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A Question Relating to Dogs and Islam

  • 24-12-2011 03:44AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 620 ✭✭✭mosi


    I am not a Muslim, but am just curious about an issue relating to dogs and Islam.
    From what I can understand (correct me if I am wrong), different Islamic traditions have differing view on the extent to which dogs are considered haram.
    I have read though that the Saluki dog is considered to be different from other dogs and is considered clean in Islam. What I would like to know is if dog breeds that are similar to the Saluki...other sighthounds (aka gazehounds) such as the greyhound...are considered to be clean or are thought of as being haram.
    I know that many other sighthound breeds..the Afghan hound, Azawakh, Sloughi etc have origins in Islamic countries. My own interest in this stems from the fact that my family recently adopted a greyhound and I am curious to know how these dogs are viewed.


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    mosi wrote: »
    I am not a Muslim, but am just curious about an issue relating to dogs and Islam.
    From what I can understand (correct me if I am wrong), different Islamic traditions have differing view on the extent to which dogs are considered haram.
    I have read though that the Saluki dog is considered to be different from other dogs and is considered clean in Islam. What I would like to know is if dog breeds that are similar to the Saluki...other sighthounds (aka gazehounds) such as the greyhound...are considered to be clean or are thought of as being haram.
    I know that many other sighthound breeds..the Afghan hound, Azawakh, Sloughi etc have origins in Islamic countries. My own interest in this stems from the fact that my family recently adopted a greyhound and I am curious to know how these dogs are viewed.

    Islam gives permission to keep dogs for certain purposes, such as hunting, guarding livestock and protecting crops. An analogy has been made for similar purposes or those which are more essential, such as protecting houses from burglars, using them to find drugs and thieves. In any other cases, the one who keeps a dog is subject to the warning of having one or two qiraats deducted from his reward every day.

    Shaykh Yoosuf ibn ‘Abd al-Haadi said, quoting from some of the scholars:

    Undoubtedly the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave permission to keep hunting dogs in several ahaadeeth, and said that keeping a dog for hunting does not detract from one’s reward. In another hadeeth he gave permission to keep a dog for herding livestock, and in another hadeeth for keeping sheep, and in another hadeeth for guarding farms. So it is known that the reason which makes it permissible to keep a dog is when it is for a purpose, and the ruling depends on whether that reason is there or not. If the reason is there, then it is permissible to keep a dog, even though some reasons are more important than agricultural reasons, and some reasons are equally important to those that are mentioned in the texts. Undoubtedly crops come under the same ruling as farms, and cattle come under the same ruling as sheep; guarding chickens and geese – to keep foxes away from them – comes under the same heading as guarding sheep. Undoubtedly the fear of burglars and keeping a dog to warn of them and wake one up is a more important reason; the Lawgiver pays attention to interests and wards off harms; if there is no reason for it then it is wrong. End quote.

    Al-Ighraab fi Ahkaam al-Kilaab (p. 106-107).

    Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    Based on that, a house that is in the middle of the city has no need for a dog to guard it, so keeping a dog for this purpose in such a case is haraam and it is not permissible, and it detracts one or two qiraats from the reward of its owners every day. They should get rid of this dog and not keep it. But if a house is in the countryside and there is no one else around, then it is permissible to keep a dog to guard the house and its occupants; guarding the members of the household is more important than guarding livestock and crops. End quote.

    Majmoo’ Fataawa Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (4/246).

    Secondly:

    Islam does not enjoin anything but that which is good for people, and it does not forbid them anything but that which is harmful to them. But this wisdom is known to those who know it and it is unknown to those who do not know it. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) enjoined washing vessels that have been licked by a dog, and that is only because its saliva is impure. Modern science has proven that there are several harmful things in water from which a dog has drunk. The Muslim who follows the command of sharee’ah has no choice but to obey the command, and refrain from that which is forbidden, even if he does not know the reason behind it and there is nothing wrong with trying to find out the reason behind it, but he should not make his compliance dependent upon knowing the reason.

    Some of these diseases are transmitted because of going against the command of Islam, and eating and drinking from vessels used by dogs, and some of them are transmitted because the dog carries germs that cause these diseases.


