are very expensive to keep... You could use the same money to help needy... Are dogs more important in this world than human who are suffering... I have justified my claims but you people are denial.... The evidence itself can't convince you then what am I...Keeping a dog requires time and you're wasting your life with these dogs instead of your human fellow being like mothers fathers... This is also one of the reason why children don't respect their elders in western society.. Why fathers/mother have been left when they reach to old age... Such a shame
    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA you complete clown, I have found either the biggest troll or the biggest knobend on the internet!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,097 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    mosi wrote: »
    Finally, I think it should stand to reason that the interpretations of what dogs are permissible or not, or where they should be kept, could be adapted to modern society. After all, living conditions in the time and place of the Prophet are vastly different now. For example, pet dogs today may also be said to provide a guarding duty, by alerting their owners to anyone approaching. In some circumstances, particularly in city houses or apartments, this duty is best performed by the dog being in the house. Similarly, given the aforementioned health benefits of dog ownership, surely these give the dog a "purpose" compatible with Islam?

    Of course they do but, like every other religion, Islam ignores the passage of time & progress. 2000 years ago Saluki's were very rare as they could only be owned by Nobility - even today you cannot buy a Saluki in Saudi, you have to be given one. A neighbour of mine used to live in Saudi as her husband was the Irish Ambassador - they received two Salukis as a gift to mark his appointment.

    By the time that Islam was becoming established the Saluki was only kept by Royalty & those appointed by them so it was seen as a status symbol. So much so that Tintoretto painted a Saluki at the feet of Jesus to show his significance as a King. There are other dogs that are just as good at hunting but the Saluki was perceived as being special which may be why it is singled out in Islam.

    The problem with every religion is that the texts & teachings are interpreted by those with a vested interest. Very few people were able to read & over time different branches of religions interpret the "teachings" in different ways.
    dead one wrote: »
    I know it stupid to post such video here, but it is related to article why Islam is religion of nature... Thank you

    I find it disappointing that someone who advocates the goodness & benefit of Islam chooses such images to support their opinion. You should be promoting your faith & not seeking reason to defame the faith of others.
    getz wrote: »
    ,when i walk my bullie down the street i get all sort of reactions from our muslim british citizens,from the young islamic children running over wanting to pat and kiss him when at the same time their mother stands well away in fear,so its down to your religious upbringing and westernization

    I lived next to a lovely Muslim family in the UK. They welcomed my dogs, even into their house. When I mentioned that I thought dogs were banned my neighbour said "You welcome my family to your home & I welcome yours to mine" - he treated the dogs as if they were my children. He even bought bags of off cuts from the Shish Kebabs as treats for them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭wildlifeboy


    Lets not forget that all dogs Salukis included are the same species so Saluki or Chihuahua make absolutely no difference!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,097 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Lets not forget that all dogs Salukis included are the same species so Saluki or Chihuahua make absolutely no difference!

    I agree. The fact that one breed is revered which others are banned is bizarre. But you have to think of the mindset 2000 years ago.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    living in a country that one in every three households has a dog,it must be very tricky for a devout muslim,just by walking down a street you can get covered in dog hair,in my case i dont think food tastes the same without dog hair in it,just think geting a bag of chips and saying;does this chip taste of collie ?er no i think its poodle