    Whatever the case, the Muslim hears and obeys, and goodness is found in responding to sharee’ah by doing what is commanded and avoiding what is forbidden.

    And Allaah knows best.

    http://islamqa.info/en/ref/20939


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    digisky wrote: »
    Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.
    no one is asking anyone to go back, start it today, a life free of germs and bacterias


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    dead one wrote: »


    Some of these diseases are transmitted because of going against the command of Islam

    can you prove this? because all disease has a way of transmitting and none are because of a religion!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    PucaMama wrote: »
    can you prove this? because all disease has a way of transmitting and none are because of a religion!
    did you read the article which I've posted... It has answer to your questions... If there is no need of dog in your house then get rid of it as soon as possible... You want proof here is proof..It's not fun

    I know it stupid to post such video here, but it is related to article why Islam is religion of nature... Thank you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Thats still not passing disease.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Thats still not passing disease.
    Then keep a dog at home, when you will get disease from it.. you will understand.. otherwise there is no way to convince you...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    Then keep a dog at home, when you will get disease from it.. you will understand.. otherwise there is no way to convince you...

    Lots of people have dogs without getting diseases from them. Do you have any non religious sources to back up your claim? What about other animals, do pet turtles or pet mice or horses not also have diseases they could transmit?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    dead one wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Thats still not passing disease.
    Then keep a dog at home, when you will get disease from it.. you will understand.. otherwise there is no way to convince you...
    I'm in fine health and there's dogs sitting next to me on a regular basis. In fact there's indications that dogs improve your immune system... So please, don't post pseudoscience to backup your claims. For the most part, dogs won't have negative impacts upon your health .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    wow, see what religion makes people believe


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,202 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    So let me get this right.
    dead one wrote: »
    eating and drinking from vessels used by dogs, and some of them are transmitted because the dog carries germs that cause these diseases.

    According to the above, one should not eat or drink form vessels used by dogs.

    Are you seriously telling me that it takes an Islamic scholar to tell you that? Considering where a dog's tongue tends to be upon occasion, I would have thought that would be common sense.
    dead one wrote: »
    Then keep a dog at home, when you will get disease from it.. you will understand.. otherwise there is no way to convince you...

    Again, just to clarify, are you saying simply by keeping a dog at home you will get a disease? Or are you saying that by keeping a dog at home and sharing eating utensils you will get a disease?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    So let me get this right.
    According to the above, one should not eat or drink form vessels used by dogs.

    I hate to point out this out, but as the proud owner of a cat, an animal beloved to Muhammed, they occasionally lick their ass and genitals.

    P.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    Seemingly this is something taken quite seriously: (from wikipedia)

    "Sniffer dogs used by police to search mosques and Muslim homes are fitted with leather bootees to cover their paws so that they don't offend Muslims. Muslim prisoners in Britain are given fresh clothes and bedding after sniffer dogs search their cells, because Muslim inmates claim that according to Islamic law they are now unclean. Wardens must hand out replacement sets after random drug searches to avoid religious discrimination claims. The dogs have also been banned from touching copies of the Quran and other religious items"


    I see the application of this is taken seriously, but I cannot understand how a dog can be considered unclean and a cat, which spends hours licking itself and wandering about outside isn't.

    Is a pigeon cleaner than a dog?

    Very hard to penetrate the thinking behind this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    According to the above, one should not eat or drink form vessels used by dogs.

    Are you seriously telling me that it takes an Islamic scholar to tell you that? Considering where a dog's tongue tends to be upon occasion, I would have thought that would be common sense.

    Imams are leaders and guides for Muslims, and have been for centuries, so they take on the role of teaching people what to do, and not do.
    It might seem silly today but 200 years ago it made perfect sense to have this system, the imam passing on lessons learned by others so people wouldn't get sick.

    As to the second paragraph, even in this day and age you see people letting their dogs lick their face and lips. Disgusting I know - common sense doesn't prevail always.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,202 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    biko wrote: »
    Imams are leaders and guides for Muslims, and have been for centuries, so they take on the role of teaching people what to do, and not do.
    It might seem silly today but 200 years ago it made perfect sense to have this system, the imam passing on lessons learned by others so people wouldn't get sick.

    I fully agree. But is what was applicable 200 years ago still applicable? Do religious leaders actually still need to tell people?
    biko wrote: »
    As to the second paragraph, even in this day and age you see people letting their dogs lick their face and lips. Disgusting I know - common sense doesn't prevail always.

    I think there is a big difference between sharing a bowl with a dog and demonstrating affection (not that I would for a minute consider a dog licking my face affection).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    biko wrote: »
    Imams are leaders and guides for Muslims, and have been for centuries, so they take on the role of teaching people what to do, and not do.
    It might seem silly today but 200 years ago it made perfect sense to have this system, the imam passing on lessons learned by others so people wouldn't get sick.

    As to the second paragraph, even in this day and age you see people letting their dogs lick their face and lips. Disgusting I know - common sense doesn't prevail always.

    Silly, is putting it mildly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    dead one wrote: »
    Then keep a dog at home, when you will get disease from it.. you will understand.. otherwise there is no way to convince you...

    Interestingly enough the early Christian Church also forbade people keeping dogs in their houses. "Dog" is an insult in the Christian Scriptures.

    I have known Bahais who kept dogs in their houses though; so some Muslims are more strict about this than others?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    I fully agree. But is what was applicable 200 years ago still applicable? Do religious leaders actually still need to tell people?
    Look at how the Pope teaches people about celibacy; religions are cautious about taking away any rules, as it may cause adverse problems.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 676 ✭✭✭HamletOrHecuba


    the_syco wrote: »
    Look at how the Pope teaches people about celibacy; religions are cautious about taking away any rules, as it may cause adverse problems.

    In what context do you mean the Pope teaches celibacy?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I'm in fine health and there's dogs sitting next to me on a regular basis. In fact there's indications that dogs improve your immune system... So please, don't post pseudoscience to backup your claims. For the most part, dogs won't have negative impacts upon your health .
    See it nice to see you... you have some serious issues...let me see..i have seen dogs eat there own crap..eat dead animals..lick their own butts ..eat spoiled food...etc...why would you want them to lick you??... you're saying dogs improve your immune system, lollzzzz.... Offcourse dirt needs a dirt to improve itself... That's not fault with yourself... Do you know what these dogs in your absence... I guess it is more scientife for you to impove you immune system..

    I guess you should do the same things what these dogs have been doing to improve your immune system.... Rofl


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Lots of people have dogs without getting diseases from them. Do you have any non religious sources to back up your claim? What about other animals, do pet turtles or pet mice or horses not also have diseases they could transmit?
    The case of horse is very different.. They don't wander in you houses as dogs... They don't sh!t everywhere like dogs do..
    It's a long term decaying process... If you don't see some disease in a year or two years, it doesn't people aren't infected with dogs who eat their own sh!t ... You can keep a dog in the lounge for reason... but not inside your house... That's all science..
    darokane wrote: »
    wow, see what religion makes people believe
    Isn't it amazing... At least religion doesn't make people sell their own daughter/sisters/mothers in the name of freedom... Atleast religion doesn't make blue b!tches but chaste and pious women... Religion doesn't make people to sleep with someone else sister/mother... Isn't it amazing... Religion doesn't make people to keep an animal that eats its own sh!t... Isn't it amazing..


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Tom Dunne wrote: »
    Again, just to clarify, are you saying simply by keeping a dog at home you will get a disease? Or are you saying that by keeping a dog at home and sharing eating utensils you will get a disease?
    I am saying the second part of your above quote.. See if you get involved with a dog in your house... like touching it, or the dog is touching your pots etc you will get a disease.. If you keep a dog in open place for a reason like guarding your house then there is nothing wrong in it.. I hope you would get the point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Havermeyer


    From a discussion about dogs, to this..........
    dead one wrote: »
    Isn't it amazing... At least religion doesn't make people sell their own daughter/sisters/mothers in the name of freedom... Atleast religion doesn't make blue b!tches but chaste and pious women... Religion doesn't make people to sleep with someone else sister/mother... Isn't it amazing... Religion doesn't make people to keep an animal that eats its own sh!t... Isn't it amazing..