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    getz wrote: »
    like everthing in life,its all down to religious interpretation,many islamic and christian laws of the passed no longer make any sense .no longer religious inquisitions [christion] or shooting a jew hiding behind a rock [islam],when i walk my bullie down the street i get all sort of reactions from our muslim british citizens,from the young islamic children running over wanting to pat and kiss him when at the same time their mother stands well away in fear,so its down to your religious upbringing and westernization
    Even in countries with a sizeable Islamic population (North Africa for example) there's nothing really made of keeping dogs as pets. It's quite acceptable and only the extremest of extreme would make an issue of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    I honestly cannot tell if our dear dead friend is an idiot, or just some insane troll of wonderfully terrifying proportions.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    I honestly cannot tell if our dear dead friend is an idiot, or just some insane troll of wonderfully terrifying proportions.
    would you please attack the post not poster... I guess you're not idiot... As you're quite intelligent but not than me... but it's very sad to know when some people badly busted they start attacking the users like Dades.. I feel pity.. I have proven all my point why dogs lead some serious issues in house... the youtube videos which i posted are clear as crystal... and some people start denying these videos that you tube videos aren't science..... my duty is only to convey message... I can't cure you people from sickness... The sickness with which corkfeen is suffering.. I am only tutor/mentor..thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    What sickness is this? I've never heard anyone describe normality as a sickness. Youtube videos of dogs is not scientific evidence as I have already explained.... I shall apply the dead one's amazing scientific abilities to this thread now. Here's a video of a dog playing a piano. This is clear evidence that dogs are musical geniuses.......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    dead one wrote: »
    would you please attack the post not poster... I guess you're not idiot... As you're quite intelligent but not than me...
    If you want people to agree with you on that, prove it. So far, you've done nothing but prove the opposite.
    but it's very sad to know when some people badly busted they start attacking the users like Dades.. I feel pity..
    I feel that you're conceited in yourself and your "points" and have deluded yourself to think that what you posted actually has any weight.
    I have proven all my point why dogs lead some serious issues in house...
    No, you haven't. Youtube videos are not scientific evidence of general trends in a particular species. In fact, as I said earlier, on youtube there are far more videos of humans doing things that may cause "serious issues" than dogs. By your way of thinking, as certain humans cause "serious issues", all humans should be banned from the home.
    the youtube videos which i posted are clear as crystal... and some people start denying these videos that you tube videos aren't science..... my duty is only to convey message...
    Poor righteous you trying to "convey a message" against the swathes of people looking for a bit more than nonsensical reasoning and random Youtube videos. Your attempts on this thread so far have been embarrassingly pathetic.
    I can't cure you people from sickness... The sickness with which corkfeen is suffering.. I am only tutor/mentor..thanks
    And it appears that nothing can cure you of your ignorance and inability to make a single reasoned point. That appears to be your "sickness".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    but it's very sad to know when some people badly busted they start attacking the users like Dades..

    Its very rude to attack a poster in a forum they don't frequent. If you want to complain about Dades then you should let him know so he can defend himself.
    dead one wrote: »
    I have proven all my point why dogs lead some serious issues in house...

    You have done no such thing. You have ignored every point put to you and relied on a youtube video as if it represented all dogs. I used to think you weren't a troll, that you were just a strong believer with poor english. But someone that will just put do the intellectual equivalent of putting their fingers in their ears clearly lacks any conviction in what they say.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    This could have been an interesting thread.

    I have been told that Russian Orthodox Old Ritualists in Siberia believe that dog's are accursed because they were supposed to warn Adam of any danger in Eden but instead slept which allowed the serpent to take advantage. It would be interesting to hear if similar stories exist in Islamic culture; however what he get instead is the self-righteous pontificating of intolerant "Liberals".
    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    It would be interesting to hear if similar stories exist in Islamic culture; however what he get instead is the self-righteous pontificating of intolerant "Liberals".
    .

    We are intolerant because we tolerate dogs? Do you agree with dead ones opinions on doggy hygiene and diseases?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    would be interesting to hear if similar stories exist in Islamic culture; however what he get instead is the self-righteous pontificating of intolerant "Liberals".
    No we're not. We're getting people who are "intolerant" of the ridiculous nonsense being posted by dead one.

    "Dogs are dirty and here's some scientific evidence in the way of Youtube videos. What? You don't agree with me? Obviously you're all sick and twisted and even I, the benevolent tutor cannot cure you of your sickness."

    Pontification and self-righteousness indeed.

    There are no "liberals" and "conservatives" in this thread. "Liberalism" is not analogous to "being sensible" (Although i'm sure some would wish that it was).


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