    ..........in six posts. Wow.

    You've still not backed up any of your claims that by living with dogs you will get diseases.

    Posting videos of dogs eating sh1t on youtube is not science. :(


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    nummnutts wrote: »
    From a discussion about dogs, to this..........


    You've still not backed up any of your claims that by living with dogs you will get diseases.

    Posting videos of dogs eating sh1t on youtube is not science. :(
    Did you see what that dog has been doing... consider it corkfeen's dog and think he has been sitting with it on regular bases.... The dog will improve his immune system..

    Here is proof

    http://www.gopetsamerica.com/dog-health/zoonoses_dogs.aspx


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    dead one wrote: »

    Isn't it amazing... At least religion doesn't make people sell their own daughter/sisters/mothers in the name of freedom... Atleast religion doesn't make blue b!tches but chaste and pious women... Religion doesn't make people to sleep with someone else sister/mother... Isn't it amazing... Religion doesn't make people to keep an animal that eats its own sh!t... Isn't it amazing..

    Religion does make people kill each other though


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    darokane wrote: »
    Religion does make people kill each other though
    guns don't kill people, people kill people... Religion doesn't make people kill each other, its bias/corruption/avarice/pride/honor/dignity/ego...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    dead one wrote: »
    guns don't kill people, people kill people... Religion doesn't make people kill each other, its bias/corruption/avarice/pride/honor/dignity/ego...

    All in the name of religion
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    They don't wander in you houses as dogs...

    Neither do dogs, if you keep them outside or teach them to stay in one room.
    dead one wrote: »
    They don't sh!t everywhere like dogs do..

    Yes they do. Have you never seen a horses stall?
    dead one wrote: »
    It's a long term decaying process... If you don't see some disease in a year or two years, it doesn't people aren't infected with dogs who eat their own sh!t ...

    I've had dogs for most of my life (over twenty years) and I didn't get any diseases from it. I've also never seen a dog eat its own sh*t (which I would have welcomed seeing as it was my job to clean the garden after the dog)
    dead one wrote: »
    That's all science..

    No its not. You haven't justified anything you have claimed with a single piece of independent evidence. You are just making empty claims, which contradict the experiences of anyone who actually has owned a dog. You don't seem to get quite how many people actually keep dogs in the western world, and how closely some of them live with them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,858 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »

    You would assume then, given that there are over 78 million pet dogs in the US alone, that there would be a lot of cases of transmitted diseases then. Could it be that simply keeping your dog clean and healthy (a lot of the diseases mentioned in your link can be avoided by having your dog lice- and tick-free), and washing your hands after handling your dog is enough to combat most of these.

    Incidentally, there are also diseases transmittable by horses, cats and even aquarium fish, so why again aren't these mentioned in the quran?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,413 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    It's one thing to have irrational beliefs; I mean, fair play to you if they're harmless. I still feel weird walking under ladders.

    But it's really really embarrassing when one is reduced to pseudo-science and plain spoofing to back up one's irrational beliefs. Let it go already.

    P.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Corkfeen


    dead one wrote: »
    Corkfeen wrote: »
    I'm in fine health and there's dogs sitting next to me on a regular basis. In fact there's indications that dogs improve your immune system... So please, don't post pseudoscience to backup your claims. For the most part, dogs won't have negative impacts upon your health .
    See it nice to see you... you have some serious issues...let me see..i have seen dogs eat there own crap..eat dead animals..lick their own butts ..eat spoiled food...etc...why would you want them to lick you??... you're saying dogs improve your immune system, lollzzzz.... Offcourse dirt needs a dirt to improve itself... That's not fault with yourself... Do you know what these dogs in your absence... I guess it is more scientife for you to impove you immune system..
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/61316.php
    One example of dogs being beneficial for your health. It's also better to backup your claims rather than posting YouTube videos of dogs eating crap.(Which is highly unusual) Name a few of the diseases that I've picked up from owning a dog? ;) I'd also like to know why the vast majority of the world isn't dropping dead from the diseases which apparently all dogs are spreading.


